LDS Mormon gods

Jamesone5 said:

"That spirit" in answer to the Holy Spirit I was referring to? You did, after all,
respond to me.

I am going with the True Holy Spirit that tells me JS was a false prophet---Jamesone5

Your response:

He is the way said: ↑
That spirit lied to you.

And then you say

It was not the Holy Spirit, it was another spirit. ---he is the Way

It certainly appears as if the Holy Spirit lied to me or another spirit entirely.

Seems like you are trying very hard to avoid blasphemy when I and Phoebe Ann brought it up.


It was about JS being a false prophet anyway.

You cannot even get your defenses straight. And it does pay to read what you are responding to

I could care less whether you believe I have the Holy Spirit or not, because to me, you are nothing more that a random voice on the Internet. And then, it seems you have nothing to further defend about your false Church led by your false prophet---so you make it about petty matters.

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He is the way said:

Having a spirit that lies to you is no petty matter. It throws your judgement completely out of kilter.

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Jamesone5 said:

Sorry we talk about JS and what you said---without deflecting.

How could JS write 5 different stories if he was dead in the first place?

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Peter1000 said:

Seriously, did you say you were a Mormon once?

JS wrote with his own hand 2 accounts of the first vision. Then, like I say, he was interviewed by people and had conversations with people and these people wrote down what he said about the first vision.

So there are many accounts of what JS said about the first vision, all recorded before his death.

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Jamesone5 said:

Who is talking about judgement of you? I am just pointing out things that you said and tried to take back.

You have to answer to Christ anyway--not me.

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He is the way said:

You said: "You have to answer to Christ anyway--not me."

What makes you think you are exempt?:

(New Testament | 1 Peter 1:17)

17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:


(New Testament | Revelation 20:12 - 13)

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

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Jamesone5 said:

No, I am not exempt. Why would you insert that?

You speaking for me---yet again?

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He is the way said:

You are the one listening to a lying spirit, not me. Therefore you will have to answer to Christ.

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Jamesone5 said:

I carry that statement as a badge of honor---A Mormon who claims I have a lying spirit because I do not agree with him on matters of Faith.

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He is the way said:

So you deny that John Taylor and Willard Richards were in the Jail with Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith? History says different:

"Joseph reached his pistol through the door, which was pushed a little ajar, and fired three of the barrels; the rest missed fire. He wounded three of the assailants—two mortally—one of whom, as he rushed down out of the door, was asked if he was badly hurt. He replied, “Yes; my arm is shot all to pieces by Old Joe; but I don’t care, I’ve got revenge; I shot Hyrum!”

Elder Taylor took a position beside the door, with Elder Richards, and parried off their muskets with walking sticks as they were firing.

What must have been the feelings of General Smith, at this critical juncture! He had fired all of the barrels of his pistol that would discharge; he had therefore no further means of defense. His brother, whose life he had been so anxious to preserve, lay a corpse before him, and his assailants were filling the door with muskets and firing showers of lead into the room.

Elder Taylor continued parrying their guns, until they had got them about half the length into the room, when he found resistance vain and attempted to jump out of the window. Just then a ball from within struck him on the left thigh; hitting the bone, it glanced through to within half an inch of the other side. He fell on the window-sill and expected he would fall out, when a ball from without stuck his watch, which he carried in his vest pocket, and threw him back into the room. He was hit by two more balls; one injuring his left wrist considerably, and the other entering at the side of the bone, just below the left knee. He fell into the room, and rolled under a bed that stood at the right of the window, in the south-east corner of the room. While under the bed, he was fired at several times and was struck by one ball which tore the flesh on his left hip in a shocking manner, throwing large quantities of blood upon the wall and floor. These wounds proved very severe and painful, but he suffered without a murmur, rejoicing that he had the satisfaction to mingle his blood with that of the Prophets, and be with them in the last moments of their earthly existence. His blood, with theirs, can cry to heaven for vengeance on those who have shed the blood of innocence and slain the servants of the living God in all ages of the world. This seemed a source of high gratification and he endured his severe sufferings without a single complaint, being perfectly resigned to the providence of God.

