Is the Mormon Concept of Eternal Marriage the Same as Orthodox Christian Eternal Marriage?

truefiction1 · Apr 30, 2020

He is the way said:
You said: "He is going to His God and to our God, He says thus according to the human nature that he took on His person when He became flesh."

So you are saying the resurrected Christ is still clinging to His mortal flesh and blood and is wrong? Christ does not lie, His Father is indeed His God and Father.

You said: "Jesus and the Father, along with the Spirit are One God, without beginning and without change."

They are one God in glory and perfection just as Jesus said:

(New Testament | John 17:21 - 23)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

The flesh of the Logos of God remains an aspect of His Person after His resurrection and Ascension, and forevermore. It is a transformed, supernatural and incorruptible flesh and blood. After the resurrection, we shall all be transformed, when what is "perishable puts on the imperishable" (1 Corinthians 15:53). Our mortal bodies will be clothed with immortality, just as promised in God's Word.

Tolworth John · May 1, 2020

He is the way said:
Well we know that God the Father is the Father and God of Jesus:

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

That puts you lower than demons, they know that the Lord is God and shudder.

Nothing to say about your pagan beliefs that you will become a God of your own world?

He is the way · May 1, 2020

Tolworth John said:
That puts you lower than demons, they know that the Lord is God and shudder.

Nothing to say about your pagan beliefs that you will become a God of your own world?

Yes Jesus Is a God, but the Father is our God:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:5 - 7)

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

(New Testament | Philippians 3:12 - 16)

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Ironhold · May 1, 2020

dzheremi said:
What does this even mean in the context of a theology in which there are many, many (potentially infinite) "God the Father"s?

If you'll recall Psalms 82, the term "god" is used in reference even to judges and high political officials. Jesus calls back to this in the Gospel of John, and uses it to talk about the prospect of people becoming higher beings.

dzheremi · May 1, 2020

Ironhold said:
If you'll recall Psalms 82, the term "god" is used in reference even to judges and high political officials. Jesus calls back to this in the Gospel of John, and uses it to talk about the prospect of people becoming higher beings.

Fine, but that's not what I'm asking about. I'm asking what it means to reserve "God" for God the Father alone when in Mormonism it seems like there is this idea that God the Father had a Father himself, who likewise had a Father, who likewise had a Father, etc (as expressed at the link).

If there are so many "God the Father"s, what does it mean to say that "God" only applies to Him? Which one of the many "God the Father"s are you talking about?

Ironhold · May 1, 2020

dzheremi said:
Fine, but that's not what I'm asking about. I'm asking what it means to reserve "God" for God the Father alone when in Mormonism it seems like there is this idea that God the Father had a Father himself, who likewise had a Father, who likewise had a Father, etc (as expressed at the link).

If there are so many "God the Father"s, what does it mean to say that "God" only applies to Him? Which one of the many "God the Father"s are you talking about?

Let's try to frame it this way.

You somehow find out that you are a character in a book someone's writing.

That effectively, for all intents and purposes, makes the writer the ultimate deity in your existence, correct?

Logically, there are other people out there, but it's the writer you're having anything to do with at the moment.

dzheremi · May 1, 2020

Again, that doesn't really answer my question. In a religion where there are potentially endless "God the Father"s, what does it even mean to say you only recognize "God the Father" as God? That's seemingly not one person. Or do you just pick one out of the endless line and say that this one is the one who is your "God the Father", and the other "God the Fathers" (maybe the father of yours, or of another) are not worshiped?

I don't understand this. Your analogy doesn't really help because in it there is clearly one author, and nothing is said about the author's parents, so it doesn't matter. But it seems like in Mormonism it matters quite a bit that God the Father himself had a Father, and so on. I mean, that's what the Mormon in that post was making a point of saying, as though it is a Mormon theological distinction. I know Christians certainly don't believe in such things; that's why I'm asking you to explain it to me to begin with.

Tolworth John · May 1, 2020

He is the way said:
Yes Jesus Is a God, but the Father is our God:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:5 - 7)

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

(New Testament | Philippians 3:12 - 16)

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

You are being more gracious than I am.

I apologize .

As it says in John 1 to all who believe in his name he gave the right to be children of God.

Yes Paul talks about God as his heavenly Father for that is what he is.
As Paul says elsewhere we are co heirs with Jesus.

