Why did Jewish Christianity die out in the first few centuries of the church?

Quid est Veritas? said:

We should also bear in mind that the Romans became deeply anti-semitic, due to the First Revolt, the Trajanic Revolts, and Bar Kohba's revolt. The Jews were seen as a treacherous fifth column working for Parthia, more often than not. Not only that, they were expected to pay the Fiscus Iudaicus, an additional tax instituted punitively after the First revolt and never repealed due to repeated Jewish revolts thereafter. So a Christian, who had no theological reason to keep themselves Jewish, would benefit financially and socially from abandoning Jewish practice. This is part of the reason for the increasing tendency to differentiate between the two in the early centuries AD.

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It was an illegal religion. There was no benefit to be a Christian, they were persecuted. Taxes were commanded by Christ to be paid so those in Christ would pay them anyway. Paying taxes is nothing compared to being subject to Emperor worship, or death for practicing an illegal religion.

Vanellus said:

I think you may well be right ralliann. The chapter on Jewish Christian mentions the rabbis' 18 Benedictions or birkat hamminim, one version of which damns not only heretics in general but Christians in particular.

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Yes, that is what I was referring to in being kicked out of the synagogues Either go and pronounce a curse on yourself or not go, and be considered an apostate from Judaism.
I think the God fearing Gentiles, later called noachides (Synagogue attending Noachides) also were protected as a class of proselyte. There were several classes of proselytes that were not according to biblical designation by circumcision.
Therefore the council at Jerusalem gave the four prohibitions for Gentiles to do well, and to keep themselves from Idol's.

Vanellus said:

In reply to E.C.'s "why would they need to" i.e. why would "Jewish Christians" need to continue to follow Jewish laws - well that is how this chapter in the Cambridge History of Christianity defines "Jewish Christians" on the basis it is simpler and clearer to define such a group by its praxis rather than birth.

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Claudius expelled rebellious Jews from Rome near the middle of the first century.

During the reign of Vespasian the Jews in Israel rebelled. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus recorded the rebellion of 66-70 AD. The army of the Roman emperor Vespasian began to kill a great number of the rebels as they moved from the north to the south. The Jewish males of those days were required to attend the Passover in Jerusalem as was required in the Torah and Talmud. Once the Jews had entered the vicinity of Jerusalem for their required Passover, the Roman army surrounded the city and blocked its exits. The Jews did not surrender. They died of starvation and in battle. The Romans had catapults, siege ramps and battering rams. After months of battle the wall was breached, the city was burned, the Temple was destroyed and the remaining people of Jerusalem were killed or taken as slaves.

After the Bar Kochba rebellion Jews were no longer allowed to live in Jerusalem. The Sanhedrin was relocated in Galilee.

Christians also suffered under the Romans as Christianity was not legal until the times of Constantine as recorded by the Christian historian Eusebius.

Jewish Christians were in danger from both Jews and Romans. There are Messianic (Christian) Jews in America, Israel and elsewhere.

Quid est Veritas? said:

We should also bear in mind that the Romans became deeply anti-semitic, due to the First Revolt,

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You must be speaking of when the temple was destroyed? If so, you probably should read Rabbinic history on this. It was after this that Rome gave authority to the Sanhedrin and gave then Yavneh to be their center. The anti-semtism at that time was against the priesthood, the Sadducees along with other sects killing each other in the city. More Jews killed other Jews than Rome did. It was the rebels inside the city that would not let anyone out. It was three waring factions within the city, a civil war. These are they which kept the people trapped inside the city. One of the leaders purposely destroyed the food supply to starve out the other two factions. Problem was it took too long to dig out before this faction itself ran out of food. The Romans didn't starve and kill the majority, it was factions within the city.
They are still blamed today. The Rabbis will admit they usurped the authority of the priesthood.
Anti-semtism may have grown from there as more false Messiahs were proclaimed despite the Sadducees losing any influence so the Romans began to get wise that it was not just other sects apart from the Pharisees.

dqhall said:

Claudius expelled rebellious Jews from Rome near the middle of the first century.

During the reign of Vespasian the Jews in Israel rebelled. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus recorded the rebellion of 66-70 AD. The army of the Roman emperor Vespasian began to kill a great number of the rebels as they moved from the north to the south. The Jewish males of those days were required to attend the Passover in Jerusalem as was required in the Torah and Talmud. Once the Jews had entered the vicinity of Jerusalem for their required Passover, the Roman army surrounded the city and blocked its exits. The Jews did not surrender. They died of starvation and in battle. The Romans had catapults, siege ramps and battering rams. After months of battle the wall was breached, the city was burned, the Temple was destroyed and the remaining people of Jerusalem were killed or taken as slaves.

