All Scripture Is Towrah

Mr. M

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So you're denying the Holy Spirit? The OT law directs our behavior from the outside; the Holy Spirit directs us from within. It is the basis of Christianity.
There was no such denial. The Holy Spirit is essential to fulfill the righteous requirements of the Word. Yes, it is the basis for Christianity. The basis for the OP is that all scripture continues to instruct us in righteousness.
2 Timothy 3:16. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
inspiration>God-breathed>Holy Spirit>speaking through Paul.
No one is denying the Holy Spirit. Please take all inflamatory accusations elsewhere.
 
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HARK!

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Are you saying that the “He that is without adultery among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” is fake?

Yes, it's a fake story, a forgery. It doesn't appear in any of the early manuscripts. It was added later. Disregard it.
 
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dqhall

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The point of the thread is to receive instruction in righteousness from the Law, even when we don't live under a government that enforces those standards. As I responded to the question:
The point is that even when we don't follow such commands, they remain as instruction in righteousness. We don't have to stone adulterers to comprehend how God feels about adultery. We do have to not commit adultery, or we may face something far worse than stoning.
Matthew 18:8. If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.
As to your question, I know you are being rhetorical, but here in an answer all the same.
Isaiah 33:14. The sinners in Zion are afraid;
Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites:
“Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?
Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?”

What do you think?
Peopl
The concerns are much more than dietary.
Genesis 9:
4 Yea, only flesh with its soul, its blood, you shall not eat.
5 Yea, and your blood for your souls I will require. From the hand of every living animal will I require it, and from the hand of humanity. From the hand of a man's brother I will require the soul of a human.
6 The shedder of the blood of a human, by a human his blood shall be shed, for in the image of the Elohim has He made humanity.
This may beyond our comprehension, but the Word is that blood defiles the land. Man or beast.
Innocent blood is of a particular offense, that must be requited, hence the bloodshed of Revelation. It is a cleansing of the land.
Deuteronomy 19:10. That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.
What do you think of the shedding of innocent animal blood in the temple sacrifices? The prophet wrote, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ Hosea 6:6. God is against sacrificial offering: Matthew 9:13, Hebrews 10:8, Isaiah 1:12, Psalm 51:16, Psalm 40:6, Proverbs 21:3
 
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dqhall

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Yes, it's a fake story, a forgery. It doesn't appear in any of the early manuscripts. It was added later. Disregard it.
Archaeologists found the Book of Joshua is historical fiction.
 
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Mr. M

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Fake story:
Hark!
Scholarly debate about the authenticity of a portion of the narrative doesn't make something "fake".
Are the words attributed to Messiah in this passage consistent with Messiah's message? It is kept in many translations and is worthy of consideration. Yeshua said: "I did not come to condemn the world, but to save it". The day will come when sinners will be dealt with by His Word.
Isaiah 33:14. The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

if the Mosaic law have not been changed, it would be still sinful to work on Sabbath. In one of the books of Moses there is a man who picks up wooden sticks on Sabbath, he is killed. However Jesus allows His 12 disciples to eat on Saturday, He also tells the lame to grab his bed and to walk on Sabbath which is in direct contradiction to this commandment. If the Mosaic law has not been changed, Jesus would not be able to sacrifice Himself on the cross because He is not from a tribe of Levi, only this tribe is allowed to bring sacrifices.

So the Mosaic law had to be changed but not the essence of the law, the essence of the law still remains. For why else would Jesus say in Matthew 5:38-39 38 You have heard it was said'eye for an eye, and tooth for a tooth.' 39But I tell you not to resist an evil person. If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also;…

As New Testament Christians in the New Covenant, The Mosaic Law of the Old Testament was written for the chosen people of Israel. Israel was chosen for a purpose—Genesis 12:1-3. They were God’s instruments to accomplish a plan of rescue for the world: God becoming man as a member of the Jewish race and dying on the cross for man’s crimes against God. They were not chosen to be saved, rather they were chosen to be used to accomplish God’s plan of salvation. Many of those Jews took advantage of the mercy offered through that plan, and many went wayward. Israel’s being chosen did not secure their salvation. It secured a salvation plan for the world, and whether they individually participated in it or not was another question.

Christians are the chosen in the sense that those who are in Christ, putting their trust in Him, are the ones that benefited from that plan of salvation God was working out through Israel. We put our confidence in Him, so we are chosen regarding salvation.

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever because He is God. God doesn’t change, but that does not mean the way He deals with mankind doesn’t change. God dealt with Adam and Eve in one way, and He dealt with the Jews through Abraham with a different plan. He deals with Christians now through a new plan, a new covenant.
 
