Ok, thought you said goodbye? I was wondering if I should respond to this or not as I did not want to go off topic to the op and there is already a Sabbath and Law section within the forum that these things can be discussed elsewhere but then I thought nuh this is a good chance to test the Spirits with the written Word of God to see if a message that is proposed is of God or not not of God with God's MAXIM the Word of God that is the true standard of truth and error. Let's bring everything to the light of God's Word on which we should try and bring our responses back to the OP here of the written Word of God being the final authority and God's standard of all truth and error.
Not all Christians separate the Old Testament into the three compartments of law that Adventists do: moral, ceremonial, and civil. Most do, but not all.
JESUS and the Apostles teach that in the last days there will be many false prophets (messengers) and false teachers showing great signs and wonders that if it were possible they should deceive God's very elect *MATTHEW 24:24; ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 20:29 so it is to God alone we must turn with a prayerful guidence of his Spirit through His written Word to find out what is truth and what is error *JOHN 14:26: JOHN 16:13; HEBREWS 8:11.
This more so today as we see the warnings of JESUS being fulfilled more repidly, wars and romours of wars, pestilance, plague and fimine are all there for all to see. Today false prophets and teachers abound in over 40,000 different denominations of Christianity. Obviously they cannot all be right. Can they? How can you find your way when the road is dark and narrow? There is a way that seems right to a man but the end thereof is death. It is God that makes a separation between his laws as shown through his Word. Happy to share why through the scriptures if your interested as there is a lot of them. Just let me know. The only point I am trying to make here though is that we cannot know what truth and error is if there is no standard for truth and error and God is not our guide and teacher.
I used to be an SDA so I know this is the normal teaching among Adventists. Many groups teach to keep the covenant as one moral whole. For example, the ceremonial laws are moral in that disobeying them is immoral. To keep the covenant one must continue to keep the ceremonial laws. To separate a covenant into moral laws is a man made construction that is not a part of the original covenantal plan. No where, that I am aware of, does the bible make a reference for moral laws to be decided upon and separated from ceremonial or civil laws. The whole covenant is moral.
You have your facts mixed up dear friend. There is no directly translated words from the Hebrew and Greek to english for moral and ceremonial laws. That said the Greek equivallent for ceremonial laws are in ordinances is G1378 δόγμα; dogma which means civil, ceremonial laws or ordinances (Colossians 2:14; EPHESIANS 2:15) or G3544 νομικός; nomikos which means ceremonial law from TITUS 3:5.
While in the Hebrew sometimes the word חקּה; chuqqah is used for ordinances which are normally applied to matters of religious and ceremonial rituals. As for moral the closest is righteousness. In the Hebrew this is H664 RIGHTEOUSNESS; RIGHTEOUS; from צדק; tsedeq (H6663); meaning
the right (natural,
moral or legal; also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity: - X even, (X that which is altogether) just (-ice), ([un-]) right (-eous) (cause, -ly, -ness). This does link into the english definiation of ceremonial laws however as we read from. The Greek is G1342 δίκαιος; dikaios From G1349;
equitable in character or act; by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, meet, right (-eous).
God's Word defines Righteousness or Righteouss as right doing and the moral standard as God's commandments.
PSALMS 119:172 My tongue shall speak of your word for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS <Right Doing - MORAL>
The above definitions all agree with the english definitions for ceremony; ceremonial and moral; right doing as shown below...
WEBSTERS DICTIONARY
MOR'AL, a. [L. moralis, from mos, moris, manner.]
1. Relating to the practice, manners or conduct of men as social beings in relation to each other, and with reference to
right and wrong. The word moral is
applicable to actions that are good or evil, virtuous or vicious, and has
reference to the law of God as the standard by which their character is to be determined. The word however may be applied to actions which affect only, or primarily and principally, a person's own happiness.
Keep at the least within the compass of moral actions, which have in them vice or virtue.
Mankind is broken loose from moral bands.
2. Subject to the
moral law and capable of moral actions; bound to perform social duties; as a moral agent or being.
3. Supported by the evidence of reason or probability; founded on experience of the ordinary course of things; as moral certainty, distinguished from physical or mathematical certainty or demonstration.
Physical and mathematical certainty may be stiled infallible, and moral certainty may be properly stiled indubitable.
Things of a moral nature may be proved by moral arguments.
4. Conformed to rules of right, or to the divine law respecting social duties; virtuous; just; as when we say, a particular action is not moral.
5. Conformed to law and right in exterior deportment; as, he leads a good moral life.
CEREMONIAL, a. [See Ceremony.]
1. Relating to ceremony, or external rite; ritual; according to the forms of established rites; as ceremonial exactness. It is particularly applied to the forms and rites of the Jewish religion; as the ceremonial law or worship,
as distinguished from the moral and judicial law.