After the Bar Kochba rebellion Jews were no longer allowed to live in Jerusalem. The Sanhedrin was relocated in Galilee.

Christians also suffered under the Romans as Christianity was not legal until the times of Constantine as recorded by the Christian historian Eusebius.

Jewish Christians were in danger from both Jews and Romans. There are Messianic (Christian) Jews in America, Israel and elsewhere.

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You should read the rabbinic account. Rabbi Telushkin tells about How Rabbi Zakki escaped the city and prophesied concerning the new Emporor and it came to pass. So the Emperor granted him Yavneh to rule a new Sanhedrin. Thuis Judaism was saved and their traditions (oral law) were then put in written form (Talmud)
Funny that this account in other sources (I think Josephus himself) is attributed to Josephus whom they consider a traitor.

Vanellus said:

This question was prompted by reading the first part (up to Constantine) of The Cambridge History of Christianity. In a chapter on Jewish Christianity, the author defines this as Christians who observed Jewish rites such as circumcision or food laws. He gives the following possible reasons for the demise of Jewish Christianity:

1. The two abortive Jewish rebellions against the Romans
2. The consequential rise in power of the rabbis
3. The message that Gentile converts to Christianity didn't have to observe Jewish laws

The author notes that the refuter of heresy, Irenaeus, spends far more time refuting Gnosticism than "Judaizers" that figure so much in the New Testament polemics. This is evidence for the early demise of Jewish Christianity.

The author then argues this became a tragedy for the Jews (and Christians?) leading to the well known "bloody history of ecclesiastical anti-Semitism".

There are Jewish Christians today but sadly they are few in number, especially in Israel.

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My reading of the NT shows a pattern of the Jews persecuting Jewish christians mercilessly. No christians prosecuted any Jew during these decades. We ought to keep this in mind.

Jesus says the kingdom of God would be taken away from the Jewish people. It stands to reason that his people, that is, God’s people would no longer be found in the Jewish practice of religion.

It all seems to be inevitable.

On a side note, does anyone else find it odd that only the Jews have a word for prejudice against their group? If one is prejudiced against caucasians or asians or blacks or eskimos or Italians or freckle-faced redheads, there’s no word to describe this trait. The prejudice against another race than one’s own ought to be as deplorable no matter what the race is but for some reason the word describing this aweful view against the Jews is awarded its own special word. I think that’s odd.

Dorothy Mae said:

My reading of the NT shows a pattern of the Jews persecuting Jewish christians mercilessly. No christians prosecuted any Jew during these decades. We ought to keep this in mind.

Jesus says the kingdom of God would be taken away from the Jewish people. It stands to reason that his people, that is, God’s people would no longer be found in the Jewish practice of religion.

It all seems to be inevitable.

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What you say is true. That however is no excuse for the horrors of anti Semitism of recent history. It is just not good to try to rewrite history either prior to those horrors.

ralliann said:

What you say is true. That however is no excuse for the horrors of anti Semitism of recent history. It is just not good to try to rewrite history either prior to those horrors.

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I guess I think the horrors against the black race in places equally bad if not worse.

I think acknowledgment of the truth is better than rewriting the whole history based on the problems of recent decades.

Ever been to Israel? Christians there have to be careful.

ralliann said:

It was an illegal religion. There was no benefit to be a Christian, they were persecuted. Taxes were commanded by Christ to be paid so those in Christ would pay them anyway. Paying taxes is nothing compared to being subject to Emperor worship, or death for practicing an illegal religion.

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If someone abjured Jewishness, they would not need to pay the Fiscus Iudaicus; and the Roman persecution of Christianity was sporadic, not sustained. I stand by my statements.

Quid est Veritas? said:

If someone abjured Jewishness, they would not need to pay the Fiscus Iudaicus; and the Roman persecution of Christianity was sporadic, not sustained. I stand by my statements.

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I stand by the fact that Jesus commanded taxes to be paid anyway. Someone joining any religion to get out of it would be disobedient to that command. Burning Christians at the stake is no small thing. you could say the same of Jews, it was sporadic as well. It was no different than when Constantine legalized Christianity. Lots became Christian simply for the clout, and later when it became the preferred religion to prosper from it.

