Was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Norbert L · May 2, 2020

YouAreAwesome said:
Hi, I would like to challenge Christians who keep a weekly Sabbath. I plan to start a new thread for each of the questions. To begin I would like to ask, was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Let's look at the relevant text:

By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work he had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. (Genesis 2:2-3)

Here God rested after He worked and blessed His day of rest. There is no command for humanity. There is no explicit instruction that every seventh day thereafter is blessed, nor is there instruction for mankind to respond in any particular way.

In the same vein, is there any record of mankind keeping a Sabbath day from Adam to Moses? There are a few places where the bible teaches God gave the Sabbath as a sign in the Mosaic Covenant:

“Also I gave them [Israel] My Sabbaths...” (Ezekiel 20:12-13)

“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy. Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you.’” (Exodus 31:13-14)

“‘It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’” (Exodus 31:17)

In support of this, Judaism itself has always taught that the Sabbath was given in the Mosaic Covenant, not at creation. For example Judaism teaches of the Seven Laws of Noah which are for Jews and Gentiles. But these do not include a Sabbath. So while there is a first mention of a Sabbath in Genesis, it seems the first instructions to keep it were introduced through Moses.

What do you think about this?

(Please stay on this point only and do not give other arguments promoting a Sabbath. I would like this thread to be about the one question, was there a seventh-day Sabbath for mankind originating with God and given to Adam? Or was it given to Moses and the Israelites? I would also prefer that you make logical arguments rather than preaching or posting multiple Bible verses that are only vaguely applicable).

I look forward to learning more and being challenged.

Peace.

Considering it's a far more complex question than some of the superficially minded statements a few Sabbatarians would state, there is more to the Sabbath than just worship as stated by Jesus Himself.

"In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working." John 5:17

klutedavid · May 2, 2020

BobRyan said:
Gentiles were not circumcised that kept the Sabbath - in Acts 13, Acts 17:1-5 , Acts 18:4-9 etc

There is no requirement that gentiles be circumcised in OT or NT

Any slave in Israel and any Gentile living in Israel could be circumcised. The slave had no option but the Gentile could depart the nation of Israel.

Your wrong on this point also.

klutedavid · May 2, 2020

Norbert L said:
Considering it's a far more complex question than some of the superficially minded statements a few Sabbatarians would state, there is more to the Sabbath than just worship as stated by Jesus Himself.

"In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working." John 5:17

Correct indeed. Jesus was the target of the Jews for claiming equality with God and for working on the Sabbath.

John 5:18
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

Jesus was definitely guilty on both counts.

klutedavid · May 2, 2020

BobRyan said:
Here is what we find in the New Covenant
Jer 31:31-34 "THIS is the NEW Covenant... I will write My Law on their heart"

I feel like a proof reader working for a local newspaper, having to correct the journalists.

Jeremiah (chapter 31) is not the new covenant but foretells what God will do in the new covenant.

Unchanged in the NT Heb 8:6-12 "THIS is the NEW Covenant... I will write My Law on their heart"

And just as importantly as God's Spirit writing that love on our hearts, is this powerful verse.

Hebrews 8:12
For I will be merciful to their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.

What a powerful statement of absolute forgiveness for our sin. This new covenant is no reflection of the covenant at Mt Sinai. The old covenant was given in thunder, lightning, foreboding and death.

Mal 3: 6 “For I, the Lord, do not change; "
Heb 13: : 8 "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever."

Correct.

No wonder then for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

That is not what Isaiah says. This is what Isaiah says below.

Isaiah 66:23
"And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.

Be thank full that I'm here to help you Bob.

LoveGodsWord · May 2, 2020

BobRyan said:
You say "no" then post a text that says "yes"??

Ex 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Yep I saw that too and had a little laugh. Funny contradiction.

Studyman · May 2, 2020

klutedavid said:
Correct indeed. Jesus was the target of the Jews for claiming equality with God and for working on the Sabbath.

John 5:18
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

Jesus was definitely guilty on both counts.

Jesus broke their sabbath not God's. It was never against God's Sabbath Commandment to take a walk and eat a blackberry, or help someone in need. Jesus was only guilty of breaking their religious man made traditions.

