My viral tweet on how Jesus freed me from homosexuality

VirOptimus · May 6, 2020

createdtoworship said:
I shared this earlier. Someone told me they would rather burn in hell than be forbidden to love who they choose to love, in their case a homosexual. Ok next time you are barbecuing some steak grab the grill, for 30 seconds. Let it sizzle for awhile. Sure you get 3rd degree burns, some blistering. I told the lady, if you can't handle a few seconds of burn. Why are you not afraid of an eternity of your whole body burning?

Threats of eternal torture, classy!

rjs330 · May 6, 2020

FireDragon76 said:
Do you really want to go there?

A collection of texts of diverse origins based on an amalgam of a plethora of different religious and folk traditions, cobbled together for political purposes, is an "owners manual" that can tell men and women far removed from the bronze and iron age context of the original texts, how to live?

This goes back to what I said on another thread, Christians too often choose a strange hill to die on in the name of defending an issue that isn't even central to the Christian message.

No homosexuality is not central to the Christian message. But sin is. And homosexuality IS sin.
Sinfulness is central to understanding the gospel. Our need for Christ is centered on the fact we are all sinners and condemned because of that. The kind of sin isnt really relevant. The Bible does share with us all the different sinful behaviors that separate us from God. And homosexuality is one of them. But just one. It's not the biggest or most important. Because in God's eyes there isn't a biggest or most important. There is just sin. For all have sinned and fallen short.
The gospel is all about undeserved salvation. No one deserves it or earns it. It is a free gift if God.

And man refuses to accept this salvation because they love darkness rather than light. Homosexuals are no more lost than anyone else. Without Jesus, all are in the same boat. Everyone needs Jesus for salvation. Everyone.

rjs330 · May 6, 2020

ReesePiece23 said:
I've caught a few of your posts, and I have to say I'm with you 9.5 times out of 10. This is that 0.5 now.

I'm not a psychologist, but I am meticulous when it comes to the behaviour of others. I could be wrong here, but... I'm willing to go for broke and put my future mortgage on that man still being gay. I'm not here to discuss political correctness - because I think most of it is a bunk, I just seek the truth.

If a man loves another man, I can't understand how that is meant to be sinful. Love (true love) is never a sin. In fact, two gay Christian men could serve as an anchor to each other if the love is true enough, I firmly believe that. What better way to stay on track?

Sin isn't rated from best to worst. Christianity honestly needs to get over itself, and remember that humility and understanding come before ANYTHING else. Yep, and I'm probably the worst among us for being egotistical and insensitive, so I'm not bigging myself up here.

But is sin ever acceptable to God? Where does God say that homosexuality is not sinful? And under what circumstances does he say it is? Does He give qualifiers for sin? Under what circumstances does God indicate that adultery is acceptable?

FireDragon76 · May 6, 2020

createdtoworship said:
I shared this earlier. Someone told me they would rather burn in hell than be forbidden to love who they choose to love, in their case a homosexual. Ok next time you are barbecuing some steak grab the grill, for 30 seconds. Let it sizzle for awhile. Sure you get 3rd degree burns, some blistering. I told the lady, if you can't handle a few seconds of burn. Why are you not afraid of an eternity of your whole body burning?

A god that runs a cosmic Auschwitz is not one I will follow, no matter how many implied threats are made.

Christians really ought to think critically about their theology and ask themselves if what they are articulating is ethical.

FireDragon76 · May 6, 2020

Skreeper said:
Why would I be afraid of imaginary things?

Moreover, I am not so easily coerced by threats of torture especially if it concerns people I love. I would not give up my love that I have for my boyfriend even if it meant having to endure eternal torture.

That's why I believe it's imaginary, also. It's hard to reconcile the implied threats with the concept of benevolence.

FireDragon76 · May 6, 2020

JLB777 said:
The goal of reconciliation to God was due to immortality, unrighteousness, and sin.

Those who live immoral will not inherit the kingdom of God.

We obey Jesus’s commandments which are the way of righteous living and love, in His kingdom.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3

Jesus warned us that we must remain in Him.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Here’s how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
Revelation 22:14-15

JLB

My sense is that the historical Jesus was far less concerned with moral purity and more interested in how his followers and disciples would demonstrate compassion in their lives.

In that sense, I believe those people who take stands for those that are traditionally marginalized, including gay people, are more "in Christ" than those who advocate for moral puritanism.

Confused-by-christianity · May 6, 2020

7 Pages of chat for a guy who said he was gay then now he isn't?? Why so contentious??

Skreeper · May 6, 2020

Confused-by-christianity said:
7 Pages of chat for a guy who said he was gay then now he isn't?? Why so contentious??

I see you're new here.

Homosexuality as a topic usually has pretty high engagement, that's why.

Confused-by-christianity · May 6, 2020

I noticed haha - In the real world too.

I assume it starts something like - Many people feeling they are born homosexual and cannot change that.
???

Confused-by-christianity · May 6, 2020

Christians saying something like "Well, it's a sin". And then - everything branches off into all sorts of directions - with lots of painful stories in the mix (and probably a few nice stories?)

Skreeper · May 6, 2020

Confused-by-christianity said:
I noticed haha - In the real world too.

I assume it starts something like - Many people feeling they are born homosexual and cannot change that.
???

Confused-by-christianity said:
Christians saying something like "Well, it's a sin". And then - everything branches off into all sorts of directions - with lots of painful stories in the mix (and probably a few nice stories?)

That's pretty much how it usually starts.

Confused-by-christianity · May 6, 2020

I get that gay people would feel like dirt when christians say that. It would hurt.

Confused-by-christianity · May 6, 2020

Who would want to be told that something you believe you can’t change is an abomination to God.