Elder Richards was still contending with the assailants, at the door, when General Smith, seeing there was no safety in the room, and probably thinking it might save the lives of others if he could escape from the room, turned calmly from the door, dropped his pistol upon the floor, saying, “There, defend yourselves as well as you can.”

He sprang into the window; but just as he was preparing to descend, he saw such an array of bayonets below that he caught by the window casing, where he hung by his hands and feet, with his head to the north, feet to the south, and his body swinging downwards. He hung in that position three or four minutes, during which time he exclaimed, two or three times, “O, LORD, MY GOD!!!” and fell to the ground. While he was hanging in that position, Col. Williams hallooed, “Shoot him! G-d d—n him! Shoot the dam’d rascal!” However, none fired at him."

From: An Eyewitness Account by William M. Daniels

You said the spirit told you different that it was only Joseph and Hyrum in the jail. Eye witness accounts say otherwise.

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Jamesone5 said:

Who cares whether there was no one in the Jail with them or even 10 people? I have seen enough eyewitness accounts that tell me there was no one in that Jail with the two Smiths.

The basic fact that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and did not trust God in the end is THE measurement. Either way, he still died as the coward he was. That is what the Holy Spirit is telling me.

You act like arguing these minor matters will magically make him somehow a true prophet of God. Like putting lipstick on a pig.

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He is the way said:

The spirit you are listening to is NOT the Holy Ghost. John Taylor was shot by the mob at Carthage jail and as William M. Daniels said: "His brother, whose life he had been so anxious to preserve, lay a corpse before him, and his assailants were filling the door with muskets and firing showers of lead into the room. Joseph Smith was doing his best to protect his brother and died a hero.

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Jamesone5 said:

And the Holy Sprit which you said "lied to me" tells me JS was/is a false prophet.

And according to your source, his brother was Hyrum, my not-by-blood ancestor. He was not trying to protect anyone but Hyrum. And of course, you inserted elsewhere that he tried to protect the others. Also the jail is not just one room so you have proved absolutely nothing here.



And I got to laugh at your so-called proof as if no one would lie to make their prophet at least look like less that the coward he was. Not a so-called hero--but a coward with a gun to try to defend himself.

Where was his God he otherwise proclaimed?

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He is the way said:

I believe that Joseph Smith was doing his best to protect everyone in the jail from the mob as well as his brother Hyrum. The mob had been fed lies by Satan and Joseph Smith was killed like the other prophets of God. John Taylor was also shot by the mob. The prophesy given to Willard Richards was fulfilled. Joseph sealed his testimony with his death. The Book of Mormon is true and a marvelous work and a wonder.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 25:26)

26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.

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Jamesone5 said:

You have me intrigued by your differing stories of What the Holy Spirit lied to me about.

Here you tell me it was cell they were in:


You were deceived already by your spirit that told you that Joseph and Hyrum were the only ones in the cell at Carthage jail. You have the wrong spirit----he is the way

And then you claim it was the complete Jail--a 2 story structure:

I believe that Joseph Smith was doing his best to protect everyone in the jail from the mob as well as his brother Hyrum----he is the Way

Pretty sad when you cannot even get you defenses consistent and then tell me you only believe {opinion} the claims he was supposedly protecting everybody else.

And then the bit about the mob being fed lies by satan----you have proof of this?
As well as definitely no proof that he died like other prophets of God. First off, the other prophets were not killed by guns and certainly none died defending themselves. But you, as a Mormon, will try to embellish your prophet that you hold so dear in your testimonies.

Seems as you still have nothing in which to make whatever case you are trying to prove here. Seems as if the Holy Spirit did not lie to me at all as to him NOT being a prophet of God.

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He is the way said:

The spirit that spoke to you was certainly NOT the Holy Spirit. Joseph and Hyrum were not alone. John Taylor and Willard Richards were there also. You are trying to wiggle out what you said, but it won't work. All of the accounts and of what happened at Carthage prove you and your spirit wrong. How can anyone trust a spirit that does not tell the truth? The Book of Mormon is of God, so why do you despise it?

