What it would entail to lose your salvation.

Ricky M

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1. We are free to believe or disbelieve according to our own free will.

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve

Deu 30:19 - "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

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2. Righteousness/Salvation is based upon belief/faith.
3. Belief and faith are not acts of works.
4. We are not saved by acts of works.

Romans 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. “
4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works. 13It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. 16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not. 18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”d 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It’s a gift of God and not of works, let any man should boast.

Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved”

Romans 5:1 "Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

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5. Works are a reliable indicator of salvation status

James 2:
14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is uselessd ? 21Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

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6. Once His, God will never turn us away because of our works


John 3:15-16 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 6:37-39 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise [never] cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

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7. Even when saved we retain our right to believe/disbelieve


Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve

Deu 30:19 "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servant ye are to obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

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8. By disbelief (apostasy) one can turn themselves away from salvation

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world thru the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing to turn back from the Holy commandment delivered to them. What the true Proverb says has happened to them: "the dog returns to it's own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

2 Peter 1:10-11 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:22-23 In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister

John 15:1 thru 6 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

2 Peter 1:5-9 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

1 John 2:18-26 18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life. 26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

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9. Belief/Disbelief is not an act of works


(See nos. 2/3/4 above).

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10. Salvation is not lost by works.


(See no. 6 above)

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11. Salvation is forfeited by disbelief


(See no. 8 above)
 
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Quietus

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Any involvement in the damaging or breaking of a covenant relationship makes you an adulterous and adultery is grounds for one party to divorce the other party.

Good thing God’s ways are not our ways.
 
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GospelS

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Jer. 18:5 Then the word of the Lord came to me. 6 He said, “Can I not do with you, Israel, as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, Israel. 7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.

The fierce anger of the LORD will not turn back until He has fully accomplished the purposes of His heart. In the days to come you will understand this. Jeremiah 30:24
 
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bling

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Instead of this being yet another thread out of billions on how you can or cannot lose your salvation, let's take a look at what would have to happen for you to lose your salvation. To answer that question we have to examine how a person is saved.

The bible says that we are are saved by grace through faith in the gospel of Jeaus Christ which Paul describes the Gospel quite well in 1 Corrinthians 15:1-8). Other verses that say that we are saved by grace through faith are Ephesians 2:8-9, Roman's 10:9, John 3:16, Romans 1:16, John 5:24, 1 John 5:13, Titus 3:5, Acts 16:30-31, and there are more but I think cannot think of them at the moment).

The Bible says that there is not one person who ever lived that cannot be saved (Isaiah 50;2).

The bible also says that when a person comes to Christ and places their faith in him that they are a new creation (2 Corrinthians 5:17). For a born again Christian to lose their salvation God would have to somehow undo our new creation. Something that NO verse in the Bible says that God will do.

A Christian is redeemed and when they are born again they are born of incorruptible seed (1 Peter 1:23). They are declared Justified and Righteous to God (Roman's 5:1, 2 Corrinthians 5:21) For our salvation to be lost God would have to break his promise of one day redeeming us when our Lord returns and he would have go declare us unrighteous (even though we were bought by the perfect blood of Jesus Christ and this is an impossibility as Peter says in 1 Peter 1:12) Peter also calls our inheritance "reserved in heaven for us as an inheritance that can never blemish,perish, or fade away) so, this is impossible.

Paul also talks about when we are born again we are marked with a seal by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14) for God to take away our salvation he would have to break this seal and break this security in Christ Which is the complete opposite of what a seal means in the Bible. See the seals of the tribulation scrolls in Revelation or click here for a definition of what a seal means in the Bible and where the word seal is used in the Biblehttps://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/seal/

Finally if a Christian could lose their salvation than Paul, Peter, and John lied to us and our Christian faith is built amongst a web of lies for the reasons I gave above. The apostle John talked nothing short of eternal security in Christ, Peter did, and so did Paul. Not only that but the writer of Hebrews did as well in Hebrews 10:10.

