LDS Brigham Young and His Blood Atonement

He is the way

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And the Bible say He Has [instead of Had} a body of flesh and bones? The Bible was written today?
He left in His body of flesh and bones and He will return in His body of flesh and bones. That is because He still has His body of flesh and bones.
 
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Jamesone5

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He left in His body of flesh and bones and He will return in His body of flesh and bones. That is because He still has His body of flesh and bones.
We must semi-respectfully disagree.
 
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He is the way

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We must semi-respectfully disagree.
(New Testament | Acts 1:6 - 11)

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
 
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Jamesone5

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(New Testament | Acts 1:6 - 11)

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
You still arguing as if I should consider whatever so-called valid point you bring up?

We have already argued those verses.
 
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Peter1000

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Luke 24:39

39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for A SPIRIT hath not flesh and bones, as ye behold me having.

This is "understanding what the scriptures are saying 101"
Jesus is right, a spirit does not have flesh and bones. That is why the spirit can dwell inside of a flesh and bone body. But in order for the flesh and bones body to be alive there must be a spirit inside of it, giving it life. Take the spirit away and the body falls to the ground dead.

Even Jesus had his own spirit:
Luke 23:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

That is when Jesus died on the cross, when he gave up his spirit/ghost, his flesh and bone body went limp and he was dead.

But 3 days later that same spirit/ghost came back into his dead body of flesh and bone and he rose from the dead, in a new, perfect, resurrected body of flesh and bone and spirit. Truly resurrection 101.
 
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Peter1000

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And the Bible say He Has [instead of Had} a body of flesh and bones? The Bible was written today?
Luke 24:39 King James Version (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Your right Jesus "has" a body of fllesh and bone and spirit then. And Jesus still has that same resurrected body of flesh and bone and spirit today.
 
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Jamesone5

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Jesus is right, a spirit does not have flesh and bones. That is why the spirit can dwell inside of a flesh and bone body. But in order for the flesh and bones body to be alive there must be a spirit inside of it, giving it life. Take the spirit away and the body falls to the ground dead.

Even Jesus had his own spirit:
Luke 23:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

That is when Jesus died on the cross, when he gave up his spirit/ghost, his flesh and bone body went limp and he was dead.

But 3 days later that same spirit/ghost came back into his dead body of flesh and bone and he rose from the dead, in a new, perfect, resurrected body of flesh and bone and spirit. Truly resurrection 101.

Now you are calling what He gave up as the Holy Ghost?
This is just a reference word for the soul which He did give up.

"He gave up the ghost"-----which simply means He died


And, Christ is not alive, as I am trying to follow here, so He has to have flesh and bone body to live?

How did He exist in OT times without the manifested body He received from being born of Mary as a man 2000 years ago? Was He in another body altogether, according to you?

No wonder so many Mormon theologies crash to the ground as the implications of them you never consider.

Clearly you do not understand the difference between a soul and a spirit.
 
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Peter1000

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Now you are calling what He gave up as the Holy Ghost?
Even Jesus had his own spirit:
Luke 23:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

That is when Jesus died on the cross, when he gave up his spirit/ghost, his flesh and bone body went limp and he was dead.

But 3 days later that same spirit/ghost came back into his dead body of flesh and bone and he rose from the dead, in a new, perfect, resurrected body of flesh and bone and spirit. Truly resurrection 101.


Everything bolded is what I said in post 305, which you responed to. Do you see the words, "Holy Ghost" in this post? NO. Therefore your first statement is false. Jesus did not give up the Holy Ghost, he gave up his personal ghost.

This is just a reference word for the soul which He did give up.
Luke 23:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Do you see the word "soul" in this scripture? No! 2 words are used to describe what Jesus gave up. They are "spirit", and "ghost". Jesus commended his "spirit" unto his Father hands, and he gave up his ghost.

He did not give up his "soul" either scripturally (as you can see) or by definition: soul = body + spirit/ghost. Since Jesus did not give up his body, his whole soul was not given up.

"He gave up the ghost"-----which simply means He died

This is a correct statement. When the spirit (ghost) leaves the body, it dies.

And, Christ is not alive, as I am trying to follow here, so He has to have flesh and bone body to live?
When Jesus died on the cross, it was because his spirit (ghost) left the body. Therefore he went limp on the cross and was pronounced dead.

His dead body went into the tomb, but his spirit lived on and went with the thief's spirit into paradise. He was in his spirit form for 3 days and then went back to the tomb and entered again into his dead body and it came alive again. IOW the soul was made whole again, the soul = both the body and spirit.

And Jesus was risen, alive and hundreds testify that they saw him and know that he lived in a physical way.

How did He exist in OT times without the manifested body He received from being born of Mary as a man 2000 years ago? Was He in another body altogether, according to you?

Jesus was in a spirit form only as he dealt with the children of Israel in the OT. You do know what incarnation is, right? It is when a spirit takes on flesh in a mortal body. This is exactly what happened to Jesus, he was incarnated and he became man and dwelt with us in his mortal body made up of the body and the spirit and he became a living soul.

No wonder so many Mormon theologies crash to the ground as the implications of them you never consider.

Tell me 1 implication that I have not considered about my theology concerning the form that Jesus is in today?

Clearly you do not understand the difference between a soul and a spirit.
I guarantee that you cannot prove to me what the difference between the soul and the spirit is using just scripture. Try it.
We believe the soul = the body and the spirit. You prove to me from scipture that this is not at least 1 interpretation that someone can reasonably believe in as they study the scriptures about the spirit and the soul. Good luck.
 
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Jamesone5

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Even Jesus had his own spirit:
Luke 23:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

That is when Jesus died on the cross, when he gave up his spirit/ghost, his flesh and bone body went limp and he was dead.

But 3 days later that same spirit/ghost came back into his dead body of flesh and bone and he rose from the dead, in a new, perfect, resurrected body of flesh and bone and spirit. Truly resurrection 101.


Everything bolded is what I said in post 305, which you responed to. Do you see the words, "Holy Ghost" in this post? NO. Therefore your first statement is false. Jesus did not give up the Holy Ghost, he gave up his personal ghost.


Luke 23:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Do you see the word "soul" in this scripture? No! 2 words are used to describe what Jesus gave up. They are "spirit", and "ghost". Jesus commended his "spirit" unto his Father hands, and he gave up his ghost.

He did not give up his "soul" either scripturally (as you can see) or by definition: soul = body + spirit/ghost. Since Jesus did not give up his body, his whole soul was not given up.



This is a correct statement. When the spirit (ghost) leaves the body, it dies.


When Jesus died on the cross, it was because his spirit (ghost) left the body. Therefore he went limp on the cross and was pronounced dead.

His dead body went into the tomb, but his spirit lived on and went with the thief's spirit into paradise. He was in his spirit form for 3 days and then went back to the tomb and entered again into his dead body and it came alive again. IOW the soul was made whole again, the soul = both the body and spirit.

And Jesus was risen, alive and hundreds testify that they saw him and know that he lived in a physical way.



Jesus was in a spirit form only as he dealt with the children of Israel in the OT. You do know what incarnation is, right? It is when a spirit takes on flesh in a mortal body. This is exactly what happened to Jesus, he was incarnated and he became man and dwelt with us in his mortal body made up of the body and the spirit and he became a living soul.



Tell me 1 implication that I have not considered about my theology concerning the form that Jesus is in today?


I guarantee that you cannot prove to me what the difference between the soul and the spirit is using just scripture. Try it.
We believe the soul = the body and the spirit. You prove to me from scipture that this is not at least 1 interpretation that someone can reasonably believe in as they study the scriptures about the spirit and the soul. Good luck.


The spirit is not the ghost--you are making things up to fit whatever dialogue you are trying to sell here

You own favorite KJ Version says this

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul

NKJV

Genesis 2:7
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Nothing about placing the sprit of man in him. So there is your difference in the creation account. You are just merley assuming something that it does not say--once again.

Jesus came and was manifested into the flesh as a man, was He not?

Now if you want to get more technical-----

Matthew 12:43
“When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none


why would we want an unclean sprit inside us?

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.


the spirit of man that is developed It is either of satan or its is of God like here:

1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
 
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Jamesone5

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Even Jesus had his own spirit:
Luke 23:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

That is when Jesus died on the cross, when he gave up his spirit/ghost, his flesh and bone body went limp and he was dead.

But 3 days later that same spirit/ghost came back into his dead body of flesh and bone and he rose from the dead, in a new, perfect, resurrected body of flesh and bone and spirit. Truly resurrection 101.


Everything bolded is what I said in post 305, which you responed to. Do you see the words, "Holy Ghost" in this post? NO. Therefore your first statement is false. Jesus did not give up the Holy Ghost, he gave up his personal ghost.


