Really scared about COVID vaccine

solid_core said:

Do you for example read literally that there will be literal beasts, a literal image of the beast, that these beast will have literally several heads, horns, crowns etc? Do you read literally that they will come from the sea and land? Or do you read it metaphorically?

Why, regarding the mark of the beast, you suddenly switch to literalism and think that the mark or hand or head is literal, while all the rest around it is not?

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Yes, literal. Here are definitions of these terms from Miriam Webster.

Beast -- : a contemptible person

Heads -- one in charge of a division or department in an office or institution

Horn -- a source of strength

Crown -- imperial or regal power

ZNP said:

Yes, literal. Here are definitions of these terms from Miriam Webster.

Beast -- : a contemptible person

Heads -- one in charge of a division or department in an office or institution

Horn -- a source of strength

Crown -- imperial or regal power

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So, not literal.

Lydia Potter said:

I feel sorry for the person, but overall, yeah, it's fair.
No, i didn't know that.

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Deuteronomy 32:4 says:
“The Rock! His work is perfect, for all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He."

God is Just. He gives mankind every possible opportunity to be recipient of Gods grace and mercy and forgiveness and is so longsuffering with man, such that in our day under the Covanent of Grace anyone who calls on the Name of the Lord is saved (Romans 10:13)

• 2 Peter 3:9
  The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
  
• Exodus 34:5-7
  Now the LORD descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children to the third and the fourth generation."
  
• Ecclesiastes 8:11-13
  Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. Though a sinner does evil a hundred times, and his days are prolonged, yet I surely know that it will be well with those who fear God, who fear before Him. But it will not be well with the wicked; nor will he prolong his days, which are as a shadow, because he does not fear before God.
  
• Romans 2:4
  Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
  
• 2 Peter 3:15
  and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
  
• Joel 2:13
  So rend your heart, and not your garments;
  Return to the LORD your God,
  For He is gracious and merciful,
  Slow to anger, and of great kindness;
  And He relents from doing harm.

So we have consider honestly that when people are given so many chances to turn to Him, that when it comes time to judge between the guilt or innocence of man, that when the decree is guilt, due to the weight of the evidence against them then God's verdict of guilty is not unjust in the least, but is very just indeed.

Luke 18:7-8
"And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"

Judgment in the negative sense is vengeance for evil done, and with God, it's never unjust.

Lamentations 3:38
Why should the living complain when punished for their sins?

People under the judgment of God have no excuse, and have been given opportunity to turn to the Lord.

So if you hate judgment, you hate what's right in the eyes of God. Would you set a serial killer free, knowing he's a serial killer, knowing he will someday kill your own children?

Yet God is so gracious to give everyone every opportunity to repent, so much so that when He does mete out justice, noone is without excuse.

solid_core said:

Why is it clear that head or hand or mark are not symbolic, while all around this verse is?

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Can you indicate which verse your are referring to?

solid_core said:

This text does not say what you said. Repentance is always a choice.

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Not for the mark of the beast it isn't.

solid_core said:

Why is it clear that head or hand or mark are not symbolic, while all around this verse is?

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Name something, symbolic, that would distinguish between those that have it and those that don't have it... when they buy or sell something.. such that they cannot buy or sell without it.. and.. it must be something that you "take"...... And, once taken, you are unable to receive salvation... but... is not literal....

Glorytothefather2245 said:

Not for the mark of the beast it isn't.

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Absolutely correct... Excellent post.

Hazelelponi said:

Deuteronomy 32:4 says:
“The Rock! His work is perfect, for all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He."

God is Just. He gives mankind every possible opportunity to be recipient of Gods grace and mercy and forgiveness and is so longsuffering with man, such that in our day under the Covanent of Grace anyone who calls on the Name of the Lord is saved (Romans 10:13)

• 2 Peter 3:9
  The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
  
• Exodus 34:5-7
  Now the LORD descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children to the third and the fourth generation."
  
• Ecclesiastes 8:11-13
  Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. Though a sinner does evil a hundred times, and his days are prolonged, yet I surely know that it will be well with those who fear God, who fear before Him. But it will not be well with the wicked; nor will he prolong his days, which are as a shadow, because he does not fear before God.
  
