THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

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mmksparbud

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Not at all, but I have a problem with people believing that he was in Paradise with Jesus the same day.

He wasn't---Jesus did not ascend to the Father until after He talked to Mary on Sunday morning. Have to remember that punctuation was not a part of the Greek.

Luk_23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.

Move that little coma over and it gives a whole different meaning. Jesus was telling him---"Today"---though I am hanging on a cross and dyeing---"you will be with me in paradise." It won't be until the resurrection though.
 
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Lazarus Short

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He wasn't---Jesus did not ascend to the Father until after He talked to Mary on Sunday morning. Have to remember that punctuation was not a part of the Greek.

Luk_23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.

Move that little coma over and it gives a whole different meaning. Jesus was telling him---"Today"---though I am hanging on a cross and dyeing---"you will be with me in paradise." It won't be until the resurrection though.

Exactly, and I learned it during my Adventist period.

The proposed meeting in Paradise could not have happened, not only because Jesus would not ascend to His Father for three days (and then some), but because the thief would be dead in sheol until the Resurrection. Too bad that preachers get so un-Biblical in trying to teach the Bible, but translators are worse...
 
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agapelove

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I wish man believed in the death penalty... in Canada... and much of the US.. they don't.

And, the reason that I did not respond to your one single verse.. is because it is never a good idea to take one single verse about complex theology and comment on that one verse.

Things are written in context with the chapter, book and verses surrounding it.

So many times, here, people quote one verse and found their entire faulty view on it alone.

Why do you “wish” death penalty for anyone?

You are proving your own point that God’s ways are not like your ways.
 
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JacksBratt

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Why do you “wish” death penalty for anyone?

You are proving your own point that God’s ways are not like your ways.
I believe that certain offenses should be paid for with the life of those committing them.

I don't see why prisons should be full of people that cost the country millions of dollars in tax payer money when nobody wants those people walking free again.. nor should they be.

I believe that one of the biggest errors that our country and the US made... was when they determined that criminals are not responsible for their crime.. but society is..

Thus.. society is given the responsibility of "rehabilitation".. It's like some debt that they owe the convicted.

I believe that "rehabilitation" should be given... only after punishment is finished.

Institutions should not be called "correctional"... They should be punishment.. then rehab...

But, again, this is off topic.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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Nice scripture.

Does it have any commentary to support what you think it is saying? Or are we just going to start posting bible verses and then drop the mike as if it has any relevance.
At the time I posted it was both a comment on “no comment” as well as a statement of faith, remembering that truth and remembering to be still, because God’s holy angels are fighting against the dragon and his with swords I can’t even see yet.
 
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agapelove

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I believe that certain offenses should be paid for with the life of those committing them.

I don't see why prisons should be full of people that cost the country millions of dollars in tax payer money when nobody wants those people walking free again.. nor should they be.

Again you are proving the point that God's ways are not like man's way.

I believe that one of the biggest errors that our country and the US made... was when they determined that criminals are not responsible for their crime.. but society is..

Thus.. society is given the responsibility of "rehabilitation".. It's like some debt that they owe the convicted.

I believe that "rehabilitation" should be given... only after punishment is finished.

Institutions should not be called "correctional"... They should be punishment.. then rehab...

But, again, this is off topic.

Both the individual AND society is at fault.

So yes, we as a society have the responsibility of rehabilitation, otherwise our world will become an endless cycle of abusers raising more abusers. I agree with you, criminals need to be punished for their crimes, and then we must help correct them.

The problem is we as a society have entirely failed in the rehabilitation of most of these criminals. Where we have failed, God will prevail.
 
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JacksBratt

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Again you are proving the point that God's ways are not like man's way.



Both the individual AND society is at fault.

So yes, we as a society have the responsibility of rehabilitation, otherwise our world will become an endless cycle of abusers raising more abusers. I agree with you, criminals need to be punished for their crimes, and then we must help correct them.

The problem is we as a society have entirely failed in the rehabilitation of most of these criminals. Where we have failed, God will prevail.
There are many that, after their just punishment, should get rehabilitation.. However, if they don't rehabilitate.. then more discipline is necessary.

Society is all nicey nicey and awe "its not their fault" and "what if we execute an innocent man"... Until it is their child raped and murdered... or a number of kids in their neighborhood are stolen and sold to the sex trade... or a serial pedophile goes rampant in their town or city..
Then.. they all want guns to kill the person...

