Was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Cribstyl · May 6, 2020

Studyman said:
No disrespect, but I'm sticking to the Holy scriptures.

Jesus said:"Think not that I came to destroy the Law and Prophets". Yet the very foundation of the religion you are promoting is founded in that very "thought".

Those who quote that text don't get the fact that Jesus is talking about not changing what's written in the books of the law (Genesis through Deuteronomy). but you're talking about not changing the ten commandments.
Moses said that God would raise up a prophet like himself and everyone would listen to Him.

Many teach that God's Word in the Holy Scriptures can't be trusted anymore. But Paul certainly didn't think so.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

2 Tim. 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And neither did Jesus;

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

And again:

Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

I disagree that Jesus turned God's Law off because HE said just the opposite. I don't believe Jesus destroyed HIS Father's definition of sin. It is clear you have been convinced that HE has so it would be vain to continue.

I do appreciate the discussion though.

Those text does not say the law is turned on under the New Covenant.
Jesus said;

Luk 16:16

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

YouAreAwesome · May 6, 2020

Andre_b said:
God said this before giving the 10 Commandments:
Deuteronomy 5:3 “The Lord >>made not this covenant with our fathers<<, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.”

I know in Genesis it says that the 7th day was sanctified and made holy but clearly Deut 5:3 says that this specific covenant was not made with the fathers which then a few verses later reads the 10 commandments following. It seems there were separate covenants.

Doesn't this say that the 10 commandments were not there prior to Moses including the 4th? I know we see examples of some of the 10 commandments, and the 4th is shown in Exodus 16 right before 10 commandments with the manna as the first time we see it clearly.

The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers. It seems pretty clear. How do we reconcile this?

Sorry, I missed it. What are you trying to reconcile? Is it how the Sabbath was introduced to Moses as recorded in Exodus 16:23 but the Ten Commandments were given in chapter 20? This is my understanding of it but I'd be happy to be corrected. When a covenant is made there is a body of literature that goes with it. The literature includes the history, songs, artwork etc. that occur while the two nations walk out their covenant together. Exodus includes the history of the covenant God made with the Israelite people known as the Mosaic Covenant. Thus, Exodus 16:23 is the introduction of the Sabbath even though in Exodus 20 we see God write it as a Ten Commandment law.

klutedavid · May 6, 2020

Studyman said:
="klutedavid, post: 74965309, member: 343781"

You preach "Nothing changed regarding the High Priest Himself"

But the Scriptures say:

"For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are (Already) priests that offer gifts according to the law:

And again;

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

No disrespect, but I'm sticking to the Holy scriptures.

The scripture tells us that Jesus was the High Priest in the order of Melchizedek. Way before the Levite priesthood began.

Hebrews 7:11
Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further
need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:15
And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:17
For it is attested of Him, “You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.”

Hebrews 7:24
But Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.

Hebrews 7:26
For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens.

Hebrews 10:21
And since we have a great priest over the house of God...

The priesthood of Jesus was connected with Melchizedek and is above the law and apart from the law. The Levite law was annulled, the sacrifices were annulled, the temple was annulled.

Jesus said:"Think not that I came to destroy the Law and Prophets". Yet the very foundation of the religion you are promoting is founded in that very "thought".

Jesus did not destroy the law, Jesus fulfilled everything the law and prophets spoke about. The law was absolutely annulled by it's perfect fulfillment in Christ.

The law still acts in making someone aware of what sin is but is weak and useless. As far as sanctification or salvation is concerned.

Many teach that God's Word in the Holy Scriptures can't be trusted anymore. But Paul certainly didn't think so.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

I believe everything that concerns Jesus Christ of which the scripture stands as the witness.

Studyman · May 7, 2020

pasifika said:
Thank you, Ezekiel 36:27, state that God is the one who put His Spirit in His people to make them to walk according to His ways..so there is also a spirit that makes people disobey Him continuously.

EZ. 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Who are the heathen?

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Can you show me where these people are? Who and where are these people who "walk in His Statutes and Judgments"? Was Zechariahs one of these people?

I really wish you would return the kindness I have showed you and answer the questions I ask you.

