ORIGIN OF THE 7th DAY SABBATH IN CREATION

LoveGodsWord said:

I am sorry dear friend. I do not follow the "shadow laws" of Moses

Click to expand...

Then why do you constantly quote scripture from the law of Moses.


The Church is under the New Covenant.


The law required that the children of Israel followed specific guidelines concerning the Sabbath.


Here are a few —


And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15




Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3



Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36



‘And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10



If you desire to keep the Sabbath according to the law of Moses, then you are required to observe this things as well.


By constantly referring to all the Old Testament scriptures that you quote, you obligated to observe all of these Sabbath requirements from the law of Moses, not just the ones you pick out.


Frien we as Christians are under the New Covenant, and follow the teachings of Christ.


No where did Jesus Christ command His Church to follow the Sabbath laws of the Old Covenant.




having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:14-17



One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Romans 14:5



Each Christian, has the liberty to decide how they esteem each day.



No where in the New Testament is there instructions to gather on a certain day, to go to Church.


It’s not a sin to go to Church on Sunday, or Thursday or Monday.


It’s not a sin to cook on Saturday or drive to the country traveling more than a mile.


It’s not a sin to make your bed on a Saturday.


It’s not a sin to jog, or go to the store, or go fishing on a Saturday.



If you have a scripture from Jesus or His Apostles that teach us otherwise, then please post it now, otherwise you are teaching the commandments of men.



No where does the New Testament teach us to call ourselves “Adventist”, or follow the teachings of Ellen G. White.


It’s all man made.




JLB

LoveGodsWord said:

Yea not really dear friend. All these have been answered already through the scriptures many times already and your just repeating yourself again. We are not in the old covenant now we are in the new covenant dear friend. God's Law though (not the Mosiac laws) have the same role they always have had under the new covenant and that is to give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments according to the new covenant scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. There is not a single scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a man made tradition and teaching of men that breaks the commandments of God that JESUS warns us about in MATTHEW 15:2-9. God knows that many break his commandment out of ignorance however and in times of ignorance God does not hold us accountable for sin until we have been given a knowledge of the truth *ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31 but if God gives us a knowledge of His truth and we reject it according to the scriptures there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come for all those who reject the gift of Gods dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and do dispite to the Spirit of God's grace *HEBREWS 10:26-29.

Hope this helps.

Click to expand...

Are you joking??? You don't ever try to rebut his statements, like you're doing now. You wont dare show where JLB is wrong or right because God's word would prove him right. You normally repost your long questionable sermons and say, you've been shown.
Let's see you take on what is false in his statements and show us what is right from the scripture.

LoveGodsWord said:

Sure I have I guess you just did not like the answer. Sorry bout that but they are God's Words not mine so your disagreement is with God not me. We will have to agree to disagree dear friend. Thanks for sharing.

Click to expand...

LGW, we can distinguish your words from the word of God. You attached texts to your comments that don't prove your words.
Let's look at how you do your thing.

LGW said- God's Law though (not the Mosiac laws) have the same role they always have had under the new covenant and that is to give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7;

Click to expand...

#1 rebuttal, The Law of Moses is God's law LGW, it includes the ten commandments.
Act 13:39
And by him all that believe are
justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses
LGW, under the Old Covenant you could be justified (declared righteous) if you keep all the law.
Deu 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

#2 rebuttal. Rom 3:20 says
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
How does that agree with your argument?
Rom 3:21¶But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Under the New Covenant, righteousness is without the law, it's by faith.
Rom 3:21 debunks your comments to Rom 3:20.
You can't say that Paul is talking about the law of Moses.
You can't say that the law being is part of the New Covenant.

For those who missed the contradiction. LGW, used Rom 3:20 to say the law has the same role in the New Covenant. Rom 3:21 spells out that the law is not actively part of the new Covenant.
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Here in Rom 4:13 Paul reveals truth, that When God promised Abraham,"in thee all nation shall be blessed." there was no condition or precondition of keeping law. Why was it not through the law? The law came 430ys after the promise.

I really like your "signature"...
Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.

I wish everyone who posts on these forums would read it and pay attention before they write such nonsense about God's Word.

LGW, isn't the fourth commandment one of the glorious commandments Paul called "the ministry of death"? What does Paul write happened to the glorious Ministry of death? He wrote in verse 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Please do not tell us that you answered all that in some other post because I have read those posts and sure enough they contain a lot of scriptural references that did not answer anything I asked. You could have saved your fingers from fatigue.

