Well B,,,
I stopped listening after 5 seconds.
What does Sproul believe is the "hope within us"
if it's GOD that does the choosing?
Exactly WHAT HOPE would that be that he's speaking of?
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What happens to the people who've never heard the gospel?
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I stopped listening after 5 seconds.
What does Sproul believe is the "hope within us"
if it's GOD that does the choosing?
Exactly WHAT HOPE would that be that he's speaking of?
- Nov 14, 2017
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I am talking with a Catholic on discussing what happens to the natives who never heard of Christ. Nowadays there are few people who don't have access to learning about Christ, whether it's through the internet or by a missionary or friend, but the Native Americans, Mayans, and all those people who were previously in this country didn't know about our God. Now I believe it is in human nature to acknowledge the Creator, no matter what they have learned in their society after all the earth shouts of His glory and testifies of His lovingkindness. (Is. 6:3, Ps. 119:64). But my question is, was it possible for them to be saved by just living off of their acknowledgment of a creator and their consciousness to do good instead of evil? Because John 14:6 says "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." Wouldn't this be a contradiction if those natives were saved without ever learning about Jesus, the Son of God?
And if the natives weren't saved, because of their rebellion in their hearts, because not one man is innocent or ever has been except Jesus, wouldn't it be unjust to give some people the opportunity of hearing the Truth and others not?
In Romans, it discusses how the people are judged by their own law in their hearts.. but that will condemn everyone who hasn't surrendered their sins to Jesus.
"Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Romans 2: 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."
What is the correct, biblical way to answer this question? I've been asked this question multiple times, I believed that the natives were judged by the law written in their own hearts and conscience but that seems to be in contradiction with John 14:6, it seems flippant to say there are exceptions in salvation unless I have scriptural evidence.
Thank you,
God bless you all,
correct .... not just natives .... the law is written in everybody's heart (since creation of Adam and Eve) ... all ... no one is without excuse
no contradiction .... Jesus IS God and only God knows and weighs the heart
Proverbs 21:2
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart.
Saving is up to Jesus since the beginning ....
We often talk about "this and that" about being saved ... and since time has progressed on we have written glorious details about such matters .... but let's be real honest .... even so ... we don't know everyone's hearts
We are to point others to Christ through His written Word (full of details) .... however ... He weighs the hearts and salvation is entirely up to Him.
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Good Day, GG
Well then that is too bad... as to your answer that would be found in the next lesson in the series..
Good question..., are you ready??
God does the choosing, and in doing so it does it better than any other, and it is good.
Lesson 3
"Of all the different religions in the world, how can you say that Jesus is the only way to God? This notion of exclusivity is not popular in a pluralistic world. Belief in Jesus as the Son of God and the only way to God will brand you as narrow-minded and bigoted. How ought we to respond to the critics? What shall we tell those is the reason for the hope that lies within us? Are you prepared with an answer? In this message, Dr. Sproul discusses why Jesus must be the only way."
Christ: The Only Way by R.C. Sproul
In Him,
Bill
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Well, if you read ALL my posts
(all meaning all)
then you'll know that I don't agree with Mr. Sproul....
There is only ONE GOD....
and it's not up to anyone of us,,,even Sproul,
to decide who is going to heaven and who is not.
That's a job left to GOD...
Thankfully.
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Seems to easy doesn't it?
Some think they could judge like God does...
Thankfully for us,,,our loving and merciful God gets to do the judging.
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- Aug 21, 2003
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Good Day, GG
Where any where in the two lesson I posted did he even by implication he decides who goes to heaven??
Please give me the lesson number and the time stamp... this assumes you listened.
This would be classified as a straw-man at the very best and at the very worst slander.
In Him,
Bill
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Slander?
That's too funny.
People throw words around and don't even know what they mean.
Here's what I read:
Lecture 3, Christ: The Only Way:
Of all the different religions in the world, how can you say that Jesus is the only way to God? This notion of exclusivity is not popular in a pluralistic world. Belief in Jesus as the Son of God and the only way to God will brand you as narrow-minded and bigoted. How ought we to respond to the critics? What shall we tell those is the reason for the hope that lies within us? Are you prepared with an answer? In this message, Dr. Sproul discusses why Jesus must be the only way.
As you can see, the beginning would seem to suggest that those that believe Jesus is the only way are narrow minded.
But in the last sentence we read that in this message, Dr. Sproul discusses WHY JESUS MUST BE THE ONLY WAY.
Confusing,,,as I find many reformed messages to be.
If Sproul believes Jesus is the only way,,,it means that all the others are headed to the other place...and thus HE IS MAKING A JUDGEMENT as to goes to heaven and who does not.
ONLY GOD can make judgement on a person's soul.
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Rescued One
...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
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You can be a universalist, but the Bible doesn't say that He saves everyone.
I guess you don't like the Old Testament and want to close all the prisons.
Thank you. Now we are to accept your word as truth because you cherry pick certain verses?
Let the SON shine in.