Being adopted into God's family does not make us god's.

truefiction1 · May 1, 2020

He is the way said:
Yes Jesus Is a God, but the Father is our God:

Jesus is our God. The Father is our God, and the Holy Spirit is our God -- all three of one Divine essence, of which no other Persons besides these have. They are not three different gods. They together comprise the only God that there is. "gods" are not God and can never be God. "gods" are only beings that were created by the Only God. They are gods only because of the gifts given to them by God, such as a mind and freewill. "gods" are gods only by grace, but not by nature. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the only God which is God by nature. Nobody created, or gave birth to the Father, and the Son and Spirit are His own Logos and Spirit Who were always present with Him. None of these three have a beginning, but we, who are only God's creatures, have our beginning in time/history. God created time itself, before time even existed. It is God's creation.
We just commemorated the Sunday of Thomas, the Apostle. And with Him, we who believe that Jesus Christ is both Lord and God, say to Him: "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28)

The Liturgist · May 1, 2020

Tolworth John said:
I am not bothered about orthodox teaching on marriage in heaven. We will find that out ( hopefully you are correct )

It is wanting to discuss Christian concepts with a pagan that I find strange.

I don’t think it is correct to refer to Mormons as Pagans at all; rather I think the term Pagan should be reserved for practitioners of the ancient polytheistic religions, of the sort which were banned in the Roman Empire by Emperor Theodosius II around 390 AD (around the same time he destroyed the Altar of Victory in the Curia of the Roman Senate). Hinduism, the Voudon religions of Benin, the Carribean and so on, traditional Chinese religion, and the Falasha religion of Pakistan, are really the only authentic survivors of ancient Paganism, which did otherwise become extinct (the neo-Pagans of today are really not quite in the same category).

The Liturgist · May 1, 2020

truefiction1 said:
The flesh of the Logos of God remains an aspect of His Person after His resurrection and Ascension, and forevermore. It is a transformed, supernatural and incorruptible flesh and blood. After the resurrection, we shall all be transformed, when what is "perishable puts on the imperishable" (1 Corinthians 15:53). Our mortal bodies will be clothed with immortality, just as promised in God's Word.

I agree on thus point. I would be surprised if the Mormons didn’t. I’ve lately been researching their theology, but its surprisingly complex and frankly a bit confusing.

The Liturgist · May 1, 2020

By the way, while I do not agree with the Mormon religion, I do like Mormon people, I do feel they have a desire to worship our Lord, which I hope counts for something, and I do frequently travel in some of the Mormon areas of the Rockies, and the people are very decent and embody Christian values.

I am fairly well acquainted with and do agree fairly emphatically with the Eastern Orthodox theology of matrimony, and also the EO approach to subjects such as divorce. The eternal, celestial marriage that Mormons can enter into through a “sealing” ritual in their temples strikes me as being a very different concept from any Eastern Orthodox or other mainstream Christian interpretation of the sacrament of Holy Matrimony.

Rescued One · May 2, 2020

truefiction1 said:
Is this true, @He is the way ? Is it your belief that you will become a god with your wife (or wives) being a god/gods also, propagating your own god-children on your own planet somewhere?

Mormons who strive for exaltation to Godhood are considered more worthy that those who don't. There are many laws and ordinances that must be obeyed.

Please read this article and you will learn a lot about Mormonism and their view of more orthodox beliefs. I've spent hours providing information since I joined CF, but I think people should learn everything in that article instead of only a synopsis.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng

Doctrine and Covenants 88:106-107
106 And again, another angel shall sound his trump, which is the seventh angel, saying: It is finished; it is finished! The Lamb of God hath overcome and trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.

107 And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.

Upper case or lower case, the person is equal to whatever god they call Heavenly Father.

Rescued One · May 2, 2020

The Liturgist said:
By the way, while I do not agree with the Mormon religion, I do like Mormon people, I do feel they have a desire to worship our Lord, which I hope counts for something, and I do frequently travel in some of the Mormon areas of the Rockies, and the people are very decent and embody Christian values.

I am fairly well acquainted with and do agree fairly emphatically with the Eastern Orthodox theology of matrimony, and also the EO approach to subjects such as divorce. The eternal, celestial marriage that Mormons can enter into through a “sealing” ritual in their temples strikes me as being a very different concept from any Eastern Orthodox or other mainstream Christian interpretation of the sacrament of Holy Matrimony.

“Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization anyhow. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster.”
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372; History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476)

Tolworth John · May 2, 2020

The Liturgist said:
I don’t think it is correct to refer to Mormons as Pagans at all; rather I think the term Pagan should be reserved for practitioners of the ancient polytheistic religions, of the sort which were banned in the Roman Empire by Emperor Theodosius II around 390 AD (around the same time he destroyed the Altar of Victory in the Curia of the Roman Senate). Hinduism, the Voudon religions of Benin, the Carribean and so on, traditional Chinese religion, and the Falasha religion of Pakistan, are really the only authentic survivors of ancient Paganism, which did otherwise become extinct (the neo-Pagans of today are really not quite in the same category).

Can you tell me what term I should use for a follower of a belief that uses Christian terminology but not as Christian use them.
You and I might squabble about how we understand the cross, the meaning of communio etc but we have a similar understanding.
Jesus is the second person of the trinity, we are adopted members of his family.
Not that Jesus is the brother of the devil that his Father is merely one of countless other gods all ruling there own worlds.

To me that is paganism.

He is the way · May 2, 2020

dzheremi said:
Again, that doesn't really answer my question. In a religion where there are potentially endless "God the Father"s, what does it even mean to say you only recognize "God the Father" as God? That's seemingly not one person. Or do you just pick one out of the endless line and say that this one is the one who is your "God the Father", and the other "God the Fathers" (maybe the father of yours, or of another) are not worshiped?

I don't understand this. Your analogy doesn't really help because in it there is clearly one author, and nothing is said about the author's parents, so it doesn't matter. But it seems like in Mormonism it matters quite a bit that God the Father himself had a Father, and so on. I mean, that's what the Mormon in that post was making a point of saying, as though it is a Mormon theological distinction. I know Christians certainly don't believe in such things; that's why I'm asking you to explain it to me to begin with.

We all have one God and Father:

(Old Testament | Malachi 2:10)

10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 10)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

dzheremi · May 3, 2020

He is the way said:
We all have one God and Father

If there is more than one "God the Father" in your religion, then what does that mean?

Peter1000 · May 3, 2020

dzheremi said:
If there is more than one "God the Father" in your religion, then what does that mean?

The answer is: there is not more than one "God the Father" in our religion.

We believe as Paul said:
1 Corinthians 8:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

We believe literally that there be gods many, and lords many, and we believe that is what Paul believes.

But we also believe that although there are gods and lords many, to us, there is but one God, the Father, of all things. So it does not matter to us that there are many gods doing what they do, even the Father of our God, we do not have knowledge, nor can we be caught up in what he is doing, are you kidding, we can't even get our arms around our one God, let alone try to settle the question of what other gods are doing.

So again, the answer is: we look no further than our God and our Father, the same God and Father we and Paul and you worship and that all men will eventually come to know. It is interesting, but has no impact on us to know there are other gods.

Peter1000 · May 3, 2020

Tolworth John said:
That puts you lower than demons, they know that the Lord is God and shudder.

Nothing to say about your pagan beliefs that you will become a God of your own world?

How does John 20:17 put us lower than demons?

Peter1000 · May 3, 2020

Tolworth John said:
That puts you lower than demons, they know that the Lord is God and shudder.

Nothing to say about your pagan beliefs that you will become a God of your own world?

Matthew 8:29 King James Version (KJV)
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Luke 4:41 King James Version (KJV)
41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

I did not have time to do a lot of research on this topic but the 2 scriptures that I did find do not say that the devils called Jesus God, but they called him "the Son of God", for they knew who he was.

We have no problem calling Jesus God, but in the same breath we have to acknowledge his Father who is God and the Holy Ghost who is God too. 3 distinct individuals are Gods in a singular Godhead.

So if we do what the devils knew, and call him the Son of God, then we have said it more properly, and we know his status in the Godhead.

If Jesus only is God, then the Trinity does not exist.

Is the Mormon Concept of Eternal Marriage the Same as Orthodox Christian Eternal Marriage?

Fool

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

Member

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

Well-Known Member

Fool

Traditional Liturgical Christian

Traditional Liturgical Christian

Traditional Liturgical Christian

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads