The Judgment Seat: By Torah or By Christ

Minister Monardo said:

2 Corinthians 5:10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
John 12:48. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Matthew 12:36. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Romans 2:16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

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And it’s appointed once unto men once to die but after this the judgment. You want to die the first death here and go through the judgment here. It must first begin at the house of God.
Heb.9

1. [27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Minister Monardo said:

Yeshua used both the terms "law of Moses" and "the law and the prophets", and rightfully so, for they spoke by that One Spirit. Law of Moses=Pentateuch, Prophets=anointed men and women who elaborated on the Will of God, issuing "correction in righteousness'.
Isaiah 8:20. To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

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so are you saying Moses wrote the entire Pentateuch and everything contained therein is law?

Minister Monardo said:

No. If there is something you would like to say on the matter, say on.

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no ... I had asked for definition of law of Moses and you cited the Pentateuch ... so was just unclear to me

eleos1954 said:

so are you saying Moses wrote the entire Pentateuch and everything contained therein is law?

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The law of Moses & God is the first 5 books of the Bible

I believe in judgments made it will be Jesus's words that prevail.

Minister Monardo said:

2 Corinthians 5:10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
John 12:48. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Matthew 12:36. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Romans 2:16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

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This is a vastly misunderstood passage of Scriptures that Christian get ensnared by!

2 Cor. 5:10 corresponds to 1 Cor. 3:11-15. The judgment seat that believers stand before jesus is known as the Bema seat! It is not a place of judgment for crimes or bad but a place where ones works are looked at and rewards given for works that endure. IOW Our works done in the name of Jesus are scrutinized. Any work that was done in the flesh will be lost but the works done in the Spirit will remain and rewards given.

This "bema" was used in the games where all who stood before it were qualified, but rewards given and also in military gatherings. All the soldiers were accepted, but wreaths and batons awarded for good deeds! It is not a judgment for sin. All of our sin was judged and punished in Jesus!

Hmm.. its not "Moshes" Moses law. Its GODS word. Yes I know what Christ said for all of it is truth. Even then telling them Moses wrote of Him.. they could not understand nor see it. There are those that don't believe its ALL Gods word. Anyway.. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. So before anything was written.. The WORD was always here. Its HIM one in the same. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Who is HIM? That book.. bible Torah.. without Him was not anything made that was made.

Minister Monardo said:

This description of bema based on how it was used for competitions makes it sound quite pleasant. Yet bema was used to describe the judgment seat of Pilate, who ordered Christ flogged, and then released Him to be crucified. Also used in Acts for when Paul is examined by the authorities.
I agree this is not judgment to condemnation, for Paul says:
1 Co 3:15. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
This follows what he says in v. 13:
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
In 2 Co 5:10 cited, Paul continues with:
Verse 11:Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
Again, not the pleasant games award ceremony of the extra-Biblical use of the word bema that you cite.
It is for this reason that John exhorts us also:
1 John 3:3. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
2 John 1:8. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
So we see that we can fall short of the full reward that has been ordained for us if we become seduced by the grace doctrine that suggests how we live does not amount to much because Christ already paid the price for our sins. We can even lose things that we have once wrought.
It is as you have well said, it is not judgment for sin, but it is judgment of faithfulness.
This is why Paul describes it as "he shall suffer loss".
Hebrews 2:3. How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him.
Thanks for bringing up this issue, as it can be a source of confusion, and a snare.
Peace of Christ with you and yours.

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Well I do not believe in teh cheap grace doctrine, but realize grace teaches us to live holy lives as grace through the Spirit makes us new creatures. but we cannot lose our salvation.

As for Pilates Judgment seat (bema) The pharisees brought Jesus to the fortress Antoninus which was attached to the temple. They stood in the gabbatha adjacent to the praetorium. The normal use of this place was for military gatherings for the purpose of awarding soldiers.

Pilate normally judged inside, but due to the crowds, and the fact that it being the stadrt of the feast of unleavened bread (the 2nd day of Pesach) teh Pharisees could not enter the inside of the palace or would be defiled, so he judged where he normally sits and watch troops in review!

Minister Monardo said:

2 Corinthians 5:10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
John 12:48. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Matthew 12:36. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Romans 2:16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

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The whole Bible presents God's will, which no one can obey perfectly. We are born spiritually dead to God (Ephesians 2:1-3). Therefore, unless someone rescues us, we are on our way to eternal separation from God. Jesus' perfect obedience to God's will, including the Torah, and his choice as our Substitute in death give believers eternal life in God the Father's presence.

God's rescue by way of Jesus' triumph (life, death, and resurrection) gives his people the gift of faith through his grace (free acceptance--Ephesians 2:4-9). The inevitable result is our thankful actions expressing his love to others (Ephesians 2:10). That last step continues our whole lives after we believe. It is on the basis of these good works that God will determine our position in his final kingdom.

Therefore, it's not just the Old Testament and Jesus' words but also Paul, Peter, John, and James' words inspired by God that are the standards by which we are judged guilty unless we trust only in Jesus for his rescue. Then we are not guilty and welcomed into God's glorious kingdom.

Ivan Hlavanda said:

Just out of curiosity. There was no law before Moses, so by what did God judge people before Moses and what law did they follow? It was none wasn't it, and yet they were guilty of sin and yet they had to have a faith.

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The existence of sin requires there to be a standard of what is and is not sin, that standard is God's law, and there is much evidence of many of God's laws being in place before they were given at Sinai. For example, in Genesis 4:7, God told Cain that sin was crouching at the door and that he must master it, which implies that he already knew what sin is and that he must have been given God's law. He must have been instructed in how to make an offering, it was sinful for him to hate Abel, and the fact that he was concerned about being avenged and given protection shows that he was treated in accordance with the instructions in Deuteronmy 19 for how to treat someone who has committed accidental manslaughter.

Likewise, in Genesis 6:8-9, it says that Noah found grace in the eyes of God and that he was a righteous man, so he was trained by grace how to do what is righteous and was righteous because he obeyed by faith. In Genesis 7:2, Noah was told what to do with clean and unclean animals without being told how to tell the difference and in 8:20, he knew to offer a clean animal, so he must have been previously instructed it that regard.

In Genesis 39:9, Joseph knew that it was a sin against God to commit adultery.

Minister Monardo said:

2 Corinthians 5:10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
John 12:48. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Matthew 12:36. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Romans 2:16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

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The same Father who command the Mosaic Law also sent Christ, so there is no difference. Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced. In John 14:24, Jesus said that his teachings were not his t, but that of the Father.

Jesus is my Superhero said:

Being merciful and forgiving may provide just enough of a nudge to to enter through the narrow gate!

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“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. Matthew 23:23

...While mercy and forgiveness are very important, it is important to know that they are definitely not all that is needed to enter into the kingdom of heaven...

You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”John 5:39‭, ‬45‭-‬47

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-20

Minister Monardo said:

2 Corinthians 5:10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
John 12:48. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Matthew 12:36. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Romans 2:16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

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Very Scary and sobering.
But I wonder how does this correlated to the verse where it says he throws your sins are far as the east is to the west?

Thank you