Now, are they actually Bible Christian brothers?
I am just asking and I am not looking to argue with anyone.
The SDA's own material and productions tell us that
they believe exclusively in a doctrine called the "Investigative Judgment"
hmmm where have we seen that posted before on this thread?
SDA's believe exclusively in a doctrine called the "Investigative Judgment"
where we then found this still-irrefutable-answer.
=============================
Judgment as we see in
Romans 2:4-16
and in 2 Cor 5:10
And in Dan 7:9-10
Yes I am aware of those chapters describing that very judgment.
===============================
But I think there are some that want even more opportunities to invite that same answer ... maybe there is something about "irrefutable" that makes one want to see it again.
I am one of those people that loves to see the details in that answer so..
==================== 2 Cor 5
2 Cor 5:10
10 For
we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his
deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether
good or bad.
Some will say that 2 Cor 5:10 "needs to be fixed" so it does not look like some sort of "investigative" judgment where facts are reviewed and conclusions drawn. ... ok not trying to argue with them on whatever they need at that point.
=================== Daniel 7
Dan 7
he Ancient of Days
9 “I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took
His seat;
His vesture
was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne
was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels
were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.
...
13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
... 21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them 22
until the Ancient of Days came a
nd judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived
when the saints took possession of the kingdom.
Some will say that Daniel 7 "needs to be fixed" so it does not look like some sort of "investigative" judgment where facts are reviewed and conclusions drawn. ... ok not trying to argue with them on whatever they need at that point.
=============== Romans 2
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are
storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will
render to each person according to his deeds:
success:
7 to
those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and
immortality, eternal life;
fail:
8 but to those who are
selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness,
wrath and indignation. 9
There will be tribulation and distress for
every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
success:
10 but
glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is
no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13
for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law
will be justified.
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16
on the day when, according to my gospel,
God will judge the secrets of men
through Christ Jesus.
Some will say that Romans 2 "needs to be fixed" so it does not look like some sort of "investigative" judgment where facts are reviewed and conclusions drawn. ... ok not trying to argue with them on whatever they need at that point.
Here is what the SDA don't understand, yes we will stand before the judgement seat, but not regarding salvation, but rewards or lack of based on how we lived our lives.
1. I think we would all agree that SDAs are not Calvinists - so if that is the complaint then we simply stand with those who are not Calvinists when we point out that Bible does not support OSAS or Calvinism.
2. SDAs teach that we "are saved by grace through faith" but that does not mean we are feeling the need to "fix" those texts quoted above.
3.The texts I just quoted above are true - even without 'fixing' them
- the Bible says "
the wages of sin is death" in Rom 3:23.
Romans 2 and 1 Cor 6 make it clear when they say "
do not be deceived" into thinking that the reward for evil deeds is "heaven". 2 Cor 5:10 says to "be rewarded for the deeds done in the body whether good OR BAD". No text says that the reward for bad deeds is 'heaven' or "less toys in heaven" so to speak... rather it is not heaven at all according to Paul in 1 Cor 6 and Christ in Matthew 7.
Yes - an extreme form of eisegesis could be used to "read into" those texts a kind of "yes but hopefully this just means less toys in heaven as reward for bad deeds on earth" sort of insert -- but that is hardly objective and is not even remotely exegesis.
========================
Now let me ask you a question... the person that brought up "Investigative Judgment" on this thread is not you and is not me... but interesting that when the texts are provided above - that person does not address the issue. Would you agree that one possible reason for that -- is that it would require looking at these texts instead of relying on a non-Bible argument against SDA doctrine?
If that is the case - what would there be - to be gained by non-bible arguments against SDAs or in fact against any denomination?