I didn't say there wasn't judgement before Sinai, the world in the time of Noah was judge and Noah and His family were saved...

Why was Noah saved?

Gen. 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

How did Noah know what being "Just" was? Did all men know? Or did God withhold HIS justice and judgment from all those other people, and then slaughter them because they weren't Just?

It's a perfectly relevant question. Please answer.

Yes, God's law is Spirit, but is Not the law that needed saving it's the people who are under the power of sin...so the law cannot impart life to us who are Dead in our sins. It was the Spirit who gives life to our bodies....

Why do we need saved? It is because we Transgressed God's Commandments, YES? You are right there is NO LAW that can take away our rejection of God and HIS Words. But we can be forgiven our rejection and rebellion, and given a new chance to respect HIM. Why would we continue to "transgress God's Commandments" after Jesus shed HIS Blood to cleanse us from the first time we rejected and rebelled against HIM?

Paul says it better than I.

Rom. 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, (Transgression of God's Laws, Iniquity, Rebellion, Disrespect) that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. (That means NO!) How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

So you do know the things we learned about God are not earhly things but heavenly wisdom...so why some knows and others don't? Isn't it because you must be taught by someone who comes from heaven?

Absolutely!! "Taught by someone who comes down from heaven" That is my whole point. There are two voices at work in our world. One is the Lord's Voice, the Word of God which became Flesh, the creator of all things. The other voice is NOT the Lord from heaven.

The Lord from Heaven says:

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

These people are giving the Lord from heaven all the credit for their life's choices. They are claiming everything they did, they "did unto the Lord". They obviously believed Jesus was Lord, because they did all in HIS NAME.

And yet Jesus didn't accept them? Why? I mean, why did the Lord from Heaven say these men were rejected? I'm not interested in what the "other voice" teaches on this matter, but what did Jesus, the true Lord from heaven, tell us why HE rejected them?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These religious men who called Jesus Lord, Lord, continued to rebel against and Transgress God's Commandments even after they "heard Him".

So then I wonder, why would these "MANY" folks spend their life following a religious way, in which Jesus is called their Lord, that leads to their own destruction?

But you answered the question already. They were taught a religion, they just were not "Taught by someone who comes down from heaven"

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

The Lord knows those who are His...

The Lord knows, but we live by Faith and Hope.

2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Same thing 1 John 2 says that I posted for you, but you didn't address.

YouAreAwesome · May 7, 2020

Studyman said:
How did Noah know what being "Just" was?

His conscience.

Romans 2:14-16
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them. This will come to pass on that day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.

Did all men know?

Yes

Studyman · May 7, 2020

YouAreAwesome said:
Really? Which posters in this thread teach the Bible can't be trusted? I am of the understanding we all believe the Bible can be trusted, but rather, we interpret a few things differently.

Yes, it seems some interpret a few verses to imply that the Whole Bible can't be trusted, at least a large portion of it.

I was responding to a religious man who is trying to convince me that the Laws of the God of the OT and the instruction to keep them, have been "Switched off".

Implying that I can no longer trust these instructions, therefore my statement regarding religious men who do not believe the Whole Bible can be trusted.

I'm glad you believe the Bible can be trusted.

Studyman · May 7, 2020

YouAreAwesome said:
His conscience.

Romans 2:14-16
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them. This will come to pass on that day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.

Yes

Interesting point. I think Rom. 2 is a perfect place to help understand the story of Noah.

Rom. 2:
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

So this aligns perfectly with the Noah and the world that perished account. Noah "worketh good" (a Just man), while the rest of the world "doeth evil" (evil continually)..

OK, I'm on board so far.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

OK, this covers a lot. I believe that Noah knew God's Laws, given he had a personal relationship with God, and they were friends and all. It seems God would not want Noah to make the same mistakes Cain and Eve made.