We are too soft on criminals..

A 20 year old gang banger goes into the "big house" meets a bunch of seasoned professionals.. comes out with an education in who to see, how to do it right, who the best lawyers are and what they did wrong to get caught and sentenced...

It's criminal U.. 101....
 
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JacksBratt

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Again you are proving the point that God's ways are not like man's way.



Both the individual AND society is at fault.

So yes, we as a society have the responsibility of rehabilitation, otherwise our world will become an endless cycle of abusers raising more abusers. I agree with you, criminals need to be punished for their crimes, and then we must help correct them.

The problem is we as a society have entirely failed in the rehabilitation of most of these criminals. Where we have failed, God will prevail.


Let me put it this way..

Do you reach into a fire to pull out a log?

Do you jump out a window to get to the ground floor quicker?

Do you drink really really hot tea?

Do you care when cutting vegetables with a knife?

Do you care when you bang your toe off of a table leg?

The entire human race exists due to pain.. Pain teaches us what not to do because it stops us from hurting ourselves..

Laws of physics also cannot be broken.. You cannot drive a car at 100 mph and go around a 90 degree turn.

You cannot float out a window down to the ground 9 stories down.

You cannot walk across a lake, on the bottom.


The laws of mankind were to keep people safe. Protect your safety and property from the actions of others..

If there is no checks and balances... mankind will begin to ignore the laws of men because they don't give a deterrent..

Today there is not enough deterrents... Kids talk back to authority.. People hurt others, destroy families, take money and fortunes of others... damage property and the safety and lives of others... with no repercussions...

This is the result of being soft on crime and criminals.. Nobody cares... cops and lawyers are corrupt...

Safety of man woman and child suffers... because people don't want to be too harsh on the criminal..

Well, they don't care about you.. and they laugh at the light sentence you give them.. and are back out doing it again despite your sad little effort to "rehabilitate them" into something that they will never be.
 
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agapelove

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Let me put it this way..

Do you reach into a fire to pull out a log?

Do you jump out a window to get to the ground floor quicker?

Do you drink really really hot tea?

Do you care when cutting vegetables with a knife?

Do you care when you bang your toe off of a table leg?

The entire human race exists due to pain.. Pain teaches us what not to do because it stops us from hurting ourselves..

Laws of physics also cannot be broken.. You cannot drive a car at 100 mph and go around a 90 degree turn.

You cannot float out a window down to the ground 9 stories down.

You cannot walk across a lake, on the bottom.

Perhaps God allows suffering so that the human race can sustain itself.

Thank you for this profound thought. (no sarcasm :))

Today there is not enough deterrents... Kids talk back to authority.. People hurt others, destroy families, take money and fortunes of others... damage property and the safety and lives of others... with no repercussions...

This is the result of being soft on crime and criminals.. Nobody cares... cops and lawyers are corrupt...

Safety of man woman and child suffers... because people don't want to be too harsh on the criminal..

Well, they don't care about you.. and they laugh at the light sentence you give them.. and are back out doing it again despite your sad little effort to "rehabilitate them" into something that they will never be.

People have been hurting each other since the beginning of time. The law is only half sufficient... we will always find ways to be awful to each other.

You're right. Man's justice system has failed man. God will redeem.
 
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JacksBratt

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Perhaps God allows suffering so that the human race can sustain themselves.

Thank you for this profound thought. (no sarcasm :))
You're welcome and thank you.

Here' the way I see it.

Some people can look at a situation and say "Nah.... that's not going to end well"
Others need to try it and either get hurt or hurt bad or get lucky..

In the end.. we learn from pain.. It's the great teacher.

One of my kids.. had to push it until the spanking... Soon he learned that when I said no.. it meant no and if he did not stop.. he got a little pain..
He is a fine young adult now.. great contributor to society.

Another... if spanked.. got angry.. He only needed to be talked to and explained why... Soon we learned that he didn't need the "negative reinforcement" that his brother did..

He.. is also a fine young adult and contributor to society.

The third, my daughter.. only had to be spoken to in a stern strong voice.. If I was not careful.. it would bring tears..

Also, a fine young adult and contributor to society..

Humans are all different... They need different levels of "negative reinforcement" to learn how to behave, respect, be safe and get along in this world.

Some... need years to think about it.. with no freedom.

Some.. are never going to change and do things that shows us that they cannot walk among us...ever.