It is untrue to accuse Jesus of Breaking God's Holy Sabbath.

Studyman · May 2, 2020

klutedavid said:
Funny reply. I am referring to the laws that God gave humanity through Noah.

Abraham misled the Egyptians by claiming that Sarah was his sister, when in fact, Sarah was Abraham's wife.

Genesis 12:18-19
Then Pharaoh called Abram and said, “What is this you have done to me? Why did you not tell me that she was your wife? Why did you say, ‘She is my sister,’ so that I took her for my wife? Now then, here is your wife, take her and go.'

Sarah was Abraham's sister.

Can you show me the Laws God gave mankind through Noah?

klutedavid · May 2, 2020

Studyman said:
Jesus broke their sabbath not God's. It was never against God's Sabbath Commandment to take a walk and eat a blackberry, or help someone in need. Jesus was only guilty of breaking their religious man made traditions.

It is untrue to accuse Jesus of Breaking God's Holy Sabbath.

Will you deny that Jesus was claiming equality with the Father?

klutedavid · May 2, 2020

Studyman said:
Sarah was Abraham's sister.

Can you show me the Laws God gave mankind through Noah?

You should know them off by heart. They were for all mankind and those were the only laws that Abraham knew.

The commandments given to Noah.

Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery, inappropriate behavior with animals, or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Genesis 9:17
And God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant (rainbow) which I have established between Me and all flesh that is on the earth.”

klutedavid · May 2, 2020

Studyman said:
Sarah was Abraham's sister.

Can you show me the Laws God gave mankind through Noah?

Correction. Sarah was Abraham's step sister.

Abraham did not tell the Egyptians that Sarah was his wife and let Pharaoh marry his wife. This resulted in a plague sent from God onto the Egyptian nation. Abraham deceived the Egyptians by not openly declaring that Sarah was already married to him.

JLB777 · May 3, 2020

Studyman said:
This wasn't for me but I will address it anyway. Your question is vague so I will bring some context.

God, in HIS Word written for my admonition, already addressed physical circumcision.

Duet. 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. 17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Jer. 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

Rom. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, (Stubborn and Stiffnecked) thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

So circumcision of the heart is most definitely a requirement to be saved. Circumcision of the Flesh, not so much. As Paul says;

1 Cor. 7: Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

As for "keeping the Law of Moses" to be saved. Why do I need saved? It is because I have Transgressed God's Commandments, YES? I have sin. So before I can be saved, this sin has to be dealt with or atoned for, because God says the "soul that sins shall die".

What does the "Law of Moses" say about how sins are forgiven? If I sin, what does Moses say to do?

Lev. 4:13 And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which should not be done, and are guilty; 14 When the sin, which they have sinned against it, is known, then the congregation shall offer a young bullock for the sin, and bring him before the tabernacle of the congregation. 15 And the elders of the congregation shall lay their hands upon the head of the bullock before the LORD: and the bullock shall be killed before the LORD. 16 And the priest that is anointed shall bring of the bullock's blood to the tabernacle of the congregation: 17 And the priest shall dip his finger in some of the blood, and sprinkle it seven times before the LORD, even before the vail.

20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

So do I believe we are justified by "Works of the LAW" of Moses? No, Levites are no longer my High Priest as it was for the Pharisees that didn't believe the SEED had Come.

We are under a NEW and BETTER Priesthood, Jesus washed my Transgressions of God's Law away with HIS OWN Blood. I no longer "receive the Law of God" through the Levitical Priesthood given Moses by God "Til the Seed should come", Jesus Himself, not only atones for my sins with HIS Own Blood, but also writes the Laws of God on my heart so that I will not forget them again..

So in the correct context, I do not believe cutting myself, or sprinkling turtle dove or cows blood on a rock saves me. But in Paul's time there was an entire religion which taught just that.

It’s a simple aNd straightforward question, that requires a simple straightforward answer; nothing vague about it.

Do you believe a person must become physically circumcised and keep the law of Moses to be saved?

Yes or No?

You do understand that in order to participate in the law of Moses, which includes keeping the Sabbath, a man must first become physically circumcised? Right?