You don't. You apparently believe Noah was a Gentile who didn't know God's Laws. But Paul is including them in his teaching as well, so our small difference of opinion here is covered by Paul. It doesn't matter if Noah knew God's Laws or not. If he followed God's definition of Just and Good, then he was just.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Personally I believe Noah turned to God and learned from Him, while the rest of the world followed the way of Cain, and Eve and listened to the "other religious voices" in the land. But even if you are right, and Noah was a Gentile "without God's Law", HE was still judged by the things he DID, as Paul teaches "Who will render to every man according to his deeds:"

As it is written in another place;

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

So it seems this clarifies the difference between Noah and the world that perished perfectly.

I do have a question for you though.

Why didn't the other men of the land's conscious direct them into the righteousness of Noah? You said they both would have known God's definition of "Just" by nature?

"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Great discussion, good point. Thank you for it.

Studyman · May 7, 2020

klutedavid said:
The scripture tells us that Jesus was the High Priest in the order of Melchizedek. Way before the Levite priesthood began.

So then before Jesus became a man HE was Melchizedek, the High Priest of God?

The priesthood of Jesus was connected with Melchizedek and is above the law and apart from the law.

So Melchizedek taught the same Gospel as Jesus?

The Levite law was annulled, the sacrifices were annulled, the temple was annulled. Jesus did not destroy the law, Jesus fulfilled everything the law and prophets spoke about. The law was absolutely annulled by it's perfect fulfillment in Christ.

So everything that the Law and Prophets teach about the Messiah has already been fulfilled?

The law still acts in making someone aware of what sin is but is weak and useless. As far as sanctification or salvation is concerned.I believe everything that concerns Jesus Christ of which the scripture stands as the witness.

Well if Jesus is the High Priest from the very beginning, then exactly what part of the Scriptures doesn't concern HIM?

Cribstyl · May 7, 2020

Studyman said:
Yes, it seems some interpret a few verses to imply that the Whole Bible can't be trusted, at least a large portion of it.

I was responding to a religious man who is trying to convince me that the Laws of the God of the OT and the instruction to keep them, have been "Switched off".

Implying that I can no longer trust these instructions, therefore my statement regarding religious men who do not believe the Whole Bible can be trusted.

I'm glad you believe the Bible can be trusted.

LoL, I'm not sure if you're talking about me or not. I'll be that guy. You keep repeating that some are saying the bible cannot be trusted.
It would take some maturity to admit that no one here said or imply the bible cannot be trusted.
I trust the bible with all my soul, but I'm not in agreement with your understanding. The irony of it all is, you're leading all the dialog by asking questions and presenting commentary that drags multiple scriptures to make your arguments. God's word is true, but how you present it is debatable at best.

All you're doing is talking about the law where God's word is not. When we post scriptures saying; We're not under the law, you take offense and say that we're saying "don't trust God's word". You don't directly respond to what we post. So you're not proving anything. When we respond to what you post you asks more questions unrelated to our response or the scriptures you first posted.

pasifika · May 7, 2020

Studyman said:
EZ. 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Who are the heathen?

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Can you show me where these people are? Who and where are these people who "walk in His Statutes and Judgments"? Was Zechariahs one of these people?

I really wish you would return the kindness I have showed you and answer the questions I ask you.

Why was Noah saved?

Gen. 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

How did Noah know what being "Just" was? Did all men know? Or did God withhold HIS justice and judgment from all those other people, and then slaughter them because they weren't Just?

It's a perfectly relevant question. Please answer.

Why do we need saved? It is because we Transgressed God's Commandments, YES? You are right there is NO LAW that can take away our rejection of God and HIS Words. But we can be forgiven our rejection and rebellion, and given a new chance to respect HIM. Why would we continue to "transgress God's Commandments" after Jesus shed HIS Blood to cleanse us from the first time we rejected and rebelled against HIM?

Paul says it better than I.

Rom. 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, (Transgression of God's Laws, Iniquity, Rebellion, Disrespect) that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. (That means NO!) How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Absolutely!! "Taught by someone who comes down from heaven" That is my whole point. There are two voices at work in our world. One is the Lord's Voice, the Word of God which became Flesh, the creator of all things. The other voice is NOT the Lord from heaven.

The Lord from Heaven says:

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

These people are giving the Lord from heaven all the credit for their life's choices. They are claiming everything they did, they "did unto the Lord". They obviously believed Jesus was Lord, because they did all in HIS NAME.