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Mr. M

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The point is that Yahshua isn't going to tell us something that contradicts YHWH. If he did; then he wasn't who he claimed to be.
Oh, so you are saying that if this had actually occurred, He would have upheld the judgment and approved of the stoning?
John 3:17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 8:11. She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
The point that is most neglected is that while He abstains from condemning, He requires repentance.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Yes, it's a fake story, a forgery. It doesn't appear in any of the early manuscripts. It was added later. Disregard it.

The sin that Jesus speaks of in this verse doesn't speak of sin in general but speaks of a sin that the Iraelites are speaking of in this case the sin of adulutery. So Jesus in this vers is refering to a sin the Israelites are accusing the woman of, and hence they accuse her of adultery, Jesus ultimately says 'who is without the sin of which you accuse this woman of (adultery) let him first cast the stone'
 
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HARK!

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Are the words attributed to Messiah in this passage consistent with Messiah's message?

No.

The Torah makes no mention of a qualifier of sinlessness in order to carry out stonings. It portrays Yahshua as a heretic. Why would the woman have been brought to him? Why wouldn't the man have been with her? Why wouldn't have Yahshua pointed out that to stone her alone would be a violation of the law? It's a fake. None of the earliest manuscripts contain the story. I won't entertain such lies.
 
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Mr. M

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Archaeologists found the Book of Joshua is historical fiction.
Way off topic.
2 Timothy 3:16. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
Please find another place to debate, archeology, ancient documents and the enforcement of Mosaic Law in the present day. Does the Bible instruct us in righteousness or not?
 
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HARK!

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Oh, so you are saying that if this had actually occurred, He would have upheld the judgment and approved of the stoning?

The stoning would have broken the law. There need to be two witnesses; and both the man and the woman need to be stoned together. Whoever faked this story obviously had no regard for the Torah. They didn't even know the Torah.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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The point of this OP is how all the testimony of the Bible is for our instruction in righteousness. Even Levitical law that deals with an old system of animal sacrifices instructs us in regards to the heart of the Father in His judgment of sin, and the precise nature of obedience required.

2 Timothy 3:16. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Sorry, I did miss your original point. Nevertheless I think what I written adds at least a bit to this discussion. I agree about what you wrote here.
 
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Mr. M

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No.

The Torah makes no mention of a qualifier of sinlessness in order to carry out stonings. It portrays Yahshua as a heretic. Why would the woman have been brought to him? Why wouldn't the man have been with her? Why wouldn't have Yahshua pointed out that to stone her alone would be a violation of the law? It's a fake. None of the earliest manuscripts contain the story. I won't entertain such lies.
As always, you are casting the first stone yourself, not understanding these words:
I will have mercy, not sacrifice.
John 3:17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
 
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HARK!

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As always, you are casting the first stone yourself, not understanding these words:
I will have mercy, not sacrifice.
John 3:17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Non sequitur.

Those words have nothing to do with the fake story.

Fake is fake; no matter how much scripture is twisted to support it.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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He changed what man had added to the Law, or what man reinterpreted of the Law.

The Law will be enforced perfectly, and judgment executed truthful and perfect, during the Millennium rein of The Messiah.

Unlike today under man's/satan's laws

He hasn't changed the essence of the law. The Mosaic Law of the Old Testament was written for the chosen people of Israel. Israel was chosen for a purpose—Genesis 12:1-3. They were God’s instruments to accomplish a plan of rescue for the world: God becoming man as a member of the Jewish race and dying on the cross for man’s crimes against God. They were not chosen to be saved, rather they were chosen to be used to accomplish God’s plan of salvation. Many of those Jews took advantage of the mercy offered through that plan, and many went wayward. Israel’s being chosen did not secure their salvation. It secured a salvation plan for the world, and whether they individually participated in it or not was another question.

Christians are the chosen in the sense that those who are in Christ, putting their trust in Him, are the ones that benefited from that plan of salvation God was working out through Israel. We put our confidence in Him, so we are chosen regarding salvation.

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever because He is God. God doesn’t change, but that does not mean the way He deals with mankind doesn’t change. God dealt with Adam and Eve in one way, and He dealt with the Jews through Abraham with a different plan. He deals with Christians now through a new plan, a new covenant.

There was a unique relationship God had with the nation of Israel as part of the execution of that plan. There is a unique kind of plan that He has in the new covenant that's expressed through Jesus and what He did on the cross.

God changes a lot of different things. He can make plans and play things out so that certain things apply in some cases and don’t apply later, though His purpose is constant and unchanging.

The Mosaic Covenant is a treaty God made with the Jews, the nation of Israel. What was the point of the book of Deuteronomy? Deuteronomy is the second time the law is given. It is first given in Exodus when Moses is at Mount Sinai. There’s 40 years of wandering and the first generation dies away. Then there’s a new generation that takes the land under Joshua. Before Moses dies he gives that same law again a second time in Deuteronomy to the new generation that is now meant to take the land and live according to this law as a nation. The important thing is that this is an agreement that God made with Israel. It is not an agreement God made with anyone else.

