American Farmers Being Ordered To Depopulate Livestock And Destroy Crops

Neogaia777 · Apr 28, 2020

LostMarbels said:
I agree with your sentiment. I also agree the love of money is the root of all evil, and abandoning excess to work collectively is likely not going to happen.

I know, but I just thought I'd say it anyway...

I'll continue to wait till the Lord comes back if that's what I have to do, etc, and it more than likely will be what I'll have to do, etc...

God Bless!

FireDragon76 · Apr 28, 2020

If these industries were really such white knights, they would be giving away the food to their migrant workers. But why give away what you can charge money for?

hedrick · Apr 28, 2020

LostMarbels said:
I agree with your sentiment. I also agree the love of money is the root of all evil, and abandoning excess to work collectively is likely not going to happen.

"love of money." Maybe. But from the point of view of the employers, they know if the put more money into employee safety they're going to lose business to companies that don't. They don't have to be evil to want their companies to stay in business. The system is set up to produce the result it does, though certainly not intentionally.

Neogaia777 · Apr 28, 2020

FireDragon76 said:
If these industries were really such white knights, they would be giving away the food to their migrant workers. But why give away what you can charge money for?

Exactly!, etc...

Human beings are very sick, etc...

The way they/we operate right now is "completely insane", etc...

And I just sometimes want to scream "STOP THE INSANITY!", etc...

God Bless!

Paulos23 · Apr 28, 2020

LostMarbels said:
Do you think it is a good thing people are plowing under their entire crops, and pouring milk down drains?

It is not a good thing, but that is what happens when there is not much flexibility in the market from the producers to the buyers.

The market did not have this issue until we shutdown the market artificially. This happened as a direct result fo the country being shut down.

As with much of what is going on, it is showing the weakness of the current system. It should be possible to process that excess milk to power, but there isn't a market for that anymore. Or for the vegetables to be canned, but those plants are at capacity or are having problems. There should be a market for all the vegetables, the farmers just need to work harder on getting it out there to markets.

In short, this is the result of relying on middlemen that are not flexible enough when the market changes, as well as not having channels for excess production.

It may not be the fault of the farmers, but don't blame the shutdown completely either. The fault was always there and some other hiccup in the system would have exposed this as well.

I am doing what I can to support local farmers. I have milk dropped off as well as vegetables from a local co-op. But it will take time, and maybe a few growing seasons, for farmers to be able to tap into markets like those.

FireDragon76 · Apr 28, 2020

hedrick said:
"love of money." Maybe. But from the point of view of the employers, they know if the put more money into employee safety they're going to lose business to companies that don't. They don't have to be evil to want their companies to stay in business.

As economist Prof. Richard Wolff points out, under capitalism, business owners are pressured into these measures, not because they are evil, but because the system compels them to do so.

The basic moral calculus of the ideology, of course, is dubious. Incentivize self-interest and expecting good to magically come out of it seems a strange notion indeed. Of course, it seems like in recent years, that sort of apologetics has been laid aside and neoliberals just focus on the supposed inevitability of capitalism.

LostMarbels · Apr 28, 2020

hedrick said:
The only practical way to protect workers is to have regulations and inspections. That way all the vendors are on an even playing field, and we don't have a spiral to the bottom. But there are all kinds of political problems with doing that, ranging from companies paying politicians to ideological objections to the government doing that.

The biggest problem I have with most regulation is there practicality as a worker. On day one, you are sat down and shown all these safety videos to properly handle equipment. All the do's and don'ts of performing your job.... you quickly learn as an employee however, if you follow all the guidelines you will not meet your quota or performance requirements, and lose your job. If you get hurt by not following the guidelines, you lose your job. And there is always someone else to fill your position if you do not perform.

So you learn to cut corners without getting hurt, or you do not report injuries.

hedrick · Apr 28, 2020

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but it seems to me that Tyson intentionally provoked this. I wonder what they'll want from the President to stay open? At a minimum, the press are talking about protection from liability. I'm going to guess also financial help to upgrade their plants.

rjs330 · Apr 28, 2020

LostMarbels said:
SHAD SULLIVAN – REGION V DIRECTOR
Bellow, is a clip made and posted by Shad concerning our current farming situation during covid-19.

With restaurants and schools closed and not buying food and milk, farmers are being forced to throw out millions of pounds of crops, while millions of people go hungry across the country. Dairy farmers have been hit especially hard, and say that it’s not practical to stop milking cows, so millions of gallons of milk are being poured down the drain.

With restaurants and businesses closed, orders have effectively stopped for Brightly Farms

We are purposely destroying our own food stock over this virus. Throwing away millions of tons in produce, meat, and dairy. Stopping entire industries essential to life, not 'comfort', essential to life.

I do not care if you support this president or if you do not. This needs to come to an end or there will be no country for the survivors to live in. You cannot completely gut our nation's capability to produce for itself and call it a solution.

Trump supporters, hear me. This is totalitarian on a scale people only feared from Obama. If this does not stop, it will be the ruination of this country. Trump needs to put on his big boy pants and deal with this.

Trump is dealing with this. Trump didn't shut the country down. This was all on the states. They made choices on how to handle their own states.

Trump recommends things like reopening the economy and the left goes berserk. He didn't close it nor will he open it. Each state has to decide on their own. In fact Trump is now ordering meat processing to stay open. So when he sees the necessity he acts.

