Aussie Pete

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 14, 2019
9,081
8,284
Frankston
Visit site
✟727,600.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Hello everyone! I'm new here. This is my first post. I made a video about why the early Christians hated democracy and have provided a link. I welcome your comments! Show me how I'm wrong!

"Democracy is the worst form of government. Except for any other form of government." Sir Winston Churchill.
 
Upvote 0

shagsnacks

Active Member
Feb 16, 2019
49
20
42
Illinois
✟9,267.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
"Democracy is the worst form of government. Except for any other form of government." Sir Winston Churchill.

Good quote. Can't say I agree though. It's just the worst form of government. An empire is far better, in my eyes. And I think the early church would agree.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,981
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟960,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
The early church reflected the patriarchy of the culture and the hierarchy of the ministry (they couldn't vote their pastors out as they do in some churches today). Their social and economic structure was sometimes communal, based on the general lack of wealth and occasional extreme needs.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,525
8,427
up there
✟306,520.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The earliest followers of Jesus did not rebel physically but simply ignored the system of the day and left them to their politics and power games. They were too busy working outside the system loving all as self.

The later gentile Christians had no problem broadsiding the Kingdom that Jesus promoted and rejoined the Empire thy grew up with to build a kingdom of their own making.
 
Upvote 0

shagsnacks

Active Member
Feb 16, 2019
49
20
42
Illinois
✟9,267.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
The early church reflected the patriarchy of the culture and the hierarchy of the ministry (they couldn't vote their pastors out as they do in some churches today). Their social and economic structure was sometimes communal, based on the general lack of wealth and occasional extreme needs.

Umm, well that and that Plato had a significant influence on early Christian thought. And, Plato hated democracy.
 
Upvote 0

shagsnacks

Active Member
Feb 16, 2019
49
20
42
Illinois
✟9,267.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Democracy is mob rule. The exact thing the founders wished to avoid in fashioning a Constitutional representative republican form of government.

Very good. Although I don't think they went far enough honestly. But then, we've become more democratic since the founding fathers so that's not really fair I guess.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

shagsnacks

Active Member
Feb 16, 2019
49
20
42
Illinois
✟9,267.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
The earliest followers of Jesus did not rebel physically but simply ignored the system of the day and left them to their politics and power games. They were too busy working outside the system loving all as self.

The later gentile Christians had no problem broadsiding the Kingdom that Jesus promoted and rejoined the Empire thy grew up with to build a kingdom of their own making.

In writing to the Romans, Paul stated:
Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,
Rom 13:4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.
 
Upvote 0

grasping the after wind

That's grasping after the wind
Jan 18, 2010
19,458
6,354
Clarence Center NY USA
✟237,637.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Very good. Although I don't think they went far enough honestly. But then, we've become more democratic since the founding fathers so that's not really fair I guess.

More Democratic? I don't think so. Unless you mean more dominated by the Democratic Party. If you look at the number of people that actually vote I can't see democracy being involved at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hieronymus
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,525
8,427
up there
✟306,520.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
In writing to the Romans, Paul stated:
Yeah, just like Jesus said to let the people do their Caesar thing but His followers were of the governance of the Father, not of man. That holds true today also. In other words don't cause trouble for them and they won't cause trouble for you. Love them as self and they have no reason to retaliate.
 
Upvote 0

shagsnacks

Active Member
Feb 16, 2019
49
20
42
Illinois
✟9,267.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
More Democratic? I don't think so. Unless you mean more dominated by the Democratic Party. If you look at the number of people that actually vote I can't see democracy being involved at all.

I mean that we once didn't even vote for Senators. Now we do. True enough, most people don't vote precisely because they see the failure of democracy.
 
Upvote 0

grasping the after wind

That's grasping after the wind
Jan 18, 2010
19,458
6,354
Clarence Center NY USA
✟237,637.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I mean that we once didn't even vote for Senators. Now we do. True enough, most people don't vote precisely because they see the failure of democracy.

I disagree. People don't vote because they are lazy not because they despise democracy.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

shagsnacks

Active Member
Feb 16, 2019
49
20
42
Illinois
✟9,267.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Yeah, just like Jesus said to let the people do their Caesar thing but His followers were of the governance of the Father, not of man. That holds true today also. In other words don't cause trouble for them and they won't cause trouble for you. Love them as self and they have no reason to retaliate.

Not quite. I think Augustine expounded on this passage the best. And empires are best equipped to do just that.

"Augustine of Hippo claimed that, while individuals should not resort immediately to violence, God has given the sword to government for good reason (based upon Romans 13:4)

"he asserted, peacefulness in the face of a grave wrong that could only be stopped by violence would be a sin. Defense of one's self or others could be a necessity, especially when authorized by a legitimate authority:

They who have waged war in obedience to the divine command, or in conformity with His laws, have represented in their persons the public justice or the wisdom of government, and in this capacity have put to death wicked men; such persons have by no means violated the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill."[20]"

Just war theory - Wikipedia
 
Upvote 0

shagsnacks

Active Member
Feb 16, 2019
49
20
42
Illinois
✟9,267.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
I disagree. People don't vote because they are lazy not because they despise democracy.

In some cases, true enough. But, for one, that's because we have a society of convenience. A society that makes people lazy. But, I mean, look at this election. How many do you think are going to sit out because they can't bring themselves to vote for either Trump or Biden? I know that was true of me in the last election. I don't think I'd have been able to sleep at night had I voted for either Trump or Clinton.

But I don't think it's laziness. I think it's because politicians don't give the people a reason to vote for them.
 
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
I mean that we once didn't even vote for Senators. Now we do. True enough, most people don't vote precisely because they see the failure of democracy.

A The position of the Christian is not to Vote, but to Pray.
 
Upvote 0

grasping the after wind

That's grasping after the wind
Jan 18, 2010
19,458
6,354
Clarence Center NY USA
✟237,637.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I mean that we once didn't even vote for Senators. Now we do. True enough, most people don't vote precisely because they see the failure of democracy.
I disagree. People don't vote out of laziness or apathy not out of any opinion of the efficacy of democracy.
As a matter of fact, this is how some people see government bureaucrats or how they view people that are described to them as "experts".

 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

shagsnacks

Active Member
Feb 16, 2019
49
20
42
Illinois
✟9,267.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
A The position of the Christian is not to vote, but to Pray.

Sounds pacifist to me. Upon reading the Bible, I have not come to the conclusion that Christianity is pacifist. The position of the Christian is not only to pray, but to speak out boldly against injustice. To change society. And to protect the innocent. Never thought of David as a pacifist. He was a warmonger. One after God's own heart.
 
Upvote 0