Nothing that is in the Mosaic Law applies to me as a Gentile in virtue of it being in the Mosaic Law. No command is incumbent upon me in virtue of being part of the law.

The Mosaic covenant is like a state law. It was given to those people in that state for that period of time. We are in a different state now. We have a different covenant that applies to us—the new covenant with different obligations. We are not obliged by everything in the Mosaic Law. That was a set of civil obligations that were applicable to those people in that nation. It was made between God and Moses and Israel. God took them out of the land, He rescued them, and they were obligated to Him as their Sovereign. They had to keep the terms of the covenant. If they did, He would protect them, and if they didn’t, He would forsake them (Deuteronomy 28). There are blessings and curses in the Mosaic Covenant meant for Israel.

The Mosaic contract is no longer in force. It has been replaced for everyone, including Jews, by the new contract. The new contract is a new enterprise. Gentiles were never under the old contract. Now, Jews and Gentiles alike who put their faith in Jesus are under the new contract.

Does that mean we can go around murdering people because we’re not under the Mosaic Law? No. The obligation not to murder is universal and should be in any law. Just as our law does, the Mosaic Law included universal moral principles. So we are obligated to follow those moral rules, not in virtue of them being in the Mosaic law, but because they are universal for all people. The Mosaic law included universal moral rules and rules that were limited to the nation who lived under that contract. We have to distinguish between these as we consider how we relate to the Mosaic covenant now.
 
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Mr. M

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The Torah makes no mention of a qualifier of sinlessness in order to carry out stonings. It portrays Yahshua as a heretic. Why would the woman have been brought to him? Why wouldn't the man have been with her? Why wouldn't have Yahshua pointed out that to stone her alone would be a violation of the law? It's a fake. None of the earliest manuscripts contain the story. I won't entertain such lies.
Yeshua does not quote Moses in making His qualifier "Let him who is without sin". This is His own interpretation, and consistent with how He routinely dealt with the hypocrisy of the Pharisees who were always trying to trap Him. He was already condemned for allowing a "sinner woman" to touch Him, washing His feet with her tears, and drying with her hair. You are failing to see the motive. The Law required those who testified as witnesses to cast the first stone.
A group of religious leaders made the accusation together, none identified themselves as witnesses. The narrative says they were trying to tempt Him. In what way?
The narrative does not make Yeshua out to be a heretic any more than Him saying that you commit adultery in your heart.
 
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Mr. M

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Again, your opinion and a wikipedia article doesn't make anything fake, or heretical.
Get back on point. This isn't about John 8 authenticity, it is about instruction in righteousness.
Did you gather your omer of manna this morning?
 
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dqhall

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Way off topic.
2 Timothy 3:16. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
Please find another place to debate, archeology, ancient documents and the enforcement of Mosaic Law in the present day. Does the Bible instruct us in righteousness or not?
Why did the Jews want to stone Jesus for working on the Sabbath? Are you a follower of Christ, or needing to stone people for working on Saturday because you think that is required by scripture? Why did the chief priests want Jesus executed? They claimed Jesus did Sabbath desecration and blasphemy. They cited the Torah as their justification for killing him as if it contained no errors. Within forty years the Roman army laid siege to Jerusalem, their temple was destroyed, Jerusalem was burned, Jewish people in Jerusalem were killed or captured and led into Roman slavery. This was not good. It happened to a rebellious people.
 
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HARK!

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Yeshua does not quote Moses in making His qualifier "Let him who is without sin". This is His own interpretation, and consistent with how He routinely dealt with the hypocrisy of the Pharisees who were always trying to trap Him. He was already condemned for allowing a "sinner woman" to touch Him, washing His feet with her tears, and drying with her hair. You are failing to see the motive. The Law required those who testified as witnesses to cast the first stone.
A group of religious leaders made the accusation together, none identified themselves as witnesses. The narrative says they were trying to tempt Him. In what way?
The narrative does not make Yeshua out to be a heretic any more than Him saying that you commit adultery in your heart.

Again, fake is fake. I won't try to justify the lies. The person who wrote that forgery should be stoned to death under the Torah.

Yahshua came to magnify the law. He didn't come to abolish it. His own words tell us the latter.

I won't support false doctrine.
 
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Mr. M

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The stoning would have broken the law. There need to be two witnesses; and both the man and the woman need to be stoned together. Whoever faked this story obviously had no regard for the Torah. They didn't even know the Torah.
And yet it was totally consistent with the scribes and the Pharisees, and there attempts to twist the scriptures to trap Messiah. I guess that point went over your head.
Psalm 18:26. With the pure You will show Yourself pure;
And with the devious You will show Yourself shrewd.
 
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