I have been saying this for a while. This shutdown is going to cause huge problems. Bigger than we imagined. So these states need to get in gear and start opening stuff up.

hedrick · Apr 28, 2020

FireDragon76 said:
As economist Prof. Richard Wolff points out, under capitalism, business owners are pressured into these measures, not because they are evil, but because the system compels them to do so.

The basic moral calculus of the ideology, of course, is dubious. Incentivize self-interest and expecting good to magically come out of it seems a strange notion indeed. Of course, it seems like in recent years, that sort of apologetics has been laid aside and neoliberals just focus on the supposed inevitability of capitalism.

Some things do come out of self-interest: efficiency and innovation. However other things don't. That's why we have government regulations. But if you have a government that doesn't believe in it, then you end up with a race to the bottom in wages, benefits and working conditions.

Every regulation costs, so you have to be careful, but since Reagan too many people in the US have felt that any regulation is evil.

FireDragon76 · Apr 28, 2020

Paulos23 said:
I am doing what I can to support local farmers. I have milk dropped off as well as vegetables from a local co-op. But it will take time, and maybe a few growing seasons, for farmers to be able to tap into markets like those.

Late capitalism has focused on centralization of production and distribution in the name of "efficiency". And that makes these sorts of businesses vulnerable to a pandemic.

Paulos23 · Apr 28, 2020

hedrick said:
I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but it seems to me that Tyson intentionally provoked this. I wonder what they'll want from the President to stay open? At a minimum, the press are talking about protection from liability. I'm going to guess also financial help to upgrade their plants.

At the very least, they don't want to pay for the safety violations they have and unsafe working conditions. There was a worker in the op video that was not coming back even with increased pay and a bonus. That speaks of bad conditions at that processing plant.

eleos1954 · Apr 28, 2020

LostMarbels said:
SHAD SULLIVAN – REGION V DIRECTOR
Bellow, is a clip made and posted by Shad concerning our current farming situation during covid-19.

With restaurants and schools closed and not buying food and milk, farmers are being forced to throw out millions of pounds of crops, while millions of people go hungry across the country. Dairy farmers have been hit especially hard, and say that it’s not practical to stop milking cows, so millions of gallons of milk are being poured down the drain.

With restaurants and businesses closed, orders have effectively stopped for Brightly Farms

We are purposely destroying our own food stock over this virus. Throwing away millions of tons in produce, meat, and dairy. Stopping entire industries essential to life, not 'comfort', essential to life.

I do not care if you support this president or if you do not. This needs to come to an end or there will be no country for the survivors to live in. You cannot completely gut our nation's capability to produce for itself and call it a solution.

Trump supporters, hear me. This is totalitarian on a scale people only feared from Obama. If this does not stop, it will be the ruination of this country. Trump needs to put on his big boy pants and deal with this.

This is very concerning ... any news clips from our government on this?

FireDragon76 · Apr 28, 2020

hedrick said:
Some things do come out of self-interest: efficiency and innovation. However other things don't. That's why we have government regulations. But if you have a government that doesn't believe in it, then you end up with a race to the bottom in wages, benefits and working conditions.

Taking apart of the regulatory state has been part of the political project of the Republican Party since the late 70's. The irony of course was that what made America an economic success story in the first place was government regulation and public-private cooperation that today many ideologues would decry as "socialism".

rjs330 · Apr 28, 2020

hedrick said:
In the US, no one is starving because of this problem. Some choices may not be there, but there's plenty of food in the grocery store. If people are starving it's for reasons other than food supply chain problems.

There is food right now. But think future. Food only lasts so long and has to be constantly replaced. If there is less food to replace the food that is going out, it creates a problem. If we destroy the corn crop now, then when the corn in the stores run out there won't be a replacement until the next harvest. Creating food shortages.

Neogaia777 · Apr 28, 2020

Why are people so afraid over not having more or so very much more than others or one another, etc, such intense fear with that there, etc... Yet another part that is very "sick" about humanity right now, etc...

Let me put it another way, this whole COVID "thing", could be, or might be meant to have or be, etc, a "wake up call", etc...? God showing us the direction He wants (or wanted) us to take or go, etc... If it had not happened at all, etc, we were for 100% sure most certainly headed for 100% complete and total devastation and for sure destruction, etc, but now that this has come about, or has happened, etc, we are only for 99.9% for sure headed there, etc...

Good news right...?

God Bless!

Ricky M · Apr 28, 2020

Desk trauma said:
Destroying excess agricultural product does not gut out ability to produce more.

If you can't sell your current crop, you can't afford seed or fuel to plant a new crop

LostMarbels · Apr 28, 2020

Paulos23 said:
It is not a good thing, but that is what happens when there is not much flexibility in the market from the producers to the buyers.

That is actualy a sensible argument. Good read. Good post.

Paulos23 said:
In short, this is the result of relying on middlemen that are not flexible enough when the market changes, as well as not having channels for excess production.

I do not think any country is ready for a complete shut down of all industries for months.

FireDragon76 · Apr 28, 2020

hedrick said:
In the US, no one is starving because of this problem. Some choices may not be there, but there's plenty of food in the grocery store. If people are starving it's for reasons other than food supply chain problems.

There's plenty of food, people just have to get creative. Instead of pork or chicken, you can pick up some beans or one of those trendy new meat substitutes. It's better for the planet, anyways.

pitabread · Apr 28, 2020

Neogaia777 said:
Let me put it another way, this whole COVID "thing", could be, or might be meant to have or be, etc, a "wake up call", etc...?

People have short term memories. I don't expect this pandemic to have a long-lasting impact on society.

American Farmers Being Ordered To Depopulate Livestock And Destroy Crops

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