Can the day or hour be known?

Can the day or hour be known prior to Christ's second coming?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 4.2%
  • No

    Votes: 23 95.8%

  • Total voters
    24

com7fy8

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I’m not promoting any particular end time view but I do believe that no one will be able to know the day or hour prior to Christ’s coming. I have been using Matthew 24:36 as a litmus test for deciding which end time views I should study further. However I want to re-examine my view on this and would like to get input on whether the day and hour can be known.
I think it can be known; but just because you can do something, this does not automatically mean it is God's will.

What we can do is be ready . . . the way God will have us be for that day. And Jesus does say to be "ready" > Matthew 24:44. And by becoming this way, already we are experiencing how it will be, and how to be is so much better than only knowing a date or something like that.

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

And in God's light we will see what He wants us to see.

Have you noticed how many people give their attention to when, but they do not say a word about how to be "ready"? If people give a lot of attention to figuring out when and what will happen, but they give no attention to how to become "ready", what does this mean? If Jesus says to be "ready", but people pay no attention to this, who are they paying attention to?
 
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jgr

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Sign is implied, but it is Daniel 9. He confirms (strengthens or affirm) a 7 year covenant. And in the midst of that 7 years he violates the covenant.

The word "antichrist" does not exist in ancient Hebrew, so "antichrist" cannot be present in Daniel 9, or anywhere else in the OT.
 
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grafted branch

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This clearance of the “evil neighbors” as described in Jeremiah 12:14-17, will allow every faithful Christian Israelite of God, Galatians 3:26-29 to join the remnant of their brethren in all of the holy Land.

I have been looking at some of the verses you gave and have a question. In Jeremiah 12:17 it says if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the Lord.

Certainly no person or entire nation is going to be completely obedient. Are there any verses that give the specifics on what the criteria is for God to consider a nation non-obedient?
 
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Davy

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Those disobedient Christians. They should have stayed where they were in Jerusalem and Judaea and been slaughtered by the Romans, rather than heeding Jesus' warning, fleeing, and surviving.

Will God ever forgive them?

That was not about the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. It's about the last part of Isaiah 61:2 which Jesus did not read for His Ministry, because that last part is for His 2nd coming which has not... happened yet today. The fact that you quoted me on that part and at the same time denied with your response reveals you may have a reading comprehension problem.
 
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jgr

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His 2nd coming is what these Luke 21 verses are about...

Luke 21:20-22
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

KJV

That was not about the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. It's about the last part of Isaiah 61:2 which Jesus did not read for His Ministry, because that last part is for His 2nd coming which has not... happened yet today. The fact that you quoted me on that part and at the same time denied with your response reveals you may have a reading comprehension problem.

Apparently you have a problem comprehending your own post, in which you quoted Luke 21:20-22.

The Christians in Judaea fled to the mountains prior to 70 AD.

Unlike modernist dispensational futurism, they understood Jesus' warning, and acted upon it.

It certainly is "about the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans."
 
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keras

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I have been looking at some of the verses you gave and have a question. In Jeremiah 12:17 it says if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the Lord.

Certainly no person or entire nation is going to be completely obedient. Are there any verses that give the specifics on what the criteria is for God to consider a nation non-obedient?
Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbors who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and also I will pluck out the House of Judah as well. After I have removed them, I will Return and have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them.

This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people.

1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5

2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27

3/ My people; the true Israelites of God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10

The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Jeremiah 10:18, excepting a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:4

This will allow the gathering and settling of His righteous Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses and display His light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

Non obedience of a nation is described in Zechariah 14:16-19
 
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Dorothy Mae

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I think it can be known; but just because you can do something, this does not automatically mean it is God's will.

What we can do is be ready . . . the way God will have us be for that day. And Jesus does say to be "ready" > Matthew 24:44. And by becoming this way, already we are experiencing how it will be, and how to be is so much better than only knowing a date or something like that.

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

And in God's light we will see what He wants us to see.

Have you noticed how many people give their attention to when, but they do not say a word about how to be "ready"? If people give a lot of attention to figuring out when and what will happen, but they give no attention to how to become "ready", what does this mean? If Jesus says to be "ready", but people pay no attention to this, who are they paying attention to?
So what does “be ready” mean for you?
 
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parousia70

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Ok, excellent verse you gave.

Matthew 24:36 says no knows the day or hour and Revelation 1:9-10 says that John was in the spirit on the Lord’s day. I have never noticed that before, but it certainly could mean that John saw the visions on the actual day described in Matthew 24:30.

I’m going to have to study this some more.

The following terms are synonymous:

The Wrath of the Lord = the Lord's Wrath
The Mercy of the Lord = the Lord's Mercy
The Vengeance of the Lord = The Lord's Vengeance
The Grace of the Lord = the Lord's Grace

And,
The Day of the Lord = the Lord's Day

If we were to say the Day of the Lord is NOT the same thing as the Lord's Day, then we would likewise have to say the Mercy of the Lord is NOT the same as the Lord's Mercy... or Grace, Vengeance, Wrath... and so on...
 