OldWiseGuy said:

Jesus didn't then and hasn't now any credentials or office in the Aaronic/Levitical priesthood. There is little or no Jewish religious influence in the new covenant church.

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Because no one puts new wine into old wineskins.

Dorothy Mae said:

I guess I think the horrors against the black race in places equally bad if not worse.

I think acknowledgment of the truth is better than rewriting the whole history based on the problems of recent decades.

Ever been to Israel? Christians there have to be careful.

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No I have never been.

ralliann said:

No I have never been.

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You would be surprised at the racial
prejudice against those not if their religion/race. Christians need to take care.

dqhall said:

Claudius expelled rebellious Jews from Rome near the middle of the first century.

During the reign of Vespasian the Jews in Israel rebelled. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus recorded the rebellion of 66-70 AD. The army of the Roman emperor Vespasian began to kill a great number of the rebels as they moved from the north to the south. The Jewish males of those days were required to attend the Passover in Jerusalem as was required in the Torah and Talmud. Once the Jews had entered the vicinity of Jerusalem for their required Passover, the Roman army surrounded the city and blocked its exits.

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Not exactly correct here. It was the rebels hold up in the city that would not let anyone leave or surrender. It was the rebels which set the food store on fire. one group of rebels thought they could outlast the other groups in the city. They were wrong. Look up simon ben Giora.

dqhall said:

The Jews did not surrender. They died of starvation and in battle.

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Yep starvation because of the faction which burned the food store and the civil war going on inside.

dqhall said:

The Romans had catapults, siege ramps and battering rams.

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Yep

dqhall said:

After months of battle

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Yeah the vast majority of which went on inside the city itself. The Romans just waited it out. Josephus pleaded with them to surrender from outside with the Roman army.

dqhall said:

the wall was breached, the city was burned, the Temple was destroyed and the remaining people of Jerusalem were killed or taken as slaves.

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Yep. Not a whole lot remaining from the slaughter that went on inside the city.
From wiki
"Just before Passover in 70, Titus began the siege of Jerusalem. He quickly took down the first and second wall, but then met fierce resistance[13] as the rebel Judean factions within Jerusalem realized the necessity of joining forces.[19] However, Simon and John both upheld their reigns of terror over the citizens, causing many to flee to the Romans. To counteract these desertions, Simon put every potential betrayer, including some of his previous friends, to death.[13] In August 70, five months after the siege began, Jerusalem fell to Titus. Simon escaped into the subterranean passages of the Temple Mount. By means of stone cutters he tried to dig a way to freedom, but ran out of food before he could finish. Clothed in the garments of a Judean king he rose out of the ground at the very spot where the Temple had stood,[20] was taken prisoner and brought to Rome."[21][22]

Vanellus said:

This question was prompted by reading the first part (up to Constantine) of The Cambridge History of Christianity. In a chapter on Jewish Christianity, the author defines this as Christians who observed Jewish rites such as circumcision or food laws. He gives the following possible reasons for the demise of Jewish Christianity:

1. The two abortive Jewish rebellions against the Romans
2. The consequential rise in power of the rabbis
3. The message that Gentile converts to Christianity didn't have to observe Jewish laws

The author notes that the refuter of heresy, Irenaeus, spends far more time refuting Gnosticism than "Judaizers" that figure so much in the New Testament polemics. This is evidence for the early demise of Jewish Christianity.

The author then argues this became a tragedy for the Jews (and Christians?) leading to the well known "bloody history of ecclesiastical anti-Semitism".

There are Jewish Christians today but sadly they are few in number, especially in Israel.

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I find your question intriguing and hope it is your desire, as is mine, for meaningful study and interaction regarding this subject. Please permit me your patience for just one moment if you would, as we examine how deep this little puddle you have posted, may reach.

Your post brings up several very important aspects of Scripture which have appeared to escape the notice of nearly the entirety of humanity.

I don't mean to appear to overly simplify, and it is not my intent to appear to insult your intelligence when I try to relate these things to explore the question, but one must start somewhere.

So the question as to why there are so few "Jewish Christians" can be explained in one verse of Scripture.
Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Definition of WORLD
WORLD : the inhabitants of the earth : the human race

Definition of WHOLE
WHOLE : complete or full : not lacking or leaving out any part

Definition of DECEIVED
DECEIVED : to cause to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid


What is the most interesting point of this verse is that, in the human mind, IN THIS WORLD, this verse applies to every human, but themselves.