And to top it all off Jesus Christ (who many Christian's believe to be God in the Flesh) lied as well. Jesus promises in John 6:37-40 that not ONE of those the Father gives him will be lost. He again promises in John 10:9 that he is the gate and whoever enters through him WILL be saved. See the beginning of John 10 until John 10:9 to fully understand just what Christ is talking about here.

He also says in John 10:28-30 that he gives his sheep (Born again Christians) Eternal life. He promises that nobody can take them out of Gods hand (not even themselves to claim that is to claim that somehow we are more powerful than God plus if somebody could freely walk out of Gods hand dont you think he would have mentioned it in his promise meant to comfort his believers?) He also says that his sheep will NEVER perish!

In order for us to lose our salvation we would have to redefine what Eternal life means correct? Because idk the last time I heard the word Eternal it meant FOREVER!

Not to mention in order to lose our salvation we would have to lose the Holy Spirit. Which God promised would be with us FOREVER (John 14:16) (! Again with that forever/eternal word... must be the meaning of forever has changed in the last 2,000 years...)


So to say that you can lose your salvation is calling God a liar and if you cannot trust God who can you trust? If we cannot trust scripture than who can we trust? Just like if Christ was never raised from the dead our faith is in vain if we do not and cannot trust the promises of God than our faith is in vain as well. God has NEVER failed go keep a promise yet, never has, and never will. When Jesus said in Revelation 3:5 that those who are victorious (Born again. John uses the same terminology in 1 John 5:4) he will NEVER erase them from the book of life (curses there's that never, eternal, forever word again!) but will acknowledge our name before God the Father and his Angel's as righteous! Tell me, if we can never be erased from the book of life and are declared righteous just... how can we lose our salvation again?

These points and examples are just some of the verses in the bible that speak about the security of the born again believer.

In order for a "Christian" to "lose" their salvation is if they were never born again and had proper faith to begin with with and therefore were never saved. It takes the Holy Spirit to be saved, yes? I think we can all agree on that. A proper faith will always have repentance,works,dying bvb to self, and ultimately sanctification. If those things are absent from your life it's about time you started rethinking your faith. If all of those things are present in your life than have peace! You are saved and Hod has promised to give you a new body when he returns. We seek Jesus Christ as a way OUT of our sin problem not to remain living in sin forever.

  1. Gal. 6: 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
Paul explains plainly that eternal life is the harvest in the future we do not want to “give up”, but that also teaches we can give it up.

Our doing good stuff while here on earth (or better: our allowing God to work through us doing good stuff) is not to “earn”, “payback” or to allow us to “hold on to our salvation”. We want to continue to utilize Godly type Love and not get caught up in carnal type love so the huge Love Feast of Heaven (unselfish type Love only) still has value to us and not something we would sell on the cheap.

As far as being saved by faith only without “works”, that is true, but just like the Prodigal son wimped out of taking the punishment he fully deserved and humbly returned to the Father, we must wimp out, give up surrender to our enemy God and that will allow God to shower us with His charity.

  1. Eternal Life in heaven is spoken of as our inheritance and not something we actually have at the moment. All other Gifts of God we have right away, but heaven is truly ours as a birthright (our inheritance).



    Part of the meaning to the concept of being given a gift is the fact that the ownership of the gift actually transfers to the receiver of the gift and as such the receiver of the gift can do what he/she wants to do with the gift.



    The Hebrew writer in Heb. 12:16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.

    Esau own the “gift” of the first born inheritance rights, which could not be taken from him by anyone, nor could someone steal it from his hand, not even his father could take them back, but Esau could sell it or give it away.


    The Hebrew writer is telling us not to give away or sell our birth right (as born again Christians) which is our inheritance of eternal life.



    We own a paid up tax free deed to a home in heaven, so that home was gifted to us, but the Hebrew writer is saying we could sell (or give it away) like Esau did.

  2. I can go through each of your verses one by one showing the context and alternative interpretations but that takes lots of words and a very long post which in the past you have not wanted to weigh through, so I will give you some verses that show how the Christian can give up (this is not saying God is taking it back) eternal life:





John 15:1-2 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit".