People have been hurting each other since the beginning of time. The law is only half sufficient... we will always find ways to be awful to each other.

Yes.. we will.. But, that is no excuse for taking those that are terrible and have no respect or regard for the lives and safety of other humans... and letting them do it.

If these are caught.. it is our duty to end them when an action of enough severity deems it to be necessary...

It serves to protect the others who do respect and regard the life, liberty and freedom and pursuit of happiness of everyone else...

And.. it takes the financial burden of keeping them alive, caged and fed and away from everyone else..... while serving as a deterrent to others like them.


You're right. Man's justice system has failed man. God will redeem.[/QUOTE]
 
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FineLinen

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Dear Father: You tried to reconcile the good, the bad and the ugly, but alas their stubborn will prevails.

You tried to be the Saviour of all mankind, but alas all mankind will have none of it.

You may be the Author of the radical all, but alas, You are not the Finisher of what you begin.

The many were made sinners, but alas the many are not made righteous.

"So everyone come here, toward Me!--all those constantly weary and exhausted from toil and labor, as well as folks having been caused to carry a load, and continuing burdened down--and I, Myself, will refresh you and cause you folks to rest. At once lift up My crossbeam (or: the yoke which is Me, the balance beam that comes from and pertains to Me) upon you people, and instantly learn from Me, because I am (or: I continuously exist being) mild-tempered (gentle, kind and considerate) and humble (low) in the heart, and you 'folks will find refreshment and discover rest in and for your souls (the whole inner person; the mind, emotions and nerves)' [Jer. 6:16] You see, My crossbeam (or: the yoke which is Me; the balance beam that comes from and pertains to Me) is useful and kindly obliging, and My load (the burden that is Me and which pertains to Me) continues being light (not heavy)." (JMT)
 
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agapelove

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You're welcome and thank you.

Here' the way I see it.

Some people can look at a situation and say "Nah.... that's not going to end well"
Others need to try it and either get hurt or hurt bad or get lucky..

In the end.. we learn from pain.. It's the great teacher.

One of my kids.. had to push it until the spanking... Soon he learned that when I said no.. it meant no and if he did not stop.. he got a little pain..
He is a fine young adult now.. great contributor to society.

Another... if spanked.. got angry.. He only needed to be talked to and explained why... Soon we learned that he didn't need the "negative reinforcement" that his brother did..

He.. is also a fine young adult and contributor to society.

The third, my daughter.. only had to be spoken to in a stern strong voice.. If I was not careful.. it would bring tears..

Also, a fine young adult and contributor to society..

Humans are all different... They need different levels of "negative reinforcement" to learn how to behave, respect, be safe and get along in this world.

Some... need years to think about it.. with no freedom.

Some.. are never going to change and do things that shows us that they cannot walk among us...ever.

Your children sound like wonderful people.

I am glad you know how to discipline them, as a good father should. In the same way God knows all his children intimately and He will know how to discipline them as well.

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
John 18:9 This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: “I have not lost one of those you gave me."

While we may have failed to redeem some of our lost brothers and sisters, God will not fail.

John 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.
 
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mmksparbud

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You're welcome and thank you.

Here' the way I see it.

Some people can look at a situation and say "Nah.... that's not going to end well"
Others need to try it and either get hurt or hurt bad or get lucky..

In the end.. we learn from pain.. It's the great teacher.

One of my kids.. had to push it until the spanking... Soon he learned that when I said no.. it meant no and if he did not stop.. he got a little pain..
He is a fine young adult now.. great contributor to society.

Another... if spanked.. got angry.. He only needed to be talked to and explained why... Soon we learned that he didn't need the "negative reinforcement" that his brother did..

He.. is also a fine young adult and contributor to society.

The third, my daughter.. only had to be spoken to in a stern strong voice.. If I was not careful.. it would bring tears..

Also, a fine young adult and contributor to society..

Humans are all different... They need different levels of "negative reinforcement" to learn how to behave, respect, be safe and get along in this world.

Some... need years to think about it.. with no freedom.

Some.. are never going to change and do things that shows us that they cannot walk among us...ever.







Yes.. we will.. But, that is no excuse for taking those that are terrible and have no respect or regard for the lives and safety of other humans... and letting them do it.

If these are caught.. it is our duty to end them when an action of enough severity deems it to be necessary...

It serves to protect the others who do respect and regard the life, liberty and freedom and pursuit of happiness of everyone else...

And.. it takes the financial burden of keeping them alive, caged and fed and away from everyone else..... while serving as a deterrent to others like them.


You're right. Man's justice system has failed man. God will redeem.
[/QUOTE]

LOL! That brought memories of my step children. I was a yeller. I could yell and scream till the cows came home---but they knew after the 2nd time of yelling, I meant business. All my husband, their father, had to do was look at them! They would straighten right up. He was 5ft. 6in. The boy was 6 ft tall by his late teens. Their mother was almost 6 ft tall! The boy ended up hitting her one day and she called him. We dropped everything and drove the 4 hours to their home. We sat down in the front lawn with him and his dad said if he ever laid a hand on her again he would answer to him. That was it. He never did. I asked his sister once, years later, how come he hit her being so tall, and here I am at 5ft. 4 in . and he never even tried to hit me. She said, because he knew you'd kill him! Oh---right. I see.
He still sends me mother's day cards. She is Mormon, and is currently not talking to me for she found out I was less than polite to a couple Mormon boys that came to my door (my current husband had just died, the TV cable Co. had gone into my bank account and taken all but $5.00 for not returning their equipment in time even though I had been told I could take a couple more months under the circumstances but they would not return the money ---I was totally furious in a very bad mood when they rang the doorbell-----wrong time for anyone to call on me!!) She has never forgiven me this transgression, refuses to even talk to me about it! I did call the bank and they did return the money.
Yep---we are all different.
 
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FineLinen

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God knows all his children intimately and He will know how to discipline them as well.

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

John 18:9 This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: “I have not lost one of those you gave me."

While we may have failed to redeem some of our lost brothers and sisters, God will not fail.

John 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.

Agape Love: I have no idea how a young person can know such a wonderful union with Abba this young in life? Your posts are exceptional. Thank you for joining us at C.F.

The Father loves the Son and has placed the radical all into His hands!
 
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JacksBratt

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Your children sound like wonderful people.

I am glad you know how to discipline them, as a good father should. In the same way God knows all his children intimately and He will know how to discipline them as well.

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
John 18:9 This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: “I have not lost one of those you gave me."

While we may have failed to redeem some of our lost brothers and sisters, God will not fail.

John 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.
We do not become a child of God.. or even be part of the family if we don't accept Christ.

Those that reject Christ are without hope.
 
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I believe that certain offenses should be paid for with the life of those committing them.

I don't see why prisons should be full of people that cost the country millions of dollars in tax payer money when nobody wants those people walking free again.. nor should they be.

I believe that one of the biggest errors that our country and the US made... was when they determined that criminals are not responsible for their crime.. but society is..

Thus.. society is given the responsibility of "rehabilitation".. It's like some debt that they owe the convicted.

I believe that "rehabilitation" should be given... only after punishment is finished.

Institutions should not be called "correctional"... They should be punishment.. then rehab...

But, again, this is off topic.

Not really off-topic, cause that attitude is one destined for the fire I believe. With what measure ye judge, so too will ye be judged.

You do know that solely punitive sentencing has been overwhelmingly proven fruitless. The 'satisfaction' that a man might get by watching his brother's killer fry (for example), has only an appeal to the bloodlust of the fallen mind, the 'lex talionis' or law of tooth and claw, as it's known. That's old covenant juice man. Are you Jewish?

The best outcome from that nasty situation would be the sincere repentance and reform of the criminal, and his devoting the remainder of his life to the service of God. In his heartfelt apologies to the family and his redeeming deeds, over time their wounds begin to heal.

That's why our sentencing policies require the judge to balance the objectives of punishment, deterrence and rehabilitation in trying to reach an outcome that satisfies justice. Obviously the human system has many weaknesses, but God's system is perfect - and you can be sure the church ain't a club-like 'Didn't do the sinner's prayer? To hell with him!' That would be to (as W might say) misunderestimate Him. The scriptures and the power of God, sir.
 
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mmksparbud

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Not really off-topic, cause that attitude is one destined for the fire I believe. With what measure ye judge, so too will ye be judged.

You do know that solely punitive sentencing has been overwhelmingly proven fruitless. The 'satisfaction' that a man might get by watching his brother's killer fry (for example), has only an appeal to the bloodlust of the fallen mind, the 'lex talionis' or law of tooth and claw, as it's known. That's old covenant juice man. Are you Jewish?