And yet Jesus didn't accept them? Why? I mean, why did the Lord from Heaven say these men were rejected? I'm not interested in what the "other voice" teaches on this matter, but what did Jesus, the true Lord from heaven, tell us why HE rejected them?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These religious men who called Jesus Lord, Lord, continued to rebel against and Transgress God's Commandments even after they "heard Him".

So then I wonder, why would these "MANY" folks spend their life following a religious way, in which Jesus is called their Lord, that leads to their own destruction?

But you answered the question already. They were taught a religion, they just were not "Taught by someone who comes down from heaven"

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Hello, you can say a heathens are those you does not believe or worship the God of Israel...
That is not the point why I quote Ezekiel 36:24...I quoted to show why some perished and some Not in Sinai, those whom God gave His Spirit are those you walk according to His ways...and it’s the same way from the beginning until the end...

Yes, Zachariah was a righteous man meaning He believe in God Not through the law but through the grace of God ( through His Spirit) just like all other righteous man from Abel until the2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Same thing 1 John 2 says that I posted for you, but you didn't address.

Hello, Heathens are people, nations etc who doesn’t believe or worship the God of Israel...
The reason I quote Ezekiel 36:24, is to show why other perish and others Not in Sinai...is the Spirit of God that causes people to follow His ways...
This are Israelites people of God...there is only one people and they are Israel (spiritual people)..

Zachariah is a righteous man, just like Abel, Noah, Abraham or whoever believes in God through Christ...was Zechariah one of those people? You mean an Israelite? Yes, there is only 1 people..

why was Noah saved? Because Noah knows God and God knew Him. believing in God through good news about Christ, how do I know this? Because the bible says that Noah is a righteous man...and righteous are those who live their lives according to their faith, and faith comes from the knowledge of Christ...Romans 10
So how can Noah know God while God lives in heaven? Isn’t through the Spirit of God..

Did all man know how to live just...of course yes? So why they didn’t live like Noah...because the Spirit of Christ is Not in them...1John 3...those who are born of God will Not continue to Sin because Gods seed remains in them....were they sin before yes of course, but they grow mature in their understanding and turn away from their evil...
So, everyone will know how to do good, but Not everyone will be able to continually doing good unless Christ live in them...

why do we need saved? Because we are sinners therefore we are slave to sin, and if we are sinners then death is our reward..God didn’t create us to be slave to someone else but to belong to Him alone..
Can we live a sinless life apart from Jesus? No! Absolutely Not...that why Jesus came...sin is stronger, and more powerful then man so when Adam disobey God and Sin enter our world, then there is No Hope for Adam and his descendants...Unless someone more powerful then sin comes to rescue mankind...

so what God gave to Adam after the fall is about the message of the Saviour to come, the good news for mankind Genesis 3:15...

So instead of giving the law God gave them Hope through the coming of the saviour...as Paul says that through this Hope purified our hearts just as he is pure...that means cleansing of our conscience...so we can know our God...

The law doesn’t changed our evil ways, because our evil ways comes from the sin who lives in us...even we know the good to do we are guaranteed to do the opposite...see Romans...
So why was the law given anyway? So people can know the enemy “sin” (seed of devil)..

Faith made complete by our actions, our actions as the result of God working in us on the basis of our knowledge of God...
Different from the works of the law...because that works comes from you alone apart from God’s works in you..Philippians 3:8-11, also see how the Sinai covenant was instituted ie who gives and who works...

Matthew 7:22...is what those who profess to know God without actions to uphold that claim...

verse 23...those that works iniquity...
Not about law is about faith without the actions that must accompany that faith...

1John2..if you referring to the commands then John mention the commandments...to believe in the name of His Son, and to love others...if you look at those commandments the first one is to believe in Jesus, that is from the good news from Genesis, and the second is our love or is the results of our belief that we shows to others that is our actions...so we can put this in one sentence which is Faith express through Love...

try to answer as honest as I can. Let me know if I miss one..so we can share..thanks, sorry about the grammar...