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com7fy8

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Certainly no person or entire nation is going to be completely obedient. Are there any verses that give the specifics on what the criteria is for God to consider a nation non-obedient?
First, I would say we could talk about what is most important to being obedient, so you might see what I mean by not being obedient and why this could mean major trouble for an individual or a whole nation.

By the way, when God says He will punish a whole nation, I think He could mean a nation of the unbelievers in a country. We in Jesus, possibly, are now considered to be citizens of the "holy nation" of Christ > 1 Peter 2:9. So, if we are being obedient, a whole nation being punished where we live would not include us >

"Only with your eyes shall you look,
.And see the reward of the wicked."

. . . . . . . . . . . . . (Psalm 91:8)

Even so . . . who does the Bible say gets judged "first"? > 1 Peter 4:17. And going by Romans 8:29 I understand we will be evaluated in comparison with Jesus, and if we have loved the way He wants, of course.

So, may be I can multi-task here, helping to answer your question and at the same time answering >

So what does “be ready” mean for you?
An obedient person is getting ready for Jesus who says "be ready" in Matthew 24:44. Now, to "be" means, I understand, how we are, and not only how we act or reform our ways of thinking. So, I think Jesus means how we need to become in our character; He does not mean only to change our actions and beliefs.

And I notice how in His Sermon on the Mount, the very first thing Jesus talks about is how to be > "poor in spirit" (in Matthew 5:3); personally, I think this means how we are "poor" in our hearts, meaning we don't care about having the things of this world, and we are so pleased and unconditionally satisfied with God and His love, and therefore "content with such things as you have" (in Hebrews 13:5).

And then in verses thereafter, He says we need to be "merciful", "meek", and "pure in heart". This all makes us like Jesus so we are compatible with our soon-coming Groom.

And our Apostle Paul says how we can do great things, but we are nothing and profited nothing if we do not have love > 1 Corinthians 13:1-3.

How we relate in love is essential, then, I would say, so we are ready for Jesus and family sharing and caring love with Him and one another in the Rapture and for all eternity.

So, yes I would say Jesus means for us to become like Him in our character and to relate in His love now, the way we will be sharing and caring in the Rapture. We need to be doing now what we will be doing in the Rapture . . . loving this way now so we are ready to love like this with Jesus when He comes.

And we have scriptures which can feed us how God's love has us relating > here are some of the things God's word says about this >

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation," (in Philippians 2:13-16)

And Ephesians 1:4 says that God wants us to "be holy and without blame before Him in love".

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:18)

So, I understand and trust God, that He wants us to become how His love has us become in our character, so we are ready for "the day of judgment", and therefore ready to spend eternity in sharing with God and one another as His family, in His family caring and sharing way of loving.

So, if people do not obey these Bible basics of how to be and how to relate in love . . . this is a main way people are disobeying God. And this evil world is set up to provide many ways to keep our attention away from seeking how God is able to change us to be like Jesus. This world is constantly trying to misdirect our attention so we get tangled up (2 Timothy 2:4) in trying to reform people's actions and beliefs, and so we get tied up with judging politicians and certain worldly religious leaders instead of doing the praying that God's word says to do "first of all" > 1 Timothy 2:1-4. And ones can do nothing but call attention to when and what will happen, in a way which keeps people's attention away from how to be "ready".

So, then, when will Jesus come? - - - when God has Christ's Bride Church "ready", in my opinion. If I am correct . . . the number-one sign of Christ's return will be the prepared church of Christ; and this sign will mainly be "in the sight of God", I consider; and so, @Dorothy Mae > this is why I already gave you 1 Peter 3:4 where I was talking about how we need to be "ready" > so we are "in the sight of God" the way He desires for us to be >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

So, the ones who will be judged will include ones who disobey this, by making a project of calling attention away from this, to various worldly things. Because there is indeed a set-up of Satan's conspiracy to control our attention away from God and how His word says to become like Jesus and to love like Jesus.

By being and loving like Jesus our Groom, we are compatible with Him now and later; here is another scripture about how we can love so even now we are compatible with our Groom Jesus and with one another >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)
 
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nolidad

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Where Daniel mention antichrist?

Daniel 9:26-27 King James Version (KJV)
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The Prince in 26 and he in 27.

Dan. 7: 8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Amongst others.
 
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solid_core

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Well, we should first classify various views:
a) preterism - prophecies were about the end of the age, not about the end of the material world and happened in the first century
b) historicism - prophecies have been continually fullfilled throughout history
c) futurism - prophecies will be fullfilled in our future

You will get very different answers depending on from which camp are the people who are answering. Almost nobody is willing to give more possibilities than their own.
 
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nolidad

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The word "antichrist" does not exist in ancient Hebrew, so "antichrist" cannot be present in Daniel 9, or anywhere else in the OT.