1JN 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. This is your interpretation "1 JOHN 3:4 and if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments according to the new covenant scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin" Yes, you interpreted the "law" to be the ten commandments. You took what the writer wrote and interpreted it to mean something entirely different. That is a sneaky thing for someone to do. Jesus lept all of the law, Torah and asks us to keep His law of love. His law of love is:
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

LGW, do you have any other Laws that Jesus kept besides the Laws given at Mt Sinai? Jesus sure didn't tell us to keep all those laws. He didn't tell us to keep the ten commandments. He didn't put a "halo" around the fourth commandment now did He? No, that was Ellen.

LoveGodsWord said:

God's Law though (not the Mosiac laws) have the same role they always have had under the new covenant and that is to give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments according to the new covenant scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11.

Click to expand...

How does a person break the Sabbath under the new covenant ?


JLB

pescador said:

I really like your "signature"...
Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.

I wish everyone who posts on these forums would read it and pay attention before they write such nonsense about God's Word.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I totally agree.
What surprises me is; they act as if we can't understand the bible without them teaching us.

Cribstyl said:

You mean well. We'll talk.

Click to expand...

I'd like that very much.

And, again, I realize I'm quite rough around the edges and I apologize for any injury or insult to you.

To be fair, though, there was a time when plain-speaking was not considered knives and swords (I believe you called it, or something similar).

I really feel that folks have become much too sensitive to words. Not that they can't be used to hurt people, but "Sticks And Stones" seems to have become nothing more than the title of a '90s country song.

LoveGodsWord said:

The change of the law from HEBREWS 7 is in reference to the laws of the Levitical Priesthood *DEUTERONOMY 18:1-7; NUMBERS 1:48-53; DEUTERONOMY 10:8; NUMBERS 3:5-10; NUMBERS 8:19; NUMBERS 18:1-7; NUMBERS 8:5-21. Not God's 10 commandments. JESUS is of the Priestly order of Melchisedek which means "KING and PRIEST"

Click to expand...

amen

JLB777 said:

How does a person break the Sabbath under the new covenant ?
JLB

Click to expand...

or... "take God's name in vain" under the "New Covenant"

(I am trying to make it easy for you)

Bob S said:

LGW, isn't the fourth commandment one of the glorious commandments Paul called "the ministry of death"?

Click to expand...

IT was written on stone.. just like

"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
"Honor thy father and mother" Ex 20:12 - which "is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 in that "unit of Ten" that is still included in the moral law of God - instill valid for mankind.

The moral law of God "still" condemned all mankind as sinners - in Romans 3:19-20 even after the cross.

And it is "still" written on the heart and mind' under the NEW Covenant - both in OT and NT - Heb 8:6-12

Bob S said:

EX 20: ...8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Click to expand...

Thank you for quoting the fourth (4th) of the ten (10) commandments for us. It needs the exposure.

Bob S said:

Who are the following verses addressed to LGW?

EX 20: 7 And God spake all these words, saying, 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Hint:
EX 20: 1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Click to expand...

Problem is, verse 2 is plainly meant to identify God, not Israel. I call eisegesis.

Is there any particular reason you have the words of Moses, in verses 1 and 7 (which is actually not verse 7, but verse 1 repeated as being verse 7), highlighted in red? Just curious.

Bob S said:

One thing for sure God never imposed the Sabbath requirement on any other nation or people or if He did He is keeping it to Himself.

Click to expand...

Except for:

Bob S said:

thy stranger that is within thy gates

Click to expand...

in the text of the very fourth--4th commandment (of the ten--10 commandments) itself. Is that how He is keeping it to Himself?

And:
You shall have one law for him that sins [even] through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojournes among them. But the soul that does ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproaches the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Because he has despised the word of the LORD, and has broken His commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be on him.
Numbers 15:29-31

Bob S said:

Who gave you or your church the right to tell us it is a sin not to observe it?

Click to expand...

Scripture did.

Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1 John 3:4

I personally don't represent a church. I'm just reading the Bible plainly here. The church has nothing to do with what the Bible says.

Up until about 1900, virtually no one understood "the law" used here as meaning anything other than the ten (10) commandments, not even the apostle Paul:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet.
Romans 7:7

He's talking about the tenth (10th) of the ten (10) commandments stated here:

You shall not covet your neighbor's house, you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is your neighbor's.
Exodus 20:17 (the tenth--10th of the ten--10 commandments of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

Bob S said:

even our sovereign God has never revealed to us that we have to "keep" it.