Andre_b · May 7, 2020

pasifika said:
Hello, Heathens are people, nations etc who doesn’t believe or worship the God of Israel...
The reason I quote Ezekiel 36:24, is to show why other perish and others Not in Sinai...is the Spirit of God that causes people to follow His ways...
This are Israelites people of God...there is only one people and they are Israel (spiritual people)..

Zachariah is a righteous man, just like Abel, Noah, Abraham or whoever believes in God through Christ...was Zechariah one of those people? You mean an Israelite? Yes, there is only 1 people..

why was Noah saved? Because Noah knows God and God knew Him. believing in God through good news about Christ, how do I know this? Because the bible says that Noah is a righteous man...and righteous are those who live their lives according to their faith, and faith comes from the knowledge of Christ...Romans 10
So how can Noah know God while God lives in heaven? Isn’t through the Spirit of God..

Did all man know how to live just...of course yes? So why they didn’t live like Noah...because the Spirit of Christ is Not in them...1John 3...those who are born of God will Not continue to Sin because Gods seed remains in them....were they sin before yes of course, but they grow mature in their understanding and turn away from their evil...
So, everyone will know how to do good, but Not everyone will be able to continually doing good unless Christ live in them...

why do we need saved? Because we are sinners therefore we are slave to sin, and if we are sinners then death is our reward..God didn’t create us to be slave to someone else but to belong to Him alone..
Can we live a sinless life apart from Jesus? No! Absolutely Not...that why Jesus came...sin is stronger, and more powerful then man so when Adam disobey God and Sin enter our world, then there is No Hope for Adam and his descendants...Unless someone more powerful then sin comes to rescue mankind...

so what God gave to Adam after the fall is about the message of the Saviour to come, the good news for mankind Genesis 3:15...

So instead of giving the law God gave them Hope through the coming of the saviour...as Paul says that through this Hope purified our hearts just as he is pure...that means cleansing of our conscience...so we can know our God...

The law doesn’t changed our evil ways, because our evil ways comes from the sin who lives in us...even we know the good to do we are guaranteed to do the opposite...see Romans...
So why was the law given anyway? So people can know the enemy “sin” (seed of devil)..

Faith made complete by our actions, our actions as the result of God working in us on the basis of our knowledge of God...
Different from the works of the law...because that works comes from you alone apart from God’s works in you..Philippians 3:8-11, also see how the Sinai covenant was instituted ie who gives and who works...

Matthew 7:22...is what those who profess to know God without actions to uphold that claim...

verse 23...those that works iniquity...
Not about law is about faith without the actions that must accompany that faith...

1John2..if you referring to the commands then John mention the commandments...to believe in the name of His Son, and to love others...if you look at those commandments the first one is to believe in Jesus, that is from the good news from Genesis, and the second is our love or is the results of our belief that we shows to others that is our actions...so we can put this in one sentence which is Faith express through Love...

try to answer as honest as I can. Let me know if I miss one..so we can share..thanks, sorry about the grammar...

Right after God recited the 10 commandments in Deuteronomy 5, in Deuteronomy 6:5 he said "...'And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.'"

Paul says love your neighbor is doing the commandments:
Romans 13:9-10 ...'For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, you shall love your neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.'

John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
1 John 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

pasifika · May 7, 2020

Andre_b said:
Right after God recited the 10 commandments in Deuteronomy 5, in Deuteronomy 6:5 he said "...'And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.'"

Paul says love your neighbor is doing the commandments:
Romans 13:9-10 ...'For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, you shall love your neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.'

John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
1 John 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Yes both commands are in the book of the law OT, but why is it a new command in the NT is because the truth of those command was seen in Him (Jesus) but also will be seen in us...meaning it was through Jesus that these commands can be fully followed ever since the time it was given in Sinai...no one but Him whom these commands can uphold...

Our belief in God comes from our acceptance of the message about Christ the good news. The message about God's love for us..so the truth of us believe in the good news can be demonstrate by our love for others...1John 2
So Jesus illustrate the two commands in His life...Not only He believed His Father but also love those whom the Father has given Him..

