Voluntary Sin

HARK!

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JSM83

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How is it reconciled?

I heard an answer.

sin isn’t what you do.

The sin is the black hole (void) inside you in the first place. We all have it.

The black hole ought to be where God is within you. When you from time to time unwittingly move God out - the void is left - this void is sin.

Out of this void comes all the bad stuff.

Move God back in. Prayer - contemplate on His love - just feel it, be in it.

A thought - maybe wrong but maybe helpful.
 
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savedthroughgrace

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What do those verses mean to you?
I have always understood the verses in your OP to mean continuing in unrepentant sin. So to answer my own question...
If a Christian commits sin, any sin, the Holy Spirit is able to chastise, bringing the believer to a place of true repentance from that sin. Hence, sinning as a Christian does not bar one from eternal life, AS LONG AS the person confesses that such things are sin, repents, and asks for forgiveness.

Matthew 18:15-20
15 “If your brother or sister sins,go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

1 Corinthians 5
1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife. 2And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
3For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 4When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

These two verses show that there can be sin in a brother or sister and it does not cause a permanent loss of salvation. What do you think?
 
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theoneandonlypencil

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Good, and good. Who told you what the scripture in the OP means?

I'm not talking about the scripture in this thread, actually. But in other threads, you have indeed projected a meaning onto passages/verses taken from scripture and sometimes have even outright said things to the effect of 'no, that's not what it means' and/or 'how could you come to such a conclusion?'.
 
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HARK!

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If one is unequally yoked to an unbeliever he/she could be in danger of falling away.
It could happen; but I already said that I understood this principle as a nation, and in a marriage. The most important part is what this is supposed to represent in our relationship with YHWH.

t's been said that if you put a drunk together with a non-drinker you will eventually have two drunks.

I reject that supposition. Some people are disgusted by drunkenness.
 
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HARK!

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I have always understood the verses in your OP to mean continuing in unrepentant sin. So to answer my own question...
If a Christian commits sin, any sin, the Holy Spirit is able to chastise, bringing the believer to a place of true repentance from that sin. Hence, sinning as a Christian does not bar one from eternal life, AS LONG AS the person confesses that such things are sin, repents, and asks for forgiveness.

So considering that it is no longer leaving a sacrifice; how do you suppose sin, ex post facto, will be reconciled? That is the question.
 
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savedthroughgrace

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So considering that it is no longer leaving a sacrifice; how do you suppose sin, ex post facto, will be reconciled? That is the question.
In the context of Hebrews being written to... *Gasp*....Hebrews...lol
Knowing the truth about Christ's sacrifice and continuing to sin leaves no sacrifice until Jews acknowledge that the sacrifice is Christ. They can no longer use their sacrifices to cover for their sin. Only Christ.
 
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theoneandonlypencil

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Well actually that is actually what we are actually discussing here actually.

Do you always use the word 'actually' that much, or is that supposed to be aimed at me?

As always, you cut out everything else I said so you don't have to answer it. Typical.
 
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HARK!

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I heard an answer.

sin isn’t what you do.

The sin is the black hole (void) inside you in the first place. We all have it.

The black hole ought to be where God is within you. When you from time to time unwittingly move God out - the void is left - this void is sin.

Out of this void comes all the bad stuff.

Move God back in. Prayer - contemplate on His love - just feel it, be in it.

A thought - maybe wrong but maybe helpful.

Somehow you really messed up that quote.

Anyway, Sin is transgression of the law. So it is written.

Darkness is however absence of light.

I appreciate your input. Welcome to CF!
 
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HARK!

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In the context of Hebrews being written to... *Gasp*....Hebrews...lol
Knowing the truth about Christ's sacrifice and continuing to sin leaves no sacrifice until Jews acknowledge that the sacrifice is Christ. They can no longer use their sacrifices to cover for their sin. Only Christ.

If that was the case; why did the Apostles continue to make sacrifices? Why even bring up voluntary sin if that's the case?
 
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savedthroughgrace

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If that was the case; why did the Apostles continue to make sacrifices? Why even bring up voluntary sin if that's the case?
You will have to direct me to the Apostles sacrifices because I can't recall when that happened post Christ's death and resurrection. I'm sorry. Because I believe they would sin and expect the sacrifices to cover this sin. But to be honest this is just speculation and would still love your viewpoint.
 
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HARK!

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You will have to direct me to the Apostles sacrifices because I can't recall when that happened post Christ's death and resurrection. I'm sorry. Because I believe they would sin and expect the sacrifices to cover this sin. But to be honest this is just speculation and would still love your viewpoint.

There are numerous cases of the Apostles keeping the Moedim (feasts) after Yahshua had ascended. Part of keeping these Moedim involved sacrifice. Also, Paul not only made a sacrifice for the Nazirite Vow, but paid for the sacrifices for others, at the direction of James, to prove to everyone that Paul was obedient to Torah. The Moedim and sacrifices and Levitical priesthood will all be honored in the Kingdom to come.
 
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savedthroughgrace

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There are numerous cases of the Apostles keeping the Moedim (feasts) after Yahshua had ascended. Part of keeping these Moedim involved sacrifice. Also, Paul not only made a sacrifice for the Nazirite Vow, but paid for the sacrifices for others, at the direction of James, to prove to everyone that Paul was obedient to Torah. The Moedim and sacrifices and Levitical priesthood will all be honored in the Kingdom to come.
Very interesting. I believe the Levitical priesthood and sacrifices will be attempted in this age by Jews and the Kingdom to come will be ruled by Christ who is the only sacrifice for all sins. Which appears to be what the book of Hebrews is mostly about. Explaining to the Hebrews that animal sacrifices are no longer sufficient and requires Christ as the only perfect sacrifice. Seems to me that traditions of OT nature are and will be no loner necessary. These ideas though, I'm sure are for another controversial thread.
As to this thread, all I can say is I cannot ignore other scripture about confessing, repenting, and forgiveness due to one concerning verse. I believe the entire Bible is true and God inspired, but I do not believe we all have the interpretation correct. Praise the Lord that the gospel remains.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Yahshua reconciles willful sin as one tramples his blood?

Please explain.
I guess you do not quite understand what Jesus Christ of Nazareth did on the cross. If I have to explain, then you are missing the whole point of God giving His only Beloved Son to Mankind. When you decide to Walk with His Holy Spirit instead of "the law", then you will know what I am talking about.
Be blessed and stay healthy.
 
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renniks

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Messiah wasn't even born when that happened. Try again.
When what happened? You quoted:
CLV) 1Jn 3:9
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.

What do you mean, the Messiah wasn't born yet?
 
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eleos1954

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How is it reconciled?



(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother who sins against me? Up to seven times?”22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not just seven times, but seventy-seven times!e

How is it (sin) reconciled?

THROUGH JESUS! Amen.

2 Corinthians 5:18-21

All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Romans 5:10

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life

Colossians 1:20-22

And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,

Romans 5:6-11

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. ...

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Philippians 1:6

New Living Translation
And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.
 
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