Is Christianity supposed to be unworldly?

Marumorose

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By unworldly I mean ascetically turning its back on the world and physical life itself.

When I look at the Bible, I see Paul saying that childless celibacy is better than marriage. I see the disciples abandoning their families to follow Christ. I see martyrdom actively embraced again, and again, and again. I see Apostles sent out with the instruction to give no thought to food or bodily sickness. I see Christians told not to defend themselves if struck, but to (famously) turn the other cheek. Heck I even see Christians fasting to the point of injuring their bodies (and possibly their minds), thinking here of various mystics.

When people say they want to bury their dead family member, they are told to leave it to others. When people say they are worried, they are told to give no concern to the worries of tomorrow (an instruction that makes farming impossible - as backed up by the use of sparrows who neither sow nor reap).

So I find myself wondering, is Christianity supposed to be about an abject denial and repudiation of physical life (with instead utmost emphasis placed instead on the 'here-after')?
Remember that in the beginning God gave us everything for free until Adam and Eve committed a sin and now we work so hard for food, childbirth is painful and we DIE!
But if we Love God and one another, and not the earthly things then he will give us the new earth in the book of Revelations.

May God Bless You
 
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lsume

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By unworldly I mean ascetically turning its back on the world and physical life itself.

When I look at the Bible, I see Paul saying that childless celibacy is better than marriage. I see the disciples abandoning their families to follow Christ. I see martyrdom actively embraced again, and again, and again. I see Apostles sent out with the instruction to give no thought to food or bodily sickness. I see Christians told not to defend themselves if struck, but to (famously) turn the other cheek. Heck I even see Christians fasting to the point of injuring their bodies (and possibly their minds), thinking here of various mystics.
When people say they want to bury their dead family member, they are told to leave it to others. When people say they are worried, they are told to give no concern to the worries of tomorrow (an instruction that makes farming impossible - as backed up by the use of sparrows who neither sow nor reap).
So I find myself wondering, is Christianity supposed to be about an abject denial and repudiation of physical life (with instead utmost emphasis placed instead on the 'here-after')?
With a dead family member a wannabe follower was told to “let the dead bury the dead”. How would you feel if someone told you that? You approach a charismatic stranger who speaks about heaven and God The Father and tell him that you want to be His disciple. When Christ was speaking to large crowd in John 6, He told them that they needed to eat His Flesh and drink His blood. For the most part, they didn’t understand what He was saying. The Word of God is filled with understanding that can only come directly from Christ. Try to imagine having your eyes and ears opened for the first time as an adult. The experience would be beyond exciting. For me, the most exciting day of my life happened over 30 years ago. When Christ came to me and opened my eyes, I knew exactly what was happening or so I thought. In part, I did know that I was being visited by Christ and that my eyes had been opened. What I didn’t know was the depth and beauty of the journey I was about to make. Imagine knowing with 100% confidence that The GodHead is very real. Also, please imagine experiencing The Perfect Love of God The Father. That Perfect love must be experienced before you can share in That Love. Love that is crushing with intensity exists before you can love. Does the understanding of God The Father include Seeing Him as very pitiful and with tender mercy. Please pray on and consider these Words; Tender, merciful, pitiful Perfect
Love. Since Christ was The Walking and Talking example of God The Father, how easy is it to Love Christ.
Jas.5
  1. [11] Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
Matt.8
  1. [22] But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Luke.9
  1. [60] Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.


If you love this life you will lose it. There is so much power in The Word of God that it cannot go out and return without a harvest.
John.12

  1. [25] He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
 
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nolidad

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Genesis says be married and have children. Paul says its better to be celibate (unmarried and childless).

Christianity is not Judaism.

And Paul also said that given the times they were living in. And that it is better to marry than burn.

And Jesus said celibacy is a gift from God!
 
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Josheb

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@Josheb Calling Paul uninspired? So you don't believe in the innerency of scripture but your going to lecture Inkfingers? Where do you get off?
Please quote me stating Paul was uninspired. Include the post number and if the quote isn't from this op then please link us to the op in which that statement occurs.