The best outcome from that nasty situation would be the sincere repentance and reform of the criminal, and his devoting the remainder of his life to the service of God. In his heartfelt apologies to the family and his redeeming deeds, over time their wounds begin to heal.

That's why our sentencing policies require the judge to balance the objectives of punishment, deterrence and rehabilitation in trying to reach an outcome that satisfies justice. Obviously the human system has many weaknesses, but God's system is perfect - and you can be sure the church ain't a club-like 'Didn't do the sinner's prayer? To hell with him!' That would be to (as W might say) misunderestimate Him. The scriptures and the power of God, sir.

God's justice is Holy and Pure and Loving. It is not like ours. He alone knows the heart. There are incredibly few child molesters who will ever be rehabilitated. There are serial killers who have admitted that if they were to be freed, they'd kill again. Even they know when the death penalty is just. Whatever decision God makes---is just. He can not do otherwise. If you do not think He is just in annihilating whomsoever He decides to----if this makes Him into some sort of a monster to you, you need not worry---you won't be happy serving Him and He won't force you to.
 
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JacksBratt

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Not really off-topic, cause that attitude is one destined for the fire I believe. With what measure ye judge, so too will ye be judged.

That's fine. I am already judged by the same measure... I'm fine with it.

In fact.... If I was, somehow, caught up in a murder and wrongfully charged and found guilty... Just put me in the chair... pull the switch..

If they are that certain that I took someones life... send me home to glory... done...

You do know that solely punitive sentencing has been overwhelmingly proven fruitless. The 'satisfaction' that a man might get by watching his brother's killer fry (for example), has only an appeal to the bloodlust of the fallen mind, the 'lex talionis' or law of tooth and claw, as it's known. That's old covenant juice man. Are you Jewish?

I don't see the death penalty as a "satisfaction" for the victim and the victim's family.

If someone was to kill one of my loved ones.. watching that person being put to death.. would never ever give "satisfaction"..The hole in my life would never be filled. The loss never ended, not even a little bit.

The simple fact that the person would never do it again, never walk as a free person, never be able to cause fear and pain... That's the reason.

The best outcome from that nasty situation would be the sincere repentance and reform of the criminal, and his devoting the remainder of his life to the service of God. In his heartfelt apologies to the family and his redeeming deeds, over time their wounds begin to heal.
Yep, they can do that while they stand trial, get convicted and wait for their execution.

That's why our sentencing policies require the judge to balance the objectives of punishment, deterrence and rehabilitation in trying to reach an outcome that satisfies justice.

How's that working for ya?

A guy, here in Ontario, got drunk, ran a stop sign, killed a grandpa and his three young grandchildren.

was sentenced to 8 years...

Just got out after very little time.. on "Day parole".. While the family still lives with a huge hole in their lives. A legacy cut down, cut off.. and this guy didn't even show remorse.... The first parole hearing.. they refused him because he didn't show remorse... Next time.. he figured it out.. put on his "sad face".... now... he's out...

Obviously the human system has many weaknesses, but God's system is perfect - and you can be sure the church ain't a club-like 'Didn't do the sinner's prayer? To hell with him!' That would be to (as W might say) misunderestimate Him. The scriptures and the power of God, sir.

Not sure what you mean here, Shrewd
 
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FineLinen

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We do not become a child of God.. or even be part of the family if we don't accept Christ.

Those that reject Christ are without hope.

Dear Bratt: You must experience an awakening of the Holy One. His middle Name is Isous, the salvation of Jehovah. Your present scope is limited, His has "UN" preceding it.

Our God works to bring the entire lost and broken sons & daughters of Adam home to Himself, every last one, now & in the fullness of times when His cherished desire becomes complete!
 
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Dear Bratt: You must experience an awakening of the Holy One. His middle Name is Isous, the salvation of Jehovah. Your present scope is limited, His has "UN" preceding it.

Our God works to bring the entire lost and broken sons & daughters of Adam home to Himself, every last one, now & in the fullness of times when His cherished desire becomes complete!

Some would render Jehovah's Right Arm as withered, and His right eye as blinded.

But that would be to make the appalling blunder of mistaking Jesus for the IDOL SHEPHERD:

"Woe to the worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock! May the sword strike his arm and his right eye! May his arm be completely withered, his right eye totally blinded!" (Zech 11:17)
 
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