Confused-by-christianity · May 6, 2020

I assume at this part of the thread - someone compares homosexuality to pedophilia or something and asks “would you just let a person like that abuse children”. Then I say “one is abuse and the other isn’t” and then they say “no, it’s both a sin and harmful - see.... here”quote stat” and here “quote stat””. Then I dismantle the stats and reconstruct them to suit my argument ???

rjs330 · May 6, 2020

hedrick said:
It certainly is not. Jesus taught obedience, not holiness. There’s a difference. Purity and holiness were the ideals of the Pharisees. Purity is your accomplishment. People work to achieve it, and are worried about doing questionable things, even if they might help someone, because it might make them impure.

That's the real meaning of the parable of the good Samaritan. "passed by on the other side. Luke uses a rare doubly compounded vb., anti-parerchesthai, another sense of which is found in Wis 16:10. The implication of his passing by is to avoid contamination by contact with or proximity to a dead body." (commentary on Luke in the Anchor Bible) The problem with the priest and Levite wasn't that they were hard-hearted, but that their purity requirements kept them from becoming involved with the victim.

Obedience looks only to Jesus and to the good of our neighbor. It doesn’t imagine that in doing that we achieve anything for ourselves. We don’t become “holy” that way.

“So you also, when you have done all that you were ordered to do, say, ‘We are worthless slaves; we have done only what we ought to have done!’ ” (Luke 17:10)

Furthermore, improving morals was never Jesus’ goal. Jewish morals were already if anything too strict. His goal was to reconcile us to God and to each other, because he knew that in the end behavior that really furthers the ends of the Kingdom comes from grateful people who are forgiven, not people who are afraid of becoming impure.

----

I should note that Paul had a different problem. He was dealing with converts from a Roman culture whose morals were actually a problem. So he did have to do some moral teaching. But he didn't lose track of the fact that it was the presence of the Holy Spirit that really characterized the Christian life, not morals.

Have you forgotten I Peter 1:15 &16?

Jesus did teach obedience. We are made holy in Christ already. He did not teach morality because morality is fluid. He taught obedience because obedience to God and Christ is not fluid.

In the context of this thread, it is disobedience to God to commit homosexual sin. Just like it is to commit any other.

rjs330 · May 6, 2020

Skreeper said:
You believe that you know God. And that is fine.

Billions of other people also 'know' God and somehow God seems to change depending on who you ask.

I don't care either way until this God convinces me he exists.

Well that is between you and God. But you won't find him that accommodating. You have to seek him and you will find him if you do. But seeking isn't "prove to me you exist." If you really want to know God it's different than that.

I do sense that you are not really interested in knowing God. Until you are you will remain in darkness. But like I said, that's between you and God.

rjs330 · May 6, 2020

FireDragon76 said:
That's why I believe it's imaginary, also. It's hard to reconcile the implied threats with the concept of benevolence.

That's why spiritual truth is spiritually discerned. Jesus talked about that. The Spirit reveals spiritual truth. That's why you can't reconcile it.

And you never will. No one will be able to do it for you because you won't believe. No one will be adequately be able to explain it to your natural mind because your natural mind will refuse to believe it.

But once you give into faith, realize you need Christ, accept and believe a whole new world opens up to you. Salvation is a wonderful thing. That's why Jesus said, whosoever believes has eternal life. He that believes not does not.

rjs330 · May 6, 2020

Confused-by-christianity said:
Who would want to be told that something you believe you can’t change is an abomination to God.

That's why focusing on one particular sin is not the best thing. Yes homosexuality separates one from God. But not any more than any other sin.

But it is VERY personal. Like you said, people don't believe that you cannot change. However that is not what the Bible says. It says we CAN change. It may not be easy and it may not come over night. But with God all things are possible. That's the good news. But in order to get there we first must recognize our need for Christ. Not because we might be homosexual. No our need for Christ is because we are sinners and lost without him. No matter what our orientation might be. Homosexuals are no more lost than those that are not.

Skreeper · May 6, 2020

rjs330 said:
That's why focusing on one particular sin is not the best thing. Yes homosexuality separates one from God. But not any more than any other sin.

But it is VERY personal. Like you said, people don't believe that you cannot change. However that is not what the Bible says. It says we CAN change. It may not be easy and it may not come over night. But with God all things are possible. That's the good news. But in order to get there we first must recognize our need for Christ. Not because we might be homosexual. No our need for Christ is because we are sinners and lost without him. No matter what our orientation might be. Homosexuals are no more lost than those that are not.

I find the idea that human beings are worthless scum without Christ a really disgusting notion.
It completely devalues humanity and it's accomplishments and focuses too much on our bad attributes.

I'd like to think we humans are more than that. We may have our bad side but also a good one.
Some people choose to see the ugliness in this world, the disarray. I choose to see the beauty.

And I believe humanity can reach greatness without a magical saviour in the sky.

rjs330 · May 6, 2020

Skreeper said:
I find the idea that human beings are worthless scum without Christ a really disgusting notion.
It completely devalues humanity and it's accomplishments and focuses too much on our bad attributes.

I'd like to think we humans are more than that. We may have our bad side but also a good one.
Some people choose to see the ugliness in this world, the disarray. I choose to see the beauty.

And I believe humanity can reach greatness without a magical saviour in the sky.

And that's why you will not find him. Humanity has never achieved greatness in all of its existence. And we never will, because our hearts are wicked. The claim that humanity can achieve that despite all the evidence of all the years we have existed in this planet takes much more faith than to believe that eternal life can be had in Christ.

My viral tweet on how Jesus freed me from homosexuality

A nihilist who cares.

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