John 15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned".


1 Corinthians 10:12 "Therefore let him who thinks he is standing, beware, that he does not fall".


2 Chronicles 15:2 "If you search for him, he will let himself be found by you; but if you leave him, he will leave you".


James 1:14-15 "But each one is tempted when he is lured away and enticed by his own desires. Then when that desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death".

James 5:19-20 "Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his ways, will have saved a soul from death".


Hebrews 3:12-14 "Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called today, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end."


1 Timothy 1:19 "Keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and their faith has been shipwrecked".


Hebrews 2:1 "Therefore we must pay greater attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away".


Romans 8:13 "For if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live".


1 John 2:4-6 "The one who says, I have come to know Him, and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked".


1 Timothy 4:1 "But the Holy Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons".


Deuteronomy 8:11 "Take care that you do not forget the Lord your God, by failing to keep his commandments, his ordinances, and his statutes, which I am commanding you today".


John 6:66-68 "As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew, and were not walking with Him anymore. Jesus said therefore to the twelve, You do not want to go away also, do you? Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? It is You who has the words of eternal life".


2 Timothy 2:12 "If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us".


2 Peter 2:20-21 "They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them."


Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.


Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.


Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father."


John 15:4-6 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned".


I can quickly add ...

John 17:

3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God,

and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

The NT teaches that this "knowing" refers to a personal relationship of some depth.

For example:

Romans 8:

13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die;

but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

This being led is a continual action, not a one-time deal.

Those being led have a personal relationship with God.


Yes, it's all about a close relationship of some depth.

This will result in a correct "heart attitude" about sin and repentance!
 
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BBAS 64

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The sheep wanted to return, but did not know the way.

Good Day, Bling

Sheep are very timid, defenseless depend upon the Shepard for all things even showing them the way...

The Shepard will go and get His sheep, the Shepard wants to get His own and does so consistently.

I do not know what they want ( it is save to assume they want their Shepard)... Nor does the Shepard care, they are under His constant care and He is responsible for them in every way. Shepards do not take that very lightly as they will lay down their very life for their own sheep.

I think Alfred Edersheim does a very good job in one of his works in covering the fullness of these types of things in the Jewish life and culture.

In Him

Bill
 
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bling

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Good Day, Bling

Sheep are very timid, defenseless depend upon the Shepard for all things even showing them the way...

The Shepard will go and get His sheep, the Shepard wants to get His own and does so consistently.

I do not know what they want ( it is save to assume they want their Shepard)... Nor does the Shepard care, they are under His constant care and He is responsible for them in every way. Shepards do not take that very lightly as they will lay down their very life for their own sheep.

I think Alfred Edersheim does a very good job in one of his works in covering the fullness of these types of things in the Jewish life and culture.

In Him

Bill

Whenever we try to understand scripture we have got to take it in context, context, context, context and context. Who is saying it, when did he say it, who is he talking to, why is he saying it, and what are the verses around what was said. Christ is addressing the

2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.” 3 Then Jesus told them this parable:

There is not just one parable but we have three parables given together:

One you have a coin which does not know it is lost or the way home, (the woman looks hard for it)

Another you have a sheep who does know it is lost, wants to be home but does not know how to get there (the Shepherd goes after).

Those two would not upset the Pharisees and teachers of the Law, but the third parable actually has two lost in it:

The prodigal son (representing the tax collectors and sinners) who knows he is lost and does not want to go home to begin with, so the Father does not seek after him, since this is a real learning opportunity for the young son and it has to be his choice.

The four lost is the son who thinks he is home in a strong relationship with the father (the Pharisees and teachers of the Law) but he is not if he does not join the party, Jesus leaves it to them to finish the story, what will you do?
 
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ForTheKingdom

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Instead of this being yet another thread out of billions on how you can or cannot lose your salvation

You mean, let's not do the very thing that you've done?!