JLB

Studyman · May 3, 2020

JLB777 said:
It’s a simple aNd straightforward question, that requires a simple straightforward answer; nothing vague about it.

Do you believe a person must become physically circumcised and keep the law of Moses to be saved?

Yes or No?

You do understand that in order to participate in the law of Moses, which includes keeping the Sabbath, a man must first become physically circumcised? Right?
JLB

You have your religion and your religious views and you are free to believe as you wish.

I posted what God's Word said about Circumcision and about how sins are forgiven in the old Covenant. I let HIM answer the question you posed. I won't be bullied by your attempts to convince me your voice is superior to that of the Holy Scriptures.

JLB777 · May 3, 2020

Studyman said:
You have your religion and your religious views and you are free to believe as you wish.

I posted what God's Word said about Circumcision and about how sins are forgiven in the old Covenant. I let HIM answer the question you posed. I won't be bullied by your attempts to convince me your voice is superior to that of the Holy Scriptures.

There are many more commandments than ten.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

Notice that those who promote false doctrine, the doctrine of man, which is heresy, also do not inherit the kingdom of God.

Wherever I see a person talking about the “Ten Commandments”, I know they are promoting a man made doctrine, because they are deceived. They are many more than just ten.

uncleanness
contentions,
jealousies,
outbursts of wrath,
selfish ambitions,
dissensions,
heresies,
envy,
drunkenness,
revelries, and the like;

Why don’t any Sabbath keepers mention these?

Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10

Studyman · May 3, 2020

klutedavid said:
Will you deny that Jesus was claiming equality with the Father?

You are preaching to the world that Jesus broke God' s Sabbath Commandment. This is a false teaching. A teaching that could not exist except for the "other religious voice" in the garden. You are just regurgitating centuries old false teaching.

Rather than act as if you didn't just get corrected by a loving brother, and say thank you, you just moved on to the next wind of doctrine.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

This is the second time you have taken the word of the Pharisees over the actual Words of the Christ Himself. They accused HIM of many things. ALL their accusations were lies.

I hope you might reconsider some of your religious views.

Studyman · May 3, 2020

klutedavid said:
You should know them off by heart. They were for all mankind and those were the only laws that Abraham knew.

The commandments given to Noah.

Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery, inappropriate behavior with animals, or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

Genesis 9:17
And God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant (rainbow) which I have established between Me and all flesh that is on the earth.”

You are missing a few.

Thou shall not hate thy brother in thy heart

Thou shall not look on the nakedness of thy father

Thou shall love the Lord thy God

Thou shall make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

Passover (Gen. 14:18 and Gen. 22:8)

For a complete list of the Laws of God Abraham obeyed, you can go to Moses and believe him.

As Jesus said;

"And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

And again;

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Just keep in mind that Levi wasn't born until much later, so the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for atonement of sins were not "ADDED" until 430 years after Abraham. Paul speaks to this Law of Works in Romans 3 and Galatians, among other places.

Studyman · May 3, 2020

klutedavid said:
Correction. Sarah was Abraham's step sister.

Abraham did not tell the Egyptians that Sarah was his wife and let Pharaoh marry his wife. This resulted in a plague sent from God onto the Egyptian nation. Abraham deceived the Egyptians by not openly declaring that Sarah was already married to him.

I am glad you are not my judge. But just so folks can see what truly happened according to the actual Scriptures, I will post the account. And I will remind you that Abraham is not a liar in the God's Eyes, your eyes maybe, but not God's. So therefore, he is not a liar in my eyes. You can place your judgment on him if you like, it is a common practice among religious men. As for me, God's Judgment is good enough for me.

Gen. 20:1 And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar.

2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.

3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.

4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?

5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.

6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.

7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

8 Therefore Abimelech rose early in the morning, and called all his servants, and told all these things in their ears: and the men were sore afraid.

9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.

10 And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing?

11 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.

12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

13 And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.

14 And Abimelech took sheep, and oxen, and menservants, and womenservants, and gave them unto Abraham, and restored him Sarah his wife.