Andre_b · May 7, 2020

pasifika said:
Yes both commands are in the book of the law OT, but why is it a new command in the NT is because the truth of those command was seen in Him (Jesus) but also in us... the command to believe in God comes from the message about Christ the good news...the truth of you believe in the good news demonstrate by your love for others...1John 2
So Jesus illustrate the two commands in His life...Not only He believed His Father but also love those whom the Father has given Him..

Yes so keep the commandments of God like Jesus did so that it shows how you love him and others. He was summarizing the 10 clearly.

pasifika · May 7, 2020

Andre_b said:
Yes so keep the commandments of God like Jesus did so that it shows how you love him and others. He was summarizing the 10 clearly.

The commandments of God is what Jesus pass on to us...love God, and love others...all others commandments are uphold by these two commands..This is the way of the Spirit.

You love God by believing the Son (good news), you show that you love God by doing it to others...
We can never love others unless God love us first, that is why He gave us His Spirit.
The 10 commandments are uphold by these two commands. Love God and others...
The 10 commandments are archieved by yourself because that's how the covenant in Sinai is based on. Man will do what God said...Exodus 19:9

klutedavid · May 8, 2020

Studyman said:
So then before Jesus became a man HE was Melchizedek, the High Priest of God?

So Melchizedek taught the same Gospel as Jesus?

So everything that the Law and Prophets teach about the Messiah has already been fulfilled. Well if Jesus is the High Priest from the very beginning, then exactly what part of the Scriptures doesn't concern HIM?

I said

The scripture tells us that Jesus was the High Priest in the order of Melchizedek. Way before the Levite priesthood began.

To which you relied.

So then before Jesus became a man HE was Melchizedek, the High Priest of God?

That is called a theophany, Jesus appearing as someone in the Old Testament.

Of that we cannot be certain but what we can state absolutely, was that Melchizedek represented the shadow priesthood of the Christ. Abraham tithed to the one whom was greater and that greater person was Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:3
Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.

The priesthood of Jesus was connected with Melchizedek and is above the law and apart from the law. So Melchizedek taught the same Gospel as Jesus?

I don't know if you can make that claim? Whether Melchizedek taught the death and resurrection of the Christ is unlikely.

The Levite law was annulled, the sacrifices were annulled, the temple was annulled. Jesus did not destroy the law, Jesus fulfilled everything the law and prophets spoke about.

The law was absolutely annulled by it's perfect fulfillment in Christ.

So everything that the Law and Prophets teach about the Messiah has already been fulfilled?

If you for one moment contemplate that Jesus did not, above all, fulfill the moral law of His Father. Then I am at a loss to understand how you understand the basic teaching in the scripture. Jesus powerfully fulfilled the ten commandments.

Jesus did not steal; Jesus gave His life for everyone.

Jesus did not commit adultery; Jesus was the faithful bridegroom of the church itself.

Jesus did not lie; Jesus not only spoke the truth, Jesus was the truth.

The ten commandments have been fulfilled and I announce to you today, that you are no longer are under the ten commandments. All scripture has been fulfilled and could only ever be fulfilled by Jesus.

The law still acts in making someone aware of what sin is but is weak and useless. As far as sanctification or salvation is concerned.I believe everything that concerns Jesus Christ of which the scripture stands as the witness. Well if Jesus is the High Priest from the very beginning, then exactly what part of the Scriptures doesn't concern HIM?

What part of the scripture does not concern Him?

John 5:39
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me.

The unavoidable truth is that the scripture is really a testimony of Jesus.

I was responding to a religious man who is trying to convince me that the Laws of the God of the OT and the instruction to keep them, have been "Switched off".

Fulfilled is the word that describes the fulfillment of the moral commandments by Jesus.

Implying that I can no longer trust these instructions, therefore my statement regarding religious men who do not believe the Whole Bible can be trusted.

Trust the one who fulfilled the scripture because Jesus is the only one that could obey the scripture.

Broken Fence · May 8, 2020

YouAreAwesome said:
Hi, I would like to challenge Christians who keep a weekly Sabbath. I plan to start a new thread for each of the questions. To begin I would like to ask, was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Let's look at the relevant text:

By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work he had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. (Genesis 2:2-3)

Here God rested after He worked and blessed His day of rest. There is no command for humanity. There is no explicit instruction that every seventh day thereafter is blessed, nor is there instruction for mankind to respond in any particular way.