Otherwise, what I in fact posted was "Paul is stating his uninspired personal opinion that it would be best for the first century believers to remain unmarried as the awaited the pending persecution and judgment." That is not the same thing as saying Paul was uninspired. Paul's personal opinions are no more valuable than yours or mine when they depart from what God has clearly stated. This in no way implies errancy of scripture (I did address that implication already). I do, in fact, hold the scriptures inerrant and infallible in all to which they speak in original form and nothing I have written or will ever write should be construed to say otherwise.

And my posts explain where , why, and how I "get off". If that's not understood then go back and re-read them and re-read them as often as it takes to be correctly understood.

So either evidence me calling Paul uninspired or acknowledge the error, repent, and make amends for the baseless insinuations posted.
 
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friend of

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Please quote me stating Paul was uninspired.

Gladly. See below.

Paul is stating his uninspired personal opinion that it would be best for the first century believers to remain unmarried as the awaited the pending persecution and judgment.

There is a reason God saw fit to have Paul place his somewhat misguided personal opinions into scripture.

To say Paul harbored "Uninspired" and "Misguided" Personal Opinions, well, that does not square with the object that is biblical inerrancy. Either Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write his letters and everything contained therein, or he was not, and was fallible. You can't have it both ways. If you think Paul was wrong in respect to his views on marriage and celibacy, then what else would you accuse him of misunderstanding? This very position, based on your comments, is borderline heretical.

Paul's personal opinions are no more valuable than yours or mine when they depart from what God has clearly stated. This in no way implies errancy of scripture (I did address that implication already).

Except they were not mere personal opinions unless Paul was only quasi-inspired by the Spirit. There are no half-measures here.
 
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Josheb

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Gladly. See below.

To say Paul harbored "Uninspired" and "Misguided" Personal Opinions, well, that does not square with the object that is biblical inerrancy.
Sure it does. The Bible contains many reports of people doing and saying false or mistaken things. It records David killing two men and marrying their wives. It records the wisest man to ever live saying life is meaningless. It records Job challenging God. It records the prophet Elijah mistakenly believing he was the only one in all of Israel zealous for God. It records the prophet Jonah knowing what God would do in Ninevah and his refusal to do as commanded and saying, "It is better for me to die than live," claiming he had a right to be angry! It records the Jewish leaders many, many errors handling God's word. It records the sons of boanerges errantly wanting to bring down fire. It records Peter denying Christ, the same Peter who wrote two epistles and had to be admonished for behaving one way with Jewish converts and another way with Gentile converts. The denial and hypocrisy were not inspired; the epistles were.

None of which makes the scriptures mistaken. God didn't inspire David's wrongdoing. God didn't inspire Peter's wrong doing in word or deed.

You jumped to conclusions to which you shouldn't have jumped.

Your reasoning is seriously flawed.

And you did not do what was asked of you: quote me saying Paul was uninspired.
Either Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write his letters and everything contained therein, or he was not, and was fallible.
Ah, I see the problem. You do not correctly understand the doctrine of scriptural infallibility.

Paul stated quite plainly and explicitly his statements did not come from God.

1 Corinthians 7:6, 10-12
"6But this I say by way of concession, not of command..... 10But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband 11(but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. 12But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her."

The first sentence quoted Paul explicitly states was not a command. The second sentence Paul explicitly states came from God. The third sentence Paul states 1) comes from him and 2) NOT from God!

I believe him.
And God saw fit to have that recorded in His the infallible, inerrant and inspired written word for our benefit.
You can't have it both ways.
The evidence proves otherwise. I proved my position. All you've done is misconstrue a post, misunderstand and misapply a doctrine, argue a fallacious rationale, and do it all absence any evidence.