Just two of the many verses that could be listed :

Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. (1 Corinthians 10:12)​

The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. (Revelation 3:5)​

The former meaning you can fall. The latter meaning it is possible for your name to be blotted out - and for that to happen, it needs to be there in the first place!

Have a happy similar thread to the other billion! :wave:
 
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fhansen

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Instead of this being yet another thread out of billions on how you can or cannot lose your salvation, let's take a look at what would have to happen for you to lose your salvation. To answer that question we have to examine how a person is saved.

The bible says that we are are saved by grace through faith in the gospel of Jeaus Christ which Paul describes the Gospel quite well in 1 Corrinthians 15:1-8). Other verses that say that we are saved by grace through faith are Ephesians 2:8-9, Roman's 10:9, John 3:16, Romans 1:16, John 5:24, 1 John 5:13, Titus 3:5, Acts 16:30-31, and there are more but I think cannot think of them at the moment).

The Bible says that there is not one person who ever lived that cannot be saved (Isaiah 50;2).

The bible also says that when a person comes to Christ and places their faith in him that they are a new creation (2 Corrinthians 5:17). For a born again Christian to lose their salvation God would have to somehow undo our new creation. Something that NO verse in the Bible says that God will do.

A Christian is redeemed and when they are born again they are born of incorruptible seed (1 Peter 1:23). They are declared Justified and Righteous to God (Roman's 5:1, 2 Corrinthians 5:21) For our salvation to be lost God would have to break his promise of one day redeeming us when our Lord returns and he would have go declare us unrighteous (even though we were bought by the perfect blood of Jesus Christ and this is an impossibility as Peter says in 1 Peter 1:12) Peter also calls our inheritance "reserved in heaven for us as an inheritance that can never blemish,perish, or fade away) so, this is impossible.

Paul also talks about when we are born again we are marked with a seal by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14) for God to take away our salvation he would have to break this seal and break this security in Christ Which is the complete opposite of what a seal means in the Bible. See the seals of the tribulation scrolls in Revelation or click here for a definition of what a seal means in the Bible and where the word seal is used in the Biblehttps://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/seal/

Finally if a Christian could lose their salvation than Paul, Peter, and John lied to us and our Christian faith is built amongst a web of lies for the reasons I gave above. The apostle John talked nothing short of eternal security in Christ, Peter did, and so did Paul. Not only that but the writer of Hebrews did as well in Hebrews 10:10.

And to top it all off Jesus Christ (who many Christian's believe to be God in the Flesh) lied as well. Jesus promises in John 6:37-40 that not ONE of those the Father gives him will be lost. He again promises in John 10:9 that he is the gate and whoever enters through him WILL be saved. See the beginning of John 10 until John 10:9 to fully understand just what Christ is talking about here.

He also says in John 10:28-30 that he gives his sheep (Born again Christians) Eternal life. He promises that nobody can take them out of Gods hand (not even themselves to claim that is to claim that somehow we are more powerful than God plus if somebody could freely walk out of Gods hand dont you think he would have mentioned it in his promise meant to comfort his believers?) He also says that his sheep will NEVER perish!

In order for us to lose our salvation we would have to redefine what Eternal life means correct? Because idk the last time I heard the word Eternal it meant FOREVER!

Not to mention in order to lose our salvation we would have to lose the Holy Spirit. Which God promised would be with us FOREVER (John 14:16) (! Again with that forever/eternal word... must be the meaning of forever has changed in the last 2,000 years...)


So to say that you can lose your salvation is calling God a liar and if you cannot trust God who can you trust? If we cannot trust scripture than who can we trust? Just like if Christ was never raised from the dead our faith is in vain if we do not and cannot trust the promises of God than our faith is in vain as well. God has NEVER failed go keep a promise yet, never has, and never will. When Jesus said in Revelation 3:5 that those who are victorious (Born again. John uses the same terminology in 1 John 5:4) he will NEVER erase them from the book of life (curses there's that never, eternal, forever word again!) but will acknowledge our name before God the Father and his Angel's as righteous! Tell me, if we can never be erased from the book of life and are declared righteous just... how can we lose our salvation again?