In the same vein, is there any record of mankind keeping a Sabbath day from Adam to Moses? There are a few places where the bible teaches God gave the Sabbath as a sign in the Mosaic Covenant:

“Also I gave them [Israel] My Sabbaths...” (Ezekiel 20:12-13)

“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy. Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you.’” (Exodus 31:13-14)

“‘It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’” (Exodus 31:17)

In support of this, Judaism itself has always taught that the Sabbath was given in the Mosaic Covenant, not at creation. For example Judaism teaches of the Seven Laws of Noah which are for Jews and Gentiles. But these do not include a Sabbath. So while there is a first mention of a Sabbath in Genesis, it seems the first instructions to keep it were introduced through Moses.

What do you think about this?

(Please stay on this point only and do not give other arguments promoting a Sabbath. I would like this thread to be about the one question, was there a seventh-day Sabbath for mankind originating with God and given to Adam? Or was it given to Moses and the Israelites? I would also prefer that you make logical arguments rather than preaching or posting multiple Bible verses that are only vaguely applicable).

I look forward to learning more and being challenged.

Peace.

I

YouAreAwesome said:
Hi, I would like to challenge Christians who keep a weekly Sabbath. I plan to start a new thread for each of the questions. To begin I would like to ask, was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Let's look at the relevant text:

By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work he had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. (Genesis 2:2-3)

Here God rested after He worked and blessed His day of rest. There is no command for humanity. There is no explicit instruction that every seventh day thereafter is blessed, nor is there instruction for mankind to respond in any particular way.

In the same vein, is there any record of mankind keeping a Sabbath day from Adam to Moses? There are a few places where the bible teaches God gave the Sabbath as a sign in the Mosaic Covenant:

“Also I gave them [Israel] My Sabbaths...” (Ezekiel 20:12-13)

“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy. Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you.’” (Exodus 31:13-14)

“‘It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’” (Exodus 31:17)

In support of this, Judaism itself has always taught that the Sabbath was given in the Mosaic Covenant, not at creation. For example Judaism teaches of the Seven Laws of Noah which are for Jews and Gentiles. But these do not include a Sabbath. So while there is a first mention of a Sabbath in Genesis, it seems the first instructions to keep it were introduced through Moses.

What do you think about this?

(Please stay on this point only and do not give other arguments promoting a Sabbath. I would like this thread to be about the one question, was there a seventh-day Sabbath for mankind originating with God and given to Adam? Or was it given to Moses and the Israelites? I would also prefer that you make logical arguments rather than preaching or posting multiple Bible verses that are only vaguely applicable).

I look forward to learning more and being challenged.

Peace.

Genesis 26:5 Genesis 2:1-3 Show that yes they did, and so did Abraham. However mankind was not instructed to keep the Sabbath til Moses, in my humble opinion.

YouAreAwesome · May 8, 2020

Cbowles said:
I

Genesis 26:5 Genesis 2:1-3 Show that yes they did, and so did Abraham.

Genesis 2:1-3 says God rested, not Adam and Eve. Neither was any instruction given.

Genesis 26:5 is best translated in the NIV:

"because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions.”

If you're like me, you see "commands, decrees and my instructions" and jump straight to the Mosaic Law. But the Mosaic Law didn't exist. So there are few different ways to approach this. First, if we look at the Hebrew we find that this verse could be talking about how Abraham listened to God and did all that was asked of Him (see post #154 for further details on the translation). Second, it could be referring to the seven laws of Noah that do not include a Sabbath command for anyone, including Abraham. Either way, no Sabbath is kept by anyone before Moses in the Bible.

YouAreAwesome · May 8, 2020

Studyman said:
Yes, it seems some interpret a few verses to imply that the Whole Bible can't be trusted, at least a large portion of it.

You need to stop being mean and painting your opponents in the wrong light. It doesn't help your case. All posters in this thread agree the bible can be trusted.