The doctrine of inerrancy states scripture is in errant (in its original form) to all that it speaks. In other words, the doctrine of inerrancy does claim the Bible is authoritative as a physics textbook or a repair manual for my F-150 pickup. The doctrine of infallibility doesn't claim every word of ever personage is factually correct because one of the things to which scripture speaks is human fallibility. It does so often.
If you think Paul was wrong in respect to his views on marriage and celibacy, then what else would you accuse him of misunderstanding? This very position, based on your comments, is borderline heretical.
Ah, you didn't actually read my posts, did you? If all of my posts had been read in their entirety then it would have been seen that I quoted many of Paul's other statements on marriage and treated tham as inspired, authoritative and inerrant. I don't think Paul was wrong in respect to his views on marriage when he was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but Paul stated quite plainly his statement did not come from God.

I believe him.
Except they were not mere personal opinions unless Paul was only quasi-inspired by the Spirit. There are no half-measures here.
Paul said what he said, and what he said was one view was not a command and the other did not come from God but was his own view, not God's.

I believe him.



Now, are you going to stop wasting everyone's time and show where I actually stated Paul was uninspired or are you going to continue to try and defend your own uninspired wrongdoing? Or perhaps you'll acknowledge you jumped to conclusions when you shouldn't have.

You're arguing on behalf of a guy who thinks Christians should eschew marriage and live lives of celibacy based on one sentence Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 7. Have you treated his arguments with the same vigor you've treated mine or is this a biased zeal I read?

Tell you what: you take 1 Corinthians 7:12 to three priests, ministers, pastors, seminary professors, or someone you know with training correctly handling the word of God and you ask them what Paul mean when he said, "I say, not the Lord." And when you get done take a look at Proverbs 26:17 and think about it the next time you feel the need to hijack someone else's op.
 
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Bruce Leiter

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By unworldly I mean ascetically turning its back on the world and physical life itself.

When I look at the Bible, I see Paul saying that childless celibacy is better than marriage. I see the disciples abandoning their families to follow Christ. I see martyrdom actively embraced again, and again, and again. I see Apostles sent out with the instruction to give no thought to food or bodily sickness. I see Christians told not to defend themselves if struck, but to (famously) turn the other cheek. Heck I even see Christians fasting to the point of injuring their bodies (and possibly their minds), thinking here of various mystics.

When people say they want to bury their dead family member, they are told to leave it to others. When people say they are worried, they are told to give no concern to the worries of tomorrow (an instruction that makes farming impossible - as backed up by the use of sparrows who neither sow nor reap).

So I find myself wondering, is Christianity supposed to be about an abject denial and repudiation of physical life (with instead utmost emphasis placed instead on the 'here-after')?

Go back to all of your examples, read all the context of each one (the chapter around it), and examine other passages such as John 17 (Jesus' prayer--he says that his disciples are in the world yet not of the world) to determine their true meanings.

My short answer is "no"; we don't have to separate ourselves completely from the world. On the other hand, God doesn't want us to accept the values of the world and blend into it.

We can't be completely separate from the world to be able to witness to people in the world because we then have absolutely nothing in common with them. However, we must not accept the world's ways of thinking either.

To give you a personal example, at the age of nine, as an unbeliever, I became a sports and TV fan when Dad brought home our first TV (1951). I used that TV as an escape from the boring life on the farm. It contiued as an unexamined idol until I became a pastor and preached my sermon on 1 Corinthians 10:31, which basically commanded me to do everything in my life to honor God.

I had to ask myself whether I was honoring God with that area of my life. And I answered in my God-guided internal dialogue, that I wasn't.

I had two choices at that point, throw it all out (separatism) or find some way to honor God with sports and TV. As a result, I began to see that as I watched TV and sports, I could praise God for his creation of humans and their abilities. That change that I believe God gave me took my attention off my selfish pleasure and onto God as the Creator.

The wonderful result became that I could then talk and watch sports and TV with unbelievers from two different viewpoints as a point of contact with them, which would than give me opportunities to testify to the God I believe in.
 