2. Formal; observant of old forms; exact; precise in manners.
[In this sense, ceremonious is now used.]
CEREMONIAL, n.
1. Outward form; external rite, or established forms or rites, including all the forms prescribed; a system of rules and ceremonies, enjoined by law or established by custom, whether in religious worship, in social intercourse, or in the courts of princes.
2. The order for rites and forms in the Romish church, or the book containing the rules prescribed to be observed on solemn occasions.
So as can be shown above Gods' LAW (10 commandments) are all Moral laws or according to the scriptures the standard of "RIGHTEOUSNESS" *PSALMS 119:172 and right doing. That is our duty of right doing (righteousness) to God and man.
While ceremonial laws are laws related to outward external religious rites and ceremonies such as the Sanctuary laws for remission of sins and sin offereings, Sanctuary laws and the Levitical priestly laws and ordinances.
On a separate note, if you believe you can do a good job separating what you believe to be moral from the other laws, by what criteria will you make your judgments? I believe you will find the Sabbath, by definition to be a ceremony. Ceremony has the definition on Dictionary.com for example (but basically the same wherever you go): a formal act or ritual, often set by custom or tradition, performed in observation of an event or anniversary: Do you think the formal act of stopping work weekly by tradition to rest and worship in observation of the Sabbath counts? So splitting the law this way undermines the Sabbath anyway. Thus even if we do split the Mosaic Covenant specifically into these sections, the Sabbath fits into the ceremonial law (see here
for a quick summary of why the Sabbath doesn't fit into a moral category).
Well this is a load of nonsense. You have been shown why through the scriptures and word definitions above proving that the 10 commandments are all moral laws of right doing or righteousness according to the scriptures definition *PSALMS 119:172 and the differnece between Moral and Ceremonial laws so do not need to comment much here eccept to say that it is impossible for God's 4th commandment to be a ceremonial law. Here is why.
1. God's 4th commandment is a "MEMORIAL" law it starts of saying...
EXODUS 20:8-11 [8],
REMEMBER the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> [Because JESUS made it a Holy day of rest for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day] [9],
Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the
SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God [This is a direct reference from God's Word defining what the Sabbath is; The SABBATH = the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK]: in it
thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the
SEVENTH DAY:
wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.
Note it is pointing back to creation saying "REMEMBER THE SEVENTH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY". It is pointing back to creation and God as the creator who "BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, and made the SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY of REST where no work is to be done.
2. We have already seen that all God's laws are "MORAL LAWS" of right doing to God and man or according to the scriptures definition the standard of all "RIGHTEOUSNESS" *PSLAMS 119:172 and the scripture definitions and meaning of MORAL and CEREMONIAL law.
Ok saved the best for last. Drum roll pleas...
3. Every ceremonial law from the Mosaic book of the old coveanant *EXODUS 24:7 was made and given to mankind as a part of the old covenant for sin and God's plan of salvation from sin for all mankind. God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH was made
BEFORE SIN and the fall of mankind when ceremonial laws did not exist!
For a final punch, if moral law is eternal, how can God threaten to take something eternally moral, away? Hosea 2:11 (NIV) I will stop all her celebrations: her yearly festivals, her New Moons, her Sabbath days—all her appointed feasts.
This one will be fun and is the easiest but lets see what you know. You do know that there were many difference kinds of Sabbaths in the old covenant right? Since your making the claims here that Hosea 2:11 is saying God's 4th commandment is to be abolished prove to me what Sabbaths are being spoken about in HOSEA 2:11 was it...
1. The Sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *
LEVITICUS 23:6-8
2. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *
LEVITICUS 23:27-32
3. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *
LEVITICUS 23:24-25?
4. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *
LEVITICUS 23:34-36
5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *
LEVITICUS 23:39
6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *
LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
7. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *
LEVITICUS 25:2
8. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *
LEVITICUS 25:9-54
9. Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken? *
EXODUS 20:8-11 from
GENESIS 2:1-3
Also why you at it what does HOSEA 2:11 mean when it says "HER" Sabbaths as opposed to God saying "
MY" Sabbath?
Finally you might want to reconcile your intepretation of HOSEA 2:11 being in reference to God's 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath being no more to
ISAIAH 66:22-23 [22], For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, said the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. [23], And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, said the LORD.
Kind of a few problems with your interpretation of the scriptures dear friend don't you think?
Anyhow for anyone interested HOSEA 2:11 is in refence to the
ceremonial sabbaths in the feast days of ISRAEL (Her sabbaths) which is the within scripture context there is a detailed
scripture response starting here that includes this scripture in the linked thread.
Hope this helps.