These points and examples are just some of the verses in the bible that speak about the security of the born again believer.

In order for a "Christian" to "lose" their salvation is if they were never born again and had proper faith to begin with with and therefore were never saved. It takes the Holy Spirit to be saved, yes? I think we can all agree on that. A proper faith will always have repentance,works,dying bvb to self, and ultimately sanctification. If those things are absent from your life it's about time you started rethinking your faith. If all of those things are present in your life than have peace! You are saved and Hod has promised to give you a new body when he returns. We seek Jesus Christ as a way OUT of our sin problem not to remain living in sin forever.
Believers are warned over and over again about remaining in the faith, about refraining from sin, about investing their talents, about being vigilant, striving, persevering, etc, etc, with loss of place in the Kingdom at stake. Faith opens the doorway to God as it's the doorway to becoming just in His eyes. We're forgiven, washed, cleansed, made new creations as we die to the old self and rise to the new.

And while this cleansing is also an ongoing process that we're to participate and progress in, we can also lose our state of justice or righteousness, by turning back to sin/life in the flesh, back to injustice and away from God. Sin kills-and Scripture is quite explicit about sin keeping us from heaven. John distinguishes between sin that leads to death and sin that does not (1 John 5:16-17). Sin that keeps us out of heaven are mentioned in Gal 5:19-21 or Rev 22:14-15. Such sin, by ts nature, opposes love of God and neighbor and destroys love in us. And love is the measure of man's justice or righteousness to begin with.
 
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I remember back years ago (when I was still on the fence regarding eternal and conditional salvation. I had come to walk with the Lord and love Him. But I also realized the fight I was in between the devil, the world, and most importantly my flesh and the proclivity to stray. One night during my devotion I sought God and prayed a prayer that went something like this: "Father I know you and I've come to believe you are good and the Lord and Savior of my soul. But I also know myself and my tendencies to wander, Please, God, if you see that I'm ever going to walk out of your hand and depart from the faith, please just take me home before that happens."

That night I got the peace and assurance that He heard and would answer that prayer if it ever came to that. Now I know what I believe as it relates to eternal/conditional salvation. And I share this not to purport my own beliefs. But it's seriously something to think about regardless what side of the debate you fall on. It's not about being pious or cowardly. But holding a reverence and awe toward God.

Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it;
Prone to leave the God I love:
Take my heart, oh, take and seal it
With Thy Spirit from above.
Rescued thus from sin and danger,
Purchased by the Savior’s blood,
May I walk on earth a stranger,
As a son and heir of God.
 
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SPF

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The question isn't really whether or not a person can "lose" their Salvation. Nobody can lose their Salvation. The question is whether or not after a person has been forgiven, redeemed, and sealed with the Holy Spirit.... can they then commit apostasy and willingly choose to reject their Salvation. Nobody just "oops" and loses their Salvation.

The reason this argument is as old as it is, is because Scripture indicates both. For those who think you cannot ever reject your salvation, there are a good number of atheists who engage in the apologetics section who claim to have been Christians for decades before "losing" their Salvation. Go tell them they were never Christians and let me know how it goes.

Personally, whether a person can reject their Salvation, or a person never was saved in the first place, the person in question is still in the exact same place when you think about it, and that's what matters. So instead of arguing whether or not they were ever saved, we should probably be trying to help them come back to Christ.
 
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GospelS

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What it would entail to lose your salvation?

Deliberate sinning after having received the knowledge of the truth,....

trampling on the Son of God,
profaning the blood of the covenant that sanctified them,
and insulting the Spirit of grace. (Hebrews 10:26-29)
 
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Danigt22

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We need to remember the parable of Christ and the seed of the word, just as the epistle to the Hebrews reinforce. If we are not fruitful we will be cut off out of grace. Our faith was never real, and it will be reveal in our works. The same spirit of Christ that give salvation also gives sanctification. You are not losing salvation, since never had it.
 