Studyman said:
You apparently believe Noah was a Gentile

Of course. There are only two groups: Israel, and gentiles. Even Adam was a gentile if we want to keep to definitions because Adam was not Jacob's descendant. We could talk spiritual Israel but that is a different discussion.

Studyman said:
Why didn't the other men of the land's conscious direct them into the righteousness of Noah? You said they both would have known God's definition of "Just" by nature?

It's a good question. Why isn't the whole world christian?

YouAreAwesome · May 8, 2020

Andre_b said:
John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
1 John 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

We can find what John meant by “The commandments of God” in his first and second letters:

1 John 3:23 “And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.”

1 John 4:21 “And this is the commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

1 John 5:1-5 Faith in Jesus overcomes the world and fulfils the commandments.

2 John 1:5 “... not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another.”

The commandments of God are to believe in Jesus and love one another.

Studyman · May 8, 2020

Cribstyl said:
LoL, I'm not sure if you're talking about me or not. I'll be that guy. You keep repeating that some are saying the bible cannot be trusted.
It would take some maturity to admit that no one here said or imply the bible cannot be trusted.
I trust the bible with all my soul, but I'm not in agreement with your understanding. The irony of it all is, you're leading all the dialog by asking questions and presenting commentary that drags multiple scriptures to make your arguments. God's word is true, but how you present it is debatable at best.

All you're doing is talking about the law where God's word is not. When we post scriptures saying; We're not under the law, you take offense and say that we're saying "don't trust God's word". You don't directly respond to what we post. So you're not proving anything. When we respond to what you post you asks more questions unrelated to our response or the scriptures you first posted.

Wow, I ask questions because in the same Bible we are speaking about, there is instruction to test doctrines. This instruction is there because God knows there are "other religious voices" in the garden so to speak. He knows, because HE introduced these other voices to give me the choice HE speaks of in Duet. 30.

I use the Holy Scriptures to do this because they are the only voice that can be trusted, at least according to the Holy men of the Bible.

Is. 8:To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

2 Tim. 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

"All you're doing is talking about the law where God's word is not."

God's Laws and Commandments are mentioned in the NT alone, over 240 times. "242" in the KJV. "242"!!!!

So this is a perfect example of why I believe God instructed me to always check out the religious voice to make sure they are telling HIS truth, and not theirs.

"When we post scriptures saying; We're not under the law, you take offense and say that we're saying "don't trust God's word"."

I am not aware that I did this. It would be very beneficial to a Brother if when you made accusations against them, you would provide some evidence of this accusation.
In the post you are replying to, I explain in detail why I believe there are religious men who do not trust the Bible as a whole. Please identify the part of my explanation you feel is unjust.

My understanding is that being "under the Law" of God means being dead because I rebelled against it. It seems Jesus took away the death I owed for rebelling against the Word's, and Instructions of my Creator. Having these sins removed, I am a sinless man. A New Creation in Christ. I can now, in repentance, turn from my rebellious ways, and Submit myself to Him and HIS WORDS, which HE says are Spirit and Life.

But if I return to following my own, or other religious voices, as I did before repentance, do i not bring myself back "under the Law"?

Rom. 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, ( transgress God's Laws) because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. )I think this means NO!)

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (Transgression) unto death, or of obedience (to what?) unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, (Not the Law as many preach) ye became the servants of righteousness.

"You don't directly respond to what we post. So you're not proving anything. When we respond to what you post you asks more questions unrelated to our response or the scriptures you first posted."

Again, It would be helpful if you would provide evidence of this. I believe I have answered every question asked of me. I can't say the same for others.

I noticed you are a self proclaimed "Pentecostal". Why are you not a Catholic? They have been around a long time. They claim to be God's Universal Church. They also claim belief in the Scriptures. Why do you not participate or contribute to the Catholic Church? Look at all the good they do, all the poor people and widows they help. Hospitals, schools, they come in Christ's Name, same as you. They preach Jesus is truly the Christ, same as you.

So why aren't you part of this Great Christian Church?

Was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Did Adam and Eve keep each seventh-day Sabbath?

Yes

No

Veteran

☝✌

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

☝✌

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

God with us!

☝✌

☝✌

☝✌

Well-Known Member

Similar threads