• Romans 2:4
  Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
  
• 2 Peter 3:15
  and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
  
• Joel 2:13
  So rend your heart, and not your garments;
  Return to the LORD your God,
  For He is gracious and merciful,
  Slow to anger, and of great kindness;
  And He relents from doing harm.

So we have consider honestly that when people are given so many chances to turn to Him, that when it comes time to judge between the guilt or innocence of man, that when the decree is guilt, due to the weight of the evidence against them then God's verdict of guilty is not unjust in the least, but is very just indeed.

Luke 18:7-8
"And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"

Judgment in the negative sense is vengeance for evil done, and with God, it's never unjust.

Lamentations 3:38
Why should the living complain when punished for their sins?

People under the judgment of God have no excuse, and have been given opportunity to turn to the Lord.

So if you hate judgment, you hate what's right in the eyes of God. Would you set a serial killer free, knowing he's a serial killer, knowing he will someday kill your own children?

Yet God is so gracious to give everyone every opportunity to repent, so much so that when He does mete out justice, noone is without excuse.

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Whoa you sound like a preacher!

Lydia Potter said:

Whoa you sound like a preacher!

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Well I thank you for the compliment but I'm no preacher... just a Christian who loves our Lord and Savior.

Hazelelponi said:

Well I thank you for the compliment but I'm no preacher... just a Christian who loves our Lord and Savior.

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That's good too

solid_core said:

So, not literal.

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I suppose you can argue that calling a contemptible person a beast is a metaphor and that referring to a head of a department is also a metaphor. These are pretty common terms, so that for many of us these are no longer metaphors.

However, saying that a horn is a source of power is certainly a metaphor for most, if not all.

I think your point would have been less confusing if you just use the terms allegorical or metaphorical rather than literal. To me using beast for a contemptible person and head for someone who is in charge of a department are common and usual terms.

Lydia Potter said:

I hate judgement

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Judgement without mercy is to those who have not shown mercy. Be merciful in judgement of others and you too will receive mercy.

Golden rule -- do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Treat God's people the way you would have God treat you.

ZNP said:

I think your point would have been less confusing if you just use the terms allegorical or metaphorical rather than literal.

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Allegorical/metaphorical/symbolic is the opposite of literal. Not synonymous.

So I cannot use it instead of "literal" - I would say the opposite.

ZNP said:

Judgement without mercy is to those who have not shown mercy. Be merciful in judgement of others and you too will receive mercy.

Golden rule -- do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Treat God's people the way you would have God treat you.

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I know the golden rule

solid_core said:

Allegorical/metaphorical/symbolic is the opposite of literal. Not synonymous.

So I cannot use it instead of "literal" - I would say the opposite.

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Name something, symbolic, that would distinguish between those that have it and those that don't have it... when they buy or sell something.. such that they cannot buy or sell without it.. and.. it must be something that you "take"...... And, once taken, you are unable to receive salvation... but... is not literal....

JacksBratt said:

Name something, symbolic, that would distinguish between those that have it and those that don't have it... when they buy or sell something.. such that they cannot buy or sell without it.. and.. it must be something that you "take"...... And, once taken, you are unable to receive salvation... but... is not literal....

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Oh come one, for example read about an angel, who took a cup, poured it on earth... and still, its not literal.

JacksBratt said:

And, once taken, you are unable to receive salvation

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Not true. You can always repent. Salvation is a spiritual thing, not technological or bodily.

solid_core said:

Oh come one, for example read about an angel, who took a cup, poured it on earth... and still, its not literal.

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Not good enough... This is talking about human beings on the earth.. Not angelic events.

Try again. You cannot dodge the fact that it is, by nature, a real thing.

solid_core said:

Not true. You can always repent. Salvation is a spiritual thing, not technological or bodily.

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There are far too many scriptures that would counter your belief. Some even presented in this thread..

solid_core said:

Allegorical/metaphorical/symbolic is the opposite of literal. Not synonymous.

So I cannot use it instead of "literal" - I would say the opposite.