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Jamesone5 said:

Some people will NOT see defeat when it is evident but evidently you are too proud to accept defeat.

And here is the post that I researched that you say I supposedly claimed that Joseph Smith and brother Hyrum were the only ones in the cell


Jamesone5 said: ↑
God's Holy Spirit tells me I am right.

Then you have the wrong spirit because it is well known that Joseph and Hyrum were not the only ones in the Carthage jail when they were murdered. John Taylor was badly wounded during the attack----he is the Way

[post 130 from How many negative charges has been made about JS character in LDS History? Just, curious.] ​

You were arguing your point when I was arguing that Joseph Smith is a false prophet who obviously could not endure the end as his [and Your]false Articles of Faith attests to.

You essentially made up your own dialogue and continue to run with it

I checked myself---how about you and all the wild claims against me and the Holy Spirit I claim?

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dzheremi said:

It's been a while since I've read up on it, but I don't think the Sahidic Bible was completely translated until about the 3rd-4th century. The earliest documents we have of Christianity in Egypt are in Greek (the language of the Hellenized elite at Alexandria), and we don't begin to see evidence of Greek-Coptic bilingualism in Christian papyri until about the middle of the second century (see here Aziz S. Atiya's The Copts and Christian Civilization, 1979), when the earliest Coptic translations of the Bible begin to appear (NB: this is still about three centuries before the Greek Received Text, and comparable to the second-century translation of the Bible into Syriac, making Coptic one of the first languages into which the Bible was translated). The period before the third century is generally referred to as "Old Coptic", which is not really a unified language or identifiable dialect but instead a sort of wastebasket category for forms of writing that are essentially very early attempts to render Egyptian in Greek characters, showing inconsistent adoption of the Demotic signs (ϣ ϥ ϧ ϩ ϫ ϭ ϯ -- these represent sounds not found in Greek, so they needed signs of their own) and little thematic relation to the later Christian texts that we begin to see in the third century, which is one of the ways we can trace the Christianization of Egypt.



I don't think so, based on what Dr. Ritner has said in the interview included in the first video, but I have not read his book or watched the full documentary from which those interview snippets were taken. I agree with what he says, though, that it doesn't really make sense that an entire intrusive text would be found on the papyri, because that's something beyond a mismatch between the drawing and the text -- that's an abrupt and complete change in the text itself, which is not motivated by anything.

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Jamesone5 said:

Some people will NOT see defeat when it is evident but evidently you are too proud to accept defeat.

And here is the post that I researched that you say I supposedly claimed that Joseph Smith and brother Hyrum were the only ones in the cell


Jamesone5 said: ↑
God's Holy Spirit tells me I am right.

Then you have the wrong spirit because it is well known that Joseph and Hyrum were not the only ones in the Carthage jail when they were murdered. John Taylor was badly wounded during the attack----he is the Way

[post 130 from How many negative charges has been made about JS character in LDS History? Just, curious.] ​

You were arguing your point when I was arguing that Joseph Smith is a false prophet who obviously could not endure the end as his [and Your]false Articles of Faith attests to.

You essentially made up your own dialogue and continue to run with it

I checked myself---how about you and all the wild claims against me and the Holy Spirit I claim?

Click to expand...

Jamesone5 said:

Some people will NOT see defeat when it is evident but evidently you are too proud to accept defeat.

And here is the post that I researched that you say I supposedly claimed that Joseph Smith and brother Hyrum were the only ones in the cell


Jamesone5 said: ↑
God's Holy Spirit tells me I am right.

Then you have the wrong spirit because it is well known that Joseph and Hyrum were not the only ones in the Carthage jail when they were murdered. John Taylor was badly wounded during the attack----he is the Way

[post 130 from How many negative charges has been made about JS character in LDS History? Just, curious.] ​

You were arguing your point when I was arguing that Joseph Smith is a false prophet who obviously could not endure the end as his [and Your]false Articles of Faith attests to.

You essentially made up your own dialogue and continue to run with it

I checked myself---how about you and all the wild claims against me and the Holy Spirit I claim?

Click to expand...