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Zao is life

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Instead of this being yet another thread out of billions on how you can or cannot lose your salvation, let's take a look at what would have to happen for you to lose your salvation. To answer that question we have to examine how a person is saved.

The bible says that we are are saved by grace through faith in the gospel of Jeaus Christ which Paul describes the Gospel quite well in 1 Corrinthians 15:1-8). Other verses that say that we are saved by grace through faith are Ephesians 2:8-9, Roman's 10:9, John 3:16, Romans 1:16, John 5:24, 1 John 5:13, Titus 3:5, Acts 16:30-31, and there are more but I think cannot think of them at the moment).

The Bible says that there is not one person who ever lived that cannot be saved (Isaiah 50;2).

The bible also says that when a person comes to Christ and places their faith in him that they are a new creation (2 Corrinthians 5:17). For a born again Christian to lose their salvation God would have to somehow undo our new creation. Something that NO verse in the Bible says that God will do.

A Christian is redeemed and when they are born again they are born of incorruptible seed (1 Peter 1:23). They are declared Justified and Righteous to God (Roman's 5:1, 2 Corrinthians 5:21) For our salvation to be lost God would have to break his promise of one day redeeming us when our Lord returns and he would have go declare us unrighteous (even though we were bought by the perfect blood of Jesus Christ and this is an impossibility as Peter says in 1 Peter 1:12) Peter also calls our inheritance "reserved in heaven for us as an inheritance that can never blemish,perish, or fade away) so, this is impossible.

Paul also talks about when we are born again we are marked with a seal by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14) for God to take away our salvation he would have to break this seal and break this security in Christ Which is the complete opposite of what a seal means in the Bible. See the seals of the tribulation scrolls in Revelation or click here for a definition of what a seal means in the Bible and where the word seal is used in the Biblehttps://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/seal/

Finally if a Christian could lose their salvation than Paul, Peter, and John lied to us and our Christian faith is built amongst a web of lies for the reasons I gave above. The apostle John talked nothing short of eternal security in Christ, Peter did, and so did Paul. Not only that but the writer of Hebrews did as well in Hebrews 10:10.

And to top it all off Jesus Christ (who many Christian's believe to be God in the Flesh) lied as well. Jesus promises in John 6:37-40 that not ONE of those the Father gives him will be lost. He again promises in John 10:9 that he is the gate and whoever enters through him WILL be saved. See the beginning of John 10 until John 10:9 to fully understand just what Christ is talking about here.

He also says in John 10:28-30 that he gives his sheep (Born again Christians) Eternal life. He promises that nobody can take them out of Gods hand (not even themselves to claim that is to claim that somehow we are more powerful than God plus if somebody could freely walk out of Gods hand dont you think he would have mentioned it in his promise meant to comfort his believers?) He also says that his sheep will NEVER perish!

In order for us to lose our salvation we would have to redefine what Eternal life means correct? Because idk the last time I heard the word Eternal it meant FOREVER!

Not to mention in order to lose our salvation we would have to lose the Holy Spirit. Which God promised would be with us FOREVER (John 14:16) (! Again with that forever/eternal word... must be the meaning of forever has changed in the last 2,000 years...)


So to say that you can lose your salvation is calling God a liar and if you cannot trust God who can you trust? If we cannot trust scripture than who can we trust? Just like if Christ was never raised from the dead our faith is in vain if we do not and cannot trust the promises of God than our faith is in vain as well. God has NEVER failed go keep a promise yet, never has, and never will. When Jesus said in Revelation 3:5 that those who are victorious (Born again. John uses the same terminology in 1 John 5:4) he will NEVER erase them from the book of life (curses there's that never, eternal, forever word again!) but will acknowledge our name before God the Father and his Angel's as righteous! Tell me, if we can never be erased from the book of life and are declared righteous just... how can we lose our salvation again?

These points and examples are just some of the verses in the bible that speak about the security of the born again believer.