Click to expand...

And [our sovereign] God spoke all these words, saying,
Exodus 20:1

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:8 (the fourth--4th of the ten--10 commandments of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit), which you so thoughtfully quoted for us.

And he [Jesus, our sovereign God The Son] said to them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath
Mark 2:27

Jesse Johnson said:

And he [Jesus, our sovereign God The Son] said to them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath
Mark 2:27

Click to expand...

amen to that.

Ex 20:11 and Mark 2:27 all point to Genesis 2:1-3 when God made both mankind and the Sabbath---

And this Bible detail about the Sabbath "for mankind" being setup in Eden for Adam is a detail that almost all Bible scholars admit to ... on both sides of the Sabbath issue.

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all TEN of the Ten Commandments for Christians and in fact for All mankind since Eden.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

BobRyan said:

or... "take God's name in vain" under the "New Covenant"

Click to expand...

How does a person break the Sabbath under the New Covenant?


Gives us an example of what the New Testament describes as breaking the Sabbath, as a sin.




JLB

JLB777 said:

How does a person break the Sabbath under the new covenant ?
JLB

Click to expand...

or... "take God's name in vain" under the "New Covenant"

JLB777 said:

How does a person break the Sabbath under the New Covenant?
Gives us an example of what the New Testament describes as breaking the Sabbath, as a sin.
JLB

Click to expand...

It's the same example that the New Covenant gives to tell us that "taking God's name in vain" is a sin.

Time to take a look at the actual NEW Covenant:

Jer 31:31-34 "THIS IS the NEW COVENANT... I will write My LAW on their heart and mind"

Time for exegesis:

What "LAW" did Jeremiah and his readers know about as being included in the "moral law of God that defines what sin is"???

Answer: it is the one that Paul describes as having the 5th commandment "as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2... well known to Jeremiah and his readers.

JLB777 said:

How does a person break the Sabbath under the New Covenant?

Gives us an example of what the New Testament describes as breaking the Sabbath, as a sin.

Click to expand...

What do these countless repetitive questions and demands have to do with the topic of the OP:
ORIGIN OF THE 7th DAY SABBATH IN CREATION?
You have now posted in this (frankly) annoying way 30 times in this thread alone and no one seems to understand what you're after. You don't seem to have any real interest in the discussion at all. Asking unanswerable questions seems anti-social and almost creepy to me. You might as well be asking: "What do soup kitchens have to do with wax museums?" or just saying: "I've got a secret."

Sabbath-keepers do not require the evidence you specify as necessary to compel them to be obedient to God--Who changes not. How is that so hard to understand? Most of us (especially Seventh-day Adventists) don't see the civil and ceremonial laws as being equal to the ten (10) commandments in purpose, scope, or jurisdiction, regardless of your level of stamina in repeating the term "law of Moses" endlessly. There's nothing impressive or convincing about that whatsoever. If you want your Sabbath-keeping (or omittance thereof) to be completely liberated from the rest of OT Scripture you are of course free to do so. But if you're selling that stuff, don't expect to have many buyers here.

The "new covenant" is not news to God. The true New Covenant is news--good news--to every human being throughout history who--having all been born selfish--finally realize they can never see God without holiness, which will never materialize from the self-righteousness that naturally springs from that selfishness. The true New Covenant is not a stage of history, but a point in human development. We all (if we so desire) move from the Old Covenant (my way) to the New (God's Way, the Truth, and the Life--Thank You, Jesus!). The boiled-down, dehydrated, waterless, washless gospel of dispensationalism that runs rampant in Christendom today is just another -ism of the modern/post-modern, self esteem-obsessed (selfish) world wrapped in pretty gospel paper.

I sure would like to hear your answer to the question from @BobRyan about New Testament instruction on keeping the 3rd commandment. Everyone's quick to point out that there's no explicit command repeated in the New Testament regarding the Sabbath, but neglect to acknowledge that It's silent altogether on the distinctly basic principle of uttering God's name idly. I've posed the question many times over the years and have never gotten a single response. Only silence.

JLB777 said:

The only question is how the Church is to observe the Sabbath today, under the New Covenant.

Click to expand...

The answer is that the New Covenant heart is and always has been the only kind that is capable of keeping the Sabbath properly.

O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Deuteronomy 5:29