The Word trinity never appears in the bible so stop using that Word! Are you really wanting to strain at gnats like this? It doesn't appear, but I assume that unless you have lived in a cave, the term antichrist is a common term to describe th eone who has about 20 or so monikers in SCripture!
 
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jgr

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The Word trinity never appears in the bible so stop using that Word! Are you really wanting to strain at gnats like this? It doesn't appear, but I assume that unless you have lived in a cave, the term antichrist is a common term to describe th eone who has about 20 or so monikers in SCripture!

Your claim is that the prince in Daniel 9:26 is antichrist.
There is only one individual identified as a prince in Daniel 9. He is Messiah (Daniel 9:25).
Christ, the Messiah, is identified explicitly, specifically, and unequivocally as a prince in multiple instances in both the OT and NT: Isaiah 9:6; Daniel 9:25; Acts 3:15; Acts 5:31; Revelation 1:5.
Antichrist is identified explicitly, specifically, and unequivocally as a prince nowhere in Scripture.
Modernist dispensational futurism's antichrist is a figment of its delusion.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Daniel 9:26-27 King James Version (KJV)
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The Prince in 26 and he in 27.

Dan. 7: 8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Amongst others.
Where does he say that is antichrist? Even John himself, who was the only one to use the term, never mentions antichrist in Revelation. Not once. Actually John says there are many antichrists.

I know the eschatology and it ASSUMES one man antichrist which was obviously not in the mind of John when he wrote Revelation.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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The Word trinity never appears in the bible so stop using that Word! Are you really wanting to strain at gnats like this? It doesn't appear, but I assume that unless you have lived in a cave, the term antichrist is a common term to describe th eone who has about 20 or so monikers in SCripture!
That’s an assumption. It is more likely writers are referring to different men at different times and places. Only one relatively new eschatology turned them into one bogey man.
 
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Davy

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Apparently you have a problem comprehending your own post, in which you quoted Luke 21:20-22.

The Christians in Judaea fled to the mountains prior to 70 AD.

Unlike modernist dispensational futurism, they understood Jesus' warning, and acted upon it.

It certainly is "about the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans."

So you deny the Isaiah 61:2 phrase "days of vengeance"??? which is for Jesus' 2nd coming at the end of this world?

Of course you have... to deny it, in order to serve men's traditions of Preterism, a false doctrine.

(I am not a dispensationalist. I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. Since you cannot slap those kind of labels on me, then you ought to be wondering how I still know Christ's 2nd coming is STILL FUTURE. It's simple, just keep to God's Word as written instead of heeding men's false traditions like you do.)
 
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Dorothy Mae

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So you deny the Isaiah 61:2 phrase "days of vengeance"??? which is for Jesus' 2nd coming at the end of this world?
I believe in the second coming in the future. But Vengeance for what? Jerusalem experienced His vengeance because they crucified the son of God. The blood of all the prophets was required of that generation. They experienced his wrath and fur good reason.
Of course you have... to deny it, in order to serve men's traditions of Preterism, a false doctrine.
Labels make it easier to calls names.
(I am not a dispensationalist. I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. Since you cannot slap those kind of labels on me, then you ought to be wondering how I still know Christ's 2nd coming is STILL FUTURE.
If you believe their eschatology, you are one. Btw, we believe the 2nd coming is in the future. What label should we wear?
 
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jgr

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So you deny the Isaiah 61:2 phrase "days of vengeance"??? which is for Jesus' 2nd coming at the end of this world?

Nothing to do with the Second Coming.

Luke 21
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

The "days of vengeance" refers to the same days as the days in which those who were in Judaea were to flee into the mountains.

And flee they did, heeding Jesus' warning.

They were the days of God's vengeance upon Jerusalem and Judaea.

Prophesied by Isaiah, confirmed by Christ, and fulfilled in 70 AD.

Not in the indeterminate future of modernist dispensational delusionism.
 
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Davy

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I believe in the second coming in the future. But Vengeance for what? Jerusalem experienced His vengeance because they crucified the son of God. The blood of all the prophets was required of that generation. They experienced his wrath and fur good reason.
Labels make it easier to calls names. If you believe their eschatology, you are one. Btw, we believe the 2nd coming is in the future. What label should we wear?

So you didn't really read my post?

Look at Luke 4 where Jesus quoted from Isaiah 61:1-2 at the start of His Ministry.

He stopped reading right before He got to that "day of vengeance" phrase, but instead closed the Book and said what He read was right then fulfilled. He didn't read that last part of Isaiah 61:2 "day of vengeance" because that is about His 2nd coming.

Thus the "days of vengeance" of Luke 21 is about Jesus' FUTURE 2nd coming, and that last part of Luke 21:22 proves that timing as well. Continued reading there in Luke 21 gives even more evidence that the time there is about His 2nd coming, which is still future to us.
 
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