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Your point was that the use of the terms "head", "horn" and "beast" were allegorical and "not literal". However, the terms beast and head are common terms for the way they were used. Literal refers to the "common usage" not simply the non allegorical usage. Head may have originally been allegorical, it is now a common label for someone running something. Not many would continue the reference to the head of the department to be allegorical. Likewise the term "he is a beast" is very common and again, few would see that as allegorical. Both of these terms have evolved and originally they probably were metaphorical.

We can read Revelation and instead of seeing a weird animal referred to as a beast with seven heads and four horns, we can see a corporation which is now legally seen as a person, that is a beast, it operates as a sociopath with no regard to people but only to the bottom line, there are 7 heads of the various departments and it derives its power from 4 sources.

These are two very different readings. So when you say "not literal" what are you saying?

Lybrah.. oh bless you in Jesus name. For me.. when ever fear tries to set foot.. its not of God so its a lie. What does the word tell us? What I read is .. this beast is given life. That beast tells the world to worship it or die. NO ONE up to that point has the mark. They have to worship it 1st. NO ONE has the mark up to then.

Now.. in that book of Rev it says.. And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb who was slain.

So... you name? HAS IS written in the lambs book already. See those that worship the beast and take the mark know that they know that they know they are saying NO to God and yes to Satan/antichrist. NO one gets the mark by mistake. This is why no one that worships the beast or takes its mark will be saved. They are lost.

Again... worshiping the beast MUST come 1st. Even then... the antichrist must be out in the open then and we know now he is not. So some shot about a virus is just what it is.. like the flu shot. Like the flu shot.. if you dont want it..don't get it.

See some don't believe the beast is some image coming to life.. what matters is.. that has to happen.. Antichrist has to be out in the open and known and then the beast.. then worship it..if they don't they die. But you are already sealed in the lambs book. NO ONE can take you from YOUR Fathers hands. Be at peace.. the enemy is just lying to you.. he can only lie.. and uses fear. God never uses fear... but peace

Lybrah said:

I’m very worried that Bill Gates’ vaccine is the mark of the Beast. You won’t be able to go back to work unless you take it. The lockdown won’t end until people take it. Thus, you can’t buy or sell. The whole world has this disease threat. Plus, it may have some nanoparticle hydrogel that dudes itself with your body, making you unable to take it out.
Once you have the mark, there is no redemption for you, correct? Where is the scripture to support this?
Here’s their pitch: no cure for this thing and the disease makes everyone safe.

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My university has an Internet observatory that traces the origins and the ramifications of disinformation and misinformation that mutates online.

For insight on the origins of this specific myth that rapidly gained traction:

A poster on a parody site created to lampoon fundamentalists made the claim that a COVID-19 vaccine will be the mark of the beast, not because it holds any truth, but to deride Christians for believing that it does. The site is designed to replicate the original format of this one, and models its content on Poe's Law, was was coined here and has since become an internet phenomenon. Visitors are frequently Poe'd, being fooled into believing that what they are reading is genuine and so they then repeat the spoof elsewhere without context. The parody claim being replicated by actual Christians gives it the appearance of legitimacy. The parody forum, to its credit, has responsibly deleted some of such content because they realize that anything detrimental to public health during a global pandemic isn't funny at all. It's unethical.

The claim there evolved from the disinformation campaign against Bill Gates instigated by tricksters and trolls. QAnon conspiracy theorists (who are frequently Russian trolls maliciously trying to generate chaos and fear in Americans) butchered facts from context and sewed them together with fabricated claims about Gates. The nonsense gained oxygen from above-ground (vs. anonymous postings) sources such as right-wing media personalities and the flamboyant characters Diamond and Silk (who even managed to exasperate Fox into terminating their deal due to their reckless and unhinged misinformation pertaining to the pandemic - Fox News Cuts Ties With Diamond & Silk). Anti-vaxxer groups then seized upon the conspiracies and ran at full speed with them, heavily promoting and propagating the lies and sending a virtual army to post disseminate them all over the internet.

A vaccine for coronavirus will most unequivocally not be the "mark of the beast." Please don't allow malignant lies manufactured by trolls to be the cause of distress to you. Once a vaccine has actually been approved we can then move on to discussions about the specifics of it.