Luke 23:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Do you see the word "soul" in this scripture? No! 2 words are used to describe what Jesus gave up. They are "spirit", and "ghost". Jesus commended his "spirit" unto his Father hands, and he gave up his ghost.

He did not give up his "soul" either scripturally (as you can see) or by definition: soul = body + spirit/ghost. Since Jesus did not give up his body, his whole soul was not given up.



This is a correct statement. When the spirit (ghost) leaves the body, it dies.


When Jesus died on the cross, it was because his spirit (ghost) left the body. Therefore he went limp on the cross and was pronounced dead.

His dead body went into the tomb, but his spirit lived on and went with the thief's spirit into paradise. He was in his spirit form for 3 days and then went back to the tomb and entered again into his dead body and it came alive again. IOW the soul was made whole again, the soul = both the body and spirit.

And Jesus was risen, alive and hundreds testify that they saw him and know that he lived in a physical way.



Jesus was in a spirit form only as he dealt with the children of Israel in the OT. You do know what incarnation is, right? It is when a spirit takes on flesh in a mortal body. This is exactly what happened to Jesus, he was incarnated and he became man and dwelt with us in his mortal body made up of the body and the spirit and he became a living soul.



Tell me 1 implication that I have not considered about my theology concerning the form that Jesus is in today?


I guarantee that you cannot prove to me what the difference between the soul and the spirit is using just scripture. Try it.
We believe the soul = the body and the spirit. You prove to me from scipture that this is not at least 1 interpretation that someone can reasonably believe in as they study the scriptures about the spirit and the soul. Good luck.

How did He exist in OT times without the manifested body He received from being born of Mary as a man 2000 years ago? Was He in another body altogether, according to you?--Jamesone5

Jesus was in a spirit form only as he dealt with the children of Israel in the OT. You do know what incarnation is, right? It is when a spirit takes on flesh in a mortal body. This is exactly what happened to Jesus, he was incarnated and he became man and dwelt with us in his mortal body made up of the body and the spirit and he became a living soul.----Peter1000

I think the term you are looking for is "manifested" in the flesh, instead of "incarnation"
Which is right here

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.


You LDS are forcing Christ to have this incarnated body of flesh and bones ----once He got one. That He has to exist in that form with a body, now and forever. Trouble is, as always, you have separate Gods to try to defend as supposedly they both appeared to JS together in that form.---or a least in the now-accepted version of that story.
 
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He is the way

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How did He exist in OT times without the manifested body He received from being born of Mary as a man 2000 years ago? Was He in another body altogether, according to you?--Jamesone5

Jesus was in a spirit form only as he dealt with the children of Israel in the OT. You do know what incarnation is, right? It is when a spirit takes on flesh in a mortal body. This is exactly what happened to Jesus, he was incarnated and he became man and dwelt with us in his mortal body made up of the body and the spirit and he became a living soul.----Peter1000

I think the term you are looking for is "manifested" in the flesh, instead of "incarnation"
Which is right here

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.


You LDS are forcing Christ to have this incarnated body of flesh and bones ----once He got one. That He has to exist in that form with a body, now and forever. Trouble is, as always, you have separate Gods to try to defend as supposedly they both appeared to JS together in that form.---or a least in the now-accepted version of that story.
Still not understanding the resurrection when the body and the spirit are reunited into an immortal spiritual body, never to be separated again.
 
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Jamesone5

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Still not understanding the resurrection when the body and the spirit are reunited into an immortal spiritual body, never to be separated again.

Uh, Christ is God and God is spirit.

John 4:24
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”



Should I remind you that we are talking about Christ?

It pays to actually read what you are responding to.
 
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Peter1000

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The spirit is not the ghost--you are making things up to fit whatever dialogue you are trying to sell here
According to Luke 23:46 in the bible the spirit and the ghost are the very same thing. If I am making something up, my source is the bible.

You own favorite KJ Version says this

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul
NKJV
Genesis 2:7
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

So in order to prove your point you switched the bible version? You are aware that many bible versions use the word "soul" in Genesis 2:7.