Back to the question;
If one studies written Scripture without the encumbrance of embracing human dogma or tradition, one will find that the "Jewish religion" and what we know as the "Christian religion" can never describe the "true servants", the "chosen people" of God.

Even without the overwhelming supporting historical evidence regarding the apostasy of these two religions, if the Scriptures ARE TRUTH, both MUST be excluded simply based upon the truth that;

-Both "religions" are a RECOGNIZED and ACCEPTED "part of human society".


Again, if one studies written Scripture without the encumbrance of embracing human dogma, denominational explanations or tradition, one will find that from Genesis to Revelation;

-ALL of the PROMISES and COVENANTS contained within Scripture were BESTOWED SOLELY UPON the HEBREWS. (Abraham; a Hebrew /12 Sons of Jacob/Israel; Hebrews(not Jews) /Moses; a Hebrew)
-God HIMSELF has never PERSONALLY declared himself TO BE the GOD OF ANY OTHER PEOPLE, than THE HEBREWS

Genesis 14
13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.

Exodus 2
11 And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

Exodus 9
1 Then the Lord said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh, and tell him, Thus saith the Lord God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.

13 And the Lord said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.


Therefore, the term Jewish Christianity would appear to better be described as "Hebrew Christianity".

Please understand I am not trying to find fault or split hairs, but if we truly hope to attain the salvation granted unto God's chosen people, accurate terminology in our examination of this question may serve to benefit those that truly fear God, and seek greater understanding.

So I suppose the question to ask now is;
What would be a "Hebrew Christian"?

May God bless,
Lee

Lee Stuvmen said:

I find your question intriguing and hope it is your desire, as is mine, for meaningful study and interaction regarding this subject. Please permit me your patience for just one moment if you would, as we examine how deep this little puddle you have posted, may reach.

Your post brings up several very important aspects of Scripture which have appeared to escape the notice of nearly the entirety of humanity.

I don't mean to appear to overly simplify, and it is not my intent to appear to insult your intelligence when I try to relate these things to explore the question, but one must start somewhere.

So the question as to why there are so few "Jewish Christians" can be explained in one verse of Scripture.
Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Definition of WORLD
WORLD : the inhabitants of the earth : the human race

Definition of WHOLE
WHOLE : complete or full : not lacking or leaving out any part

Definition of DECEIVED
DECEIVED : to cause to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid


What is the most interesting point of this verse is that, in the human mind, IN THIS WORLD, this verse applies to every human, but themselves.

Back to the question;
If one studies written Scripture without the encumbrance of embracing human dogma or tradition, one will find that the "Jewish religion" and what we know as the "Christian religion" can never describe the "true servants", the "chosen people" of God.

Even without the overwhelming supporting historical evidence regarding the apostasy of these two religions, if the Scriptures ARE TRUTH, both MUST be excluded simply based upon the truth that;

-Both "religions" are a RECOGNIZED and ACCEPTED "part of human society".


Again, if one studies written Scripture without the encumbrance of embracing human dogma, denominational explanations or tradition, one will find that from Genesis to Revelation;

-ALL of the PROMISES and COVENANTS contained within Scripture were BESTOWED SOLELY UPON the HEBREWS. (Abraham; a Hebrew /12 Sons of Jacob/Israel; Hebrews(not Jews) /Moses; a Hebrew)
-God HIMSELF has never PERSONALLY declared himself TO BE the GOD OF ANY OTHER PEOPLE, than THE HEBREWS

Genesis 14
13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.

Exodus 2
11 And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

Exodus 9
1 Then the Lord said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh, and tell him, Thus saith the Lord God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.

13 And the Lord said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.


Therefore, the term Jewish Christianity would appear to better be described as "Hebrew Christianity".

Please understand I am not trying to find fault or split hairs, but if we truly hope to attain the salvation granted unto God's chosen people, accurate terminology in our examination of this question may serve to benefit those that truly fear God, and seek greater understanding.

So I suppose the question to ask now is;
What would be a "Hebrew Christian"?

May God bless,
Lee

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True. Jesus was "sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel", the non-Jewish tribes of the northern kingdom. He instructed the disciples to do likewise. The Christian nations today are largely the descendants of those tribes.

OldWiseGuy said:

True. Jesus was "sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel", the non-Jewish tribes of the northern kingdom. He instructed the disciples to do likewise. The Christian nations today are largely the descendants of those tribes.

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How can the house of Israel be non-Jewish?