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Broken Fence

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Greetings Inkfinger,
I believe Yeshua (Jesus) said best when He said store up treasure in heaven. He also said some people have become eunachs for the kingdom of heaven. Some people are unable to exercise self control, therefore Christ said if something offends you cut that off. Better to go through life maimed then for your member to cause you to go to judgement. Paul also said if a man and woman can not control their lust let them marry. So they do not commit sin. Now some people have higher calling on their life. One such calling is to forsake all for the gospel. For they care more about the lost, whom Yeshua (Jesus) died for, than for themselves or life in this world.
 
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Loversofjesus_2018

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Absolutely not.
1. Paul advocated celibacy for those who could handle it. There was intense persecution at that time and being married was an extra burden. Those who are not cut out for the single life should marry.
2. The disciples did not necessarily abandon their families. The gospels are the summary of 3-1/2 years of ministry. For sure they travelled around Israel, but Israel is not a huge place.
3. The Apostles went out with the assurance that God would supply their every need. From time to time it was not easy, but God came through. Paul wrote one of his last letters saying that he was amply provided for.
4. Christians were not afraid to die if necessary but they did not go looking for trouble. Paul was told of a plot to kill him so he left town. We read in the book of Acts how the disciples left towns where they were under threat.
5.Turning the other cheek does not mean to allow yourself to be beaten up. Slapping someone on the cheek was a terrible and degrading insult in biblical times. It was for a very long time in European culture also. You may have seen the movies where a swordsman challenges someone to a duel, forcing the issue by a glove to the cheek. We are called not to repay insult with insult. (1 Peter 3:9)
6. Not worrying about tomorrow does not mean you don't plan or prepare. You can plough a field and plant crops without worrying at all. Paul said that if people don't want to work, neither should they eat.
7. There is no biblical basis for fasting to the point of death. 6 weeks is dangerous. Fasting for the sake of it is pointless and may be counterproductive. Some people get immensely proud because they've fasted for so long.
8. I overlooked this point.... "Burying the dead". In those days a man might stay near the deceased father for up to a year. Lord Jesus was not saying not to go to the funeral. He was asking the disciple where his priorities lay.
Most Christians live normal lives. Most of us work, eat, marry, raise families and enjoy times of rest. Some are called to be apostles (called missionaries these days) or evangelists who travel a lot. Many Christians do face great persecution, and we should pray for them.
Does it explain in scripture that Jesus never really meant to turn the other cheek? I understand that we can change it and say he didn’t mean it the way it sounded but is there anywhere he explains what he meant?
 
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Albion

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If your doing things that the world does wouldn’t that make you of the world?
No. Making those things the only things that mattered in your life, pursuing fame or wealth, for instance, or else following the worst of the values of people who dod so might be more like it.

But on the other hand, being in the world means to be where the kind of people we are supposed to be can be found.

Consider the Sermon on the Mount. All of the actions urged on his followers and listeners on that occasion by Jesus concerned events or actions in this world--burying the dead, clothing the naked, seeking justice, and so on. Christ lauded the people who looked after those things.

If we were instead to adopt the attitude that people are suffering, are in need, etc. but as for ourselves...well, we aren't interested that workaday stuff because we're in our private chapels praying and so have no time for anything else...no. That's not the Christian ideal.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Does it explain in scripture that Jesus never really meant to turn the other cheek? I understand that we can change it and say he didn’t mean it the way it sounded but is there anywhere he explains what he meant?
No, not directly. It says in the letters that we should repay evil with evil or get into an insult contest (1 Peter 3:9 for example). Should we retaliate if we are physically assaulted? I've never faced that problem. I came very close when I was in the Navy. A sailor my junior asked me what I would do if he threw me in the harbour. I told him I would have him charged. He asked me several times and I repeated myself. He decided that I meant it and backed off. A few weeks later he and a mate threw an officer into the water. The offenders were discharged and imprisoned. But for God's grace, I could have been the victim. I prefer not to try and work out every scenario in advance. God is big enough to take care of me!
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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Here's a quote from Eusebius quoting Clement about The Apostles that were Married :

From :
CHURCH FATHERS: Church History, Book III (Eusebius)


• Eusebius - Church History - Book 3 - Chapter 30 - (263-339 A.D.)