But what is your point anyway? Have you defined what the soul is as Genesis 2:7 KJV does? As I said, I don't think you can give me a biblical definition of what the "soul" in made up of? And you haven't. And the only scripture we have that gives the definition you have tried to obliterate because you think the KJV gives the Mormon definition of "soul" which you apparently cannot stand.
Nothing about placing the sprit of man in him. So there is your difference in the creation account. You are just merley assuming something that it does not say--once again.
Not sure what sprit or merley is, but I think I know.
Genesis 2:7 uses beautiful poetic language to describe how God placed the spirit into Adam. So it says that God breathed through Adams nostrils (meaning God placed) the breath of life (Adams spirit) and Adam became a living soul. Body + spirit = soul.

Not sure about all your spirit scriptures, especially evil spirits vs godly spirits. Every man has a spirit in him and when he does evil, his spirit is evil. When he does good, his spirit is good. So what? What is your point.
 
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Peter1000

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Uh, Christ is God and God is spirit.

John 4:24
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”



Should I remind you that we are talking about Christ?

It pays to actually read what you are responding to.
When you worship God, do you come out of your body and worship him in spirit? I don't think so?
 
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Jamesone5

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When you worship God, do you come out of your body and worship him in spirit? I don't think so?
What are you talking about????

John 4:24
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
 
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Jamesone5

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According to Luke 23:46 in the bible the spirit and the ghost are the very same thing. If I am making something up, my source is the bible.



So in order to prove your point you switched the bible version? You are aware that many bible versions use the word "soul" in Genesis 2:7.

But what is your point anyway? Have you defined what the soul is as Genesis 2:7 KJV does? As I said, I don't think you can give me a biblical definition of what the "soul" in made up of? And you haven't. And the only scripture we have that gives the definition you have tried to obliterate because you think the KJV gives the Mormon definition of "soul" which you apparently cannot stand.

Not sure what sprit or merley is, but I think I know.
Genesis 2:7 uses beautiful poetic language to describe how God placed the spirit into Adam. So it says that God breathed through Adams nostrils (meaning God placed) the breath of life (Adams spirit) and Adam became a living soul. Body + spirit = soul.

Not sure about all your spirit scriptures, especially evil spirits vs godly spirits. Every man has a spirit in him and when he does evil, his spirit is evil. When he does good, his spirit is good. So what? What is your point.
I am trying to make sense of your confusion

But the Bible does not say spirit in any version for Genesis 2:7 Here is one that agrees with your kJ

Genesis 2:7 [VOICE]
7 One day the Eternal God scooped dirt out of the ground, sculpted it into the shape we call human, breathed the breath that gives life into the nostrils of the human, and the human became a living soul

Now where get this formula for making soul and spirit equal I have no idea.

Even Concordances say they have different meanings.

But evidently Mormons want to believe what they want to believe per Joseph Smith.
 
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He is the way

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Uh, Christ is God and God is spirit.

John 4:24
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”



Should I remind you that we are talking about Christ?

It pays to actually read what you are responding to.
Where does John 4:24 mention Christ?
 
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BigDaddy4

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It is interesting that you are fulfilling a prophecy of the BOM. The BOM says there will be people in the last days that will say, " A bible, a bible, why do we need another Bible, we already have a Bible".

Listen to what the Lord says about you: (I know it is the BOM, but read how it describes you perfectly)
2nd Nephi 29:6-14
The Bible didn't exist around 600BC, when 2 Nephi was allegedly written. One more thing JS got wrong!
 
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Peter1000

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You LDS are forcing Christ to have this incarnated body of flesh and bones ----once He got one. That He has to exist in that form with a body, now and forever.

You asked me what form Jesus was in when he was the God of the OT.

I told you he was in a spirit form, meaning he was not in a flesh and bone form.

Then Jesus's spirit form was incarnated into his mortal body, and he became a living soul. His spirit (which has existed forever) and his now mortal body = Jesus's soul. And he was manifest unto men in the flesh.

So using the term "incarnated" is correct, and using the term "manifested" is also correct.

You LDS are forcing Christ to have this incarnated body of flesh and bones ----once He got one. That He has to exist in that form with a body, now and forever.

We don't have a problem, but you do. First you do not recognize the difference between a corruptible mortal body and a incorruptible resurrected body. Jesus was incarnated into a corruptible mortal body, which he manifested himself in during his life on earth.
 
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Peter1000

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The Bible didn't exist around 600BC, when 2 Nephi was allegedly written. One more thing JS got wrong!
No, Nephi saw in the future that a book would go forth from the mouth of the Jews. He was seeing the bible in the future. Not a problem for a prophet receiving information directly from God.
 
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