In order for a "Christian" to "lose" their salvation is if they were never born again and had proper faith to begin with with and therefore were never saved. It takes the Holy Spirit to be saved, yes? I think we can all agree on that. A proper faith will always have repentance,works,dying bvb to self, and ultimately sanctification. If those things are absent from your life it's about time you started rethinking your faith. If all of those things are present in your life than have peace! You are saved and Hod has promised to give you a new body when he returns. We seek Jesus Christ as a way OUT of our sin problem not to remain living in sin forever.

It's always been a really difficult one this, for me, because while all the scriptures you quoted in your OP state what you say they do, there are other scriptures which warn us that for example those who deny Christ, He will deny, and also the letter to the Hebrews implies that it is possible for someone who was saved, to fall away from faith, and also the statement by Jesus in the Revelation that He will not blot out the names of those who overcome from the Book of Life implies that it is possible for a saved Christian to have his name blotted out of the Book of Life.

So from what I can see, putting all scripture together, the implication in scripture is that (a) salvation is not earned or merited; and (b) Christ will keep those who belong to Him - unless someone who is saved makes a conscious choice to fall away. In other words, Christ will still not force salvation upon anyone who refuses it.

So for me the question is not, Is someone who is once saved always saved? But rather: Is it possible for someone who was saved through faith and knows the truth, to make a conscious choice to throw it all away?
 
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Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)


And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19-20)

Paul says,

  1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).

  2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).

  3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).

  4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).

  5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).

  6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).

  7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).

  8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).

  9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).

  10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

Now, ya gotta change all of these verses above here to say that a believer cannot fall away from the faith in order to make it fit your belief. If we were just talking about 3-5 verses that would be one thing, but the sheer number of mentions of believers falling away is too astronomical to ignore (Unless somebody is desperate to not wanting to see the truth).
 
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Danigt22

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Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)


And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19-20)

Paul says,

  1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).

  2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).

  3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).

  4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).

  5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).

  6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).

  7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).

  8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).

  9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).

  10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

Now, ya gotta change all of these verses above here to say that a believer cannot fall away from the faith in order to make it fit your belief. If we were just talking about 3-5 verses that would be one thing, but the sheer number of mentions of believers falling away is too astronomical to ignore (Unless somebody is desperate to not wanting to see the truth).

This is very useful to refute those who twist Paul teaching.
 
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Basil the Great

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Good Day, Lost4Word

He was never saved.

Augustine: The Son therefore goes on to say: Those that You gave me, I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the Scripture might be fulfilled. The betrayer of Christ was called the son of perdition, as foreordained to perdition, according to the Scripture, where it is specially prophesied of him in the 109th Psalm.

Thayer Definition:
1) destroying, utter destruction
1a) of vessels
2) a perishing, ruin, destruction
2a) of money
2b) the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell

In Him,

Bill

We are not in a position to know if Judas was saved or not. However, it seems likely that he did have a personal relationship with Jesus, so we might be on shaky ground to claim that he was never saved.
 
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Basil the Great

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Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)


And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19-20)

Paul says,

  1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).

  2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).

  3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).

  4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).

  5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).

  6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).

  7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).

  8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).

  9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).

  10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

Now, ya gotta change all of these verses above here to say that a believer cannot fall away from the faith in order to make it fit your belief. If we were just talking about 3-5 verses that would be one thing, but the sheer number of mentions of believers falling away is too astronomical to ignore (Unless somebody is desperate to not wanting to see the truth).

This post might just be the most useful one listed on CF in many moons.....
 
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Now, ya gotta change all of these verses above here to say that a believer cannot fall away from the faith in order to make it fit your belief.

I'm sure someone will say they're not in context / the culture was different and doesn't apply today / you're making it works based etc etc... As for me, I've saved your post and will use it. And hopefully it opens many eyes.


We are not in a position to know if Judas was saved or not. However, it seems likely that he did have a personal relationship with Jesus, so we might be on shaky ground to claim that he was never saved.

I don't know but in John 6:70, Jesus says "Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil," so possibly not, but I certainly wouldn't be dogmatic about it!

Basil the Great said:
This post might just be the most useful one listed on CF in many moons.....

Agreed!
 
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