1. Clement, indeed, whose words we have just quoted, after the above-mentioned facts gives a statement, on account of those who rejected marriage, of the apostles that had wives. Or will they, says he, reject even the Apostles ?

For Peter and Philip begot children; and Philip also gave his daughters in marriage.

And Paul does not hesitate, in one of his epistles, to greet his wife, whom he did not take about with him, that he might not be inconvenienced in his ministry.



2. And since we have mentioned this subject it is not improper to subjoin another account which is given by the same author and which is worth reading. In the seventh book of his Stromata he writes as follows: They say, accordingly, that when the blessed Peter saw his own wife led out to die, he rejoiced because of her summons and her return home, and called to her very encouragingly and comfortingly, addressing her by name, and saying, 'Remember the Lord .' Such was the marriage of the blessed, and their perfect disposition toward those dearest to them. This account being in keeping with the subject in hand, I have related here in its proper place.


.
 
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Loversofjesus_2018

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No. Making those things the only things that mattered in your life, pursuing fame or wealth, for instance, or else following the worst of the values of people who dod so might be more like it.

But on the other hand, being in the world means to be where the kind of people we are supposed to be can be found.

Consider the Sermon on the Mount. All of the actions urged on his followers and listeners on that occasion by Jesus concerned events or actions in this world--burying the dead, clothing the naked, seeking justice, and so on. Christ lauded the people who looked after those things.

If we were instead to adopt the attitude that people are suffering, are in need, etc. but as for ourselves...well, we aren't interested that workaday stuff because we're in our private chapels praying and so have no time for anything else...no. That's not the Christian ideal.
So if someone has a different view than you do that would be ok as well since there seems to be not set guidance in what it means to be of the world. It’s just be sure it’s not all you care about and your still putting God first. According this most people can justify how much in the world they are.i really don’t know the answers to things that aren’t clearly stated but this is where I see a problem with adding our opinions to scripture. Once we start saying “I think” is it that the pureness of the subject gets ruined maybe? Because it seems inevitable that if I give my opinion another has a right to give theirs since after all it’s just opinions and not truth.
 
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TLSITD

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To answer that question you would first have to define what worldliness means.

Christians are called to be lights in the world as lamps of God's truth, holiness, goodness and righteousness, and to expose the darkness of the ways of spiritually unregenerate man by contrast, bringing glory to God and showing those who are in darkness their need for the Spirit of Christ, who is our Light.

I define worldliness as any behavior, attitude, desire, pursuit, practice, or appearance proceeding from society or human nature that dishonors God and is contrary to His nature, and which is opposite of what the Scriptures teach that Christians should be, do, desire and pursue.

According to that definition of worldliness, the answer to the original question is Yes: Christianity should definitely not be worldly. Christians should not conform to the ways of the world but to God's ways, and should remain firm in those ways no matter how the views and practices of the society around them change, and no matter how much they are mocked or resented or even persecuted for remaining firm in God's ways.

They should not be seeking to have the approval of a world that hates God and is ignorant of His ways and which is following after the demons. It is God's approval that Christians should be seeking, and Christ Jesus who we should be imitating.
 
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Albion

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So if someone has a different view than you do that would be ok as well since there seems to be not set guidance in what it means to be of the world.
It doesn't matter what I think or want. It does matter what God thinks and wants, and we know that, thanks to his word in Holy Scripture.

We here who are answering your question are referring to Scripture for our advice to you; we're not just reasoning something out or offering what we think might make sense.

It’s just be sure it’s not all you care about and your still putting God first.
When it is said that we are to be in the world but not of the world, it does mean that we are to live in both, if that's what you mean. God's people are called out, meant to be above ordinary worldly things, but it doesn't mean that we are--or even can--be separate from all of that. We have physical bodies, needs, feelings, etc. and live in society. So we are to be a positive force in society and a good force for others who are in need--right along with knowing our spiritual calling and our devotion to God.
 
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