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Sproul is great generally at explaining things well, and a very good thinker. He has no obvious mistakes I've been able to find in the 25 or so videos/audio things of his I've heard. He's a resource, even if putative Calvinistic.
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I never said everyone is saved.
I said God INVITES AND DESIRES for everyone to be saved.
1 Timothy 2:4
There are conditions to being saved....
Those conditions were set by God....
Jesus said:
John 3:3, 5
3Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
There is a CONDITION to entering into the Kingdom of God. That condition is that we must accept the sacrifice our Savior made for us.
Not everyone does.
I don't know what you're speaking about.
The O.T. is part of the bible.
I speak no words of my own, but only what the bible states. I'm surprised you're not familiar with the verses I spoke. God desires ALL MEN to be saved.
Here they are:
1 Timothy 2:4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 3:9
9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
Matthew 23:37
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
As He does to everyone who is willing to accept Him as their Lord and Savior.
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Francis Drake
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I can't see what's so difficult to understand.
Paul makes it clear that your whole family know the truth of our creator God, but only you surrendered to it. The rest don't want God in their lives.
NB. This isn't about whether they acknowledge your Christianity, religion, denomination, interpretation etc. Its about whether they allow the Spirit of God to implant his seed. And Jesus described what happens after that in the parable of the sower.
There are many seeds whose growth is severely hindered, to such an extent that new life is barely evident.
In the parable of the sower, it was only the seed planted on the wayside that got snatched by the birds (devil). The rest did at least make a start.
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God gives all men a measure of faith
Rom12v3For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but think of yourself with sober judgment, according to the measure of faith God has given you.
But what we do with that faith, how we grow it, (hint -parable of the sower) is down to each one of us.
If that were not the case, then Jesus's oft repeated words to his disciples would make no sense.
Matt6v30Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
Disciple, "How dare you keep accusing me of having little faith, when its your job to give it!"
Matt8v26But He said to them, “Why are you fearful, O you of little faith?” Then He arose and rebuked the winds and the sea, and there was a great calm.
Disciple, "There you go again Jesus, accusing us of little faith when you haven't given it to us!"
Matt14v31And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him, and said to him, “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?”
Disciple, "If I haven't got enough faith, that's your fault not mine!"
Matt16v8But Jesus, being aware of it, said to them, “O you of little faith, why do you reason among yourselves because you have brought no bread?
Disciple, "Stop right there Jesus, if you want faith, then stop complaining and give it to us!"
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Good Day, GG
There is a condition, but it has nothing at all to do with man... On a side note His sacrifice was not made to us.. but to the Father and it was totally without equivocation acceptable to the Father, again nothing to do with man at all.
Let look at John:
John 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
The will of God is the primary cause and effective agent of "born" Not anything in or about man including his will.
Now having established that ..
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?
That which is Flesh is Flesh... That which is Spirit is Spirit
Flesh bares (births) flesh.. and Spirit bares (births) Spirit
How by what method or means did you accent the Birthing of your flesh?
Did you know where it came from? Did you know what it would lead to?
The Spirit births Spirit.. the only condition is the Spirit accordance with the Will of God doing so. If the Spirit chooses not to then by Gods will you are not birthed of the Spirit.
Finally:
Now we can exergete some passages in context, and get some answers on the reading of the text.
1Tim 2:1-5
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.
Here are some questions: So Jesus mediates for all people with out distinction
1. So his mediation before the Father on their behalf fails?
2. He died to pay the price (kinsmen redeemer) to redeem (all people) them, and that price was not sufficient so his Priestly work failed also?
2 Peter 3:9
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
1.The you, and the any are both pronouns to which noun in the context do they refer?
2.The all is an adjective, which noun or pronoun does it modify?
3. in the context where is the whole world either the noun or a referred pronoun exist in the text?
Earlier in the context:
Pe 3:5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God,
1. The pronoun they refers to which noun?
Last but not least of the big 3....
Mat 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!
1. whom or what is Jerusalem in the text.
2. whom or what are "her" (your) Children?
3. the pronoun you (not Willing) refers to which noun?
4. why do you think this has anything to do with Salvation at all, what is the context?
In Him,
Bill
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- Aug 21, 2003
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Good Day, Francis Drake
Lets look at the passage a bit closer... it does not say all men have faith.
Remember this is written to the Church at Rome (Everyone among you) the one body.
Rom 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.
The measure of Faith to each of them is in direct linkage with their gifts that they use among the body of which they are members.
So Paul do all have faith?... the answer is clear not all have faith.
2Th 3:1 Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith.
But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one. And we have confidence in the Lord about you, that you are doing and will do the things that we command. May the Lord direct your hearts to the love of God and to the steadfastness of Christ.
In Him,
Bill
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Is there any biblical reason why they couldn't come to the Father by Jesus, without having ever heard of Jesus? Wasn't that the case of every old testament saint? They never heard of Jesus and yet they came to the Father the only way possible; by Jesus.
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: Job 19:25 (KJV)
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