15 And Abimelech said, Behold, my land is before thee: dwell where it pleaseth thee.

16 And unto Sarah he said, Behold, I have given thy brother a thousand pieces of silver: behold, he is to thee a covering of the eyes, unto all that are with thee, and with all other: thus she was reproved.

17 So Abraham prayed unto God: and God healed Abimelech, and his wife, and his maidservants; and they bare children.

18 For the LORD had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife.

Studyman · May 3, 2020

JLB777 said:
There are many more commandments than ten.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

Notice that those who promote false doctrine, the doctrine of man, which is heresy, also do not inherit the kingdom of God.

Wherever I see a person talking about the “Ten Commandments”, I know they are promoting a man made doctrine, because they are deceived. They are many more than just ten.

uncleanness
contentions,
jealousies,
outbursts of wrath,
selfish ambitions,
dissensions,
heresies,
envy,
drunkenness,
revelries, and the like;

Why don’t any Sabbath keepers mention these?

Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10

Can you point to a place where I said, implied or even suggested there are only 10 Commandments? I only mention the 4th Commandment because that is the one universally Polluted by religious man since the Exodus.

And I agree with some of your post. Man made doctrines and Traditions are truly Heresy.

Consider the following.

Images of God in the likeness of some remarkably handsome, long haired men's hair shampoo model. Man made Feasts unto the Lord like Easter, Christmas, Halloween, 6th Day Sabbath. The rejection of the Christ's Feasts. The rejection of God's Judgments regarding HIS definition of Holy and Clean. The list goes on and on.

Jesus was a Sabbath Keeper and HE didn't forget the rest of HIS Fathers Commandments. Your judgment is not from above.

ralliann · May 3, 2020

Studyman said:
Just keep in mind that Levi wasn't born until much later, so the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for atonement of sins were not "ADDED" until 430 years after Abraham. Paul speaks to this Law of Works in Romans 3 and Galatians, among other places.

Not born but present.....
Levi was yet in the loins of Abraham when Melchizedek met him.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

Studyman · May 3, 2020

ralliann said:
Not born but present.....
Levi was yet in the loins of Abraham when Melchizedek met him.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

This is true, just as Jesus the man was not born yet, but present in the loins of Abraham. But Levi wasn't given the Priesthood until 430 years later. Abraham's High Priest was Melchizedek, who has no beginning and no end.

The point is God ADDED the Priesthood Covenant with LEVI on Israel's behalf, on Mt. Sinai 430 years after Abraham.

As it is written;

Heb. 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are (Already) priests that offer gifts according to the law: (The Law Abraham did not have, but was ADDED 430 year later)

Abraham was not under this Priesthood. His Sin was atoned for "Apart" from the Law of Atonement given to Levi on Israel's behalf. He was cleansed, or made righteous "Apart" for the Law, A Priesthood Law that was ADDED to something. My understanding is that it was ADDED to the Laws, Commandments, Judgments and Statutes of the Eternal God that Abraham obeyed. A "Way of the Lord" that was given by covenant to Abraham and then to Abraham's Children when they had lost sight of the teaching of Jacob and Joseph.

Can you see the point here?

ralliann · May 3, 2020

Studyman said:
This is true, just as Jesus the man was not born yet, but present in the loins of Abraham. But Levi wasn't given the Priesthood until 430 years later. Abraham's High Priest was Melchizedek, who has no beginning and no end.

The point is God ADDED the Priesthood Covenant with LEVI on Israel's behalf, on Mt. Sinai 430 years after Abraham.

As it is written;

Heb. 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are (Already) priests that offer gifts according to the law: (The Law Abraham did not have, but was ADDED 430 year later)

Abraham was not under this Priesthood. His Sin was atoned for "Apart" from the Law of Atonement given to Levi on Israel's behalf. He was cleansed, or made righteous "Apart" for the Law, A Priesthood Law that was ADDED to something. My understanding is that it was ADDED to the Laws, Commandments, Judgments and Statutes of the Eternal God that Abraham obeyed. A "Way of the Lord" that was given by covenant to Abraham and then to Abraham's Children when they had lost sight of the teaching of Jacob and Joseph.

Can you see the point here?

No

Was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Did Adam and Eve keep each seventh-day Sabbath?

Yes

No

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