Trump pressures mayor to reverse ban on drive up churches

createdtoworship

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Speaking as a Christian myself, I'm curious to know why Christians should expect to be treated better than their fellow citizens who aren't Christians. Are Christians rightfully entitled to special treatment from the government? The federal government shouldn't endorse or promote Christianity of any kind over all other religions in this country. The duties of our government leaders, including the President, doesn't include promoting and endorsing any sect of Christianity (including Evangelical).

The U.S. government is the “Government of the people, by the people, for the people." It isn't the "Government of the Republicans, by the Republicans, for the Republicans" or more accurately, it isn't the "Government of Trump, by Trump, and only for Trump's conservative Christian supporters."
uuuuuum this is sort of a topic for another thread. I mean go ahead and talk about it, but it's not really talking about what the OP is which is regarding the freedom of religion. Your talking about one religion usurping over another, which is not really about freedom of religion at all.
 
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Desk trauma

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so then you do believe it's ok to reject a candidate on the basis of his or her religion.

If they hold religious views that run counter to the duty they are looking to undertake it's reasonable to ask questions about it like was done. Like a Quaker being appointed for a military post, Jehovahs Witness being appointed to a post where they have sway over the use of blood products etc.
 
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comana

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so you admit, you held to a view I posted. Then the accusation that it was a strawman is false!
No, your straw man is defined by all of its parts. You don't get to redefine it as sorta-maybe-if-you-tilt-your-head-to -the-left-while-squinting then it looks close enough.
 
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Desk trauma

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sir I don't think I even used two things in a comparison on this thread at all.

I'm sorry that you cannot see it. Your posts that say one is either for state suppression of religion or state endorsement of religion with no other options is a text book example of it.
 
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GACfan

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I'm hoping it was just an omission on your part. How about those of us with nom religion? Do Christians deserve to be treated better than us? Or are we the new Samaritans?

I thought I had specified that particular point. I did say citizens who aren't Christians. I decide to edit my post anyway in an effort to clarify what I wrote. I apologize for the misunderstanding, Keith.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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It is only a matter of time before some here claim that it is the Jews' fault that we can't legislate any sanitation laws. After all they (your forefathers) made sanitation part of their religious laws!

It would seem that Jesus freed the Christians from washing before they eat.



Matthew 15:2

"Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"

Mark 7:5

And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with defiled hands?”

Luke 11:38

The Pharisee was astonished to see that he did not first wash before dinner.
 
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keith99

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I thought I had specified that particular point. I did say citizens who aren't Christians. I decide to edit my post anyway in an effort to clarify what I wrote. I apologize for the misunderstanding, Keith.

I was well over 90% certain you meant to include those without any religion. But I wanted to be sure and if I was correct I wanted to give you the chance to make it quite clear to everyone.
 
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keith99

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It would seem that Jesus freed the Christians from washing before they eat.



Matthew 15:2

"Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"

Mark 7:5

And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with defiled hands?”

Luke 11:38

The Pharisee was astonished to see that he did not first wash before dinner.

Not unlike some who think washing and other measures against disease are not needed.

One has to wonder why the Son of God would make a statement that would encourage people to do something that could spread disease when the same God had commanded the contrary practice to prevent teh spread of disease.
 
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Pommer

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But the constitutional first ammendment did two things, it protects freedom of religion but it also restricts religion from being legislated. So it's a catch 22. Before the bill of rights, religion COULD BE LEGISLATED! Things like....don't kill, don't steal, don't sleep with the neighbors wife, don't steal your neighbors chainsaw, could become law. But now they can't.

We, the people, can codify anything we wish into Law, so long as said law has a “rational basis” (beyond, “God said this is a Bad Thing”). Such a law must also keep kosher with the rest of the Constitution. That a law might coincide with a religious tenet is just happenstance.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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Not unlike some who think washing and other measures against disease are not needed.

One has to wonder why the Son of God would make a statement that would encourage people to do something that could spread disease when the same God had commanded the contrary practice to prevent teh spread of disease.

Well, on one hand a person can do mental gymnastics to make the two instructions seem to come from the same source and on the other hand, a person can just realize that they are two very different religions with very little in common.
 
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createdtoworship

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If they hold religious views that run counter to the duty they are looking to undertake it's reasonable to ask questions about it like was done. Like a Quaker being appointed for a military post, Jehovahs Witness being appointed to a post where they have sway over the use of blood products etc.
no you don't get to say they were wrong, and then when I ask for legal punishment you say....oh 'well not that wrong.' And then I call you out on it and then you back peddle and say they were not really wrong after all. I hope you see what you did here, and don't do it again.

When something is already happening, inaction is, by default, support of the action happening.

if bernie was wrong to call out the man's christian faith, if feinstein was wrong to say that she was biased simply because she was catholic, then act like it.

but don't pretend to believe in the first ammendment, if you don't think religion deserves protection.
 
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createdtoworship

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I'm sorry that you cannot see it. Your posts that say one is either for state suppression of religion or state endorsement of religion with no other options is a text book example of it.

ok so when I say do you like coke over pepsi, it's a yes or no answer sir. There is no third option. I guess you can abstain with 'I don't know.' which is not an answer to the question, the question was specifically do you like coke over pepsi. If you do, then fine. If you don't thats ok too. If you like them both, then you don't like coke over pepsi. Again it's yes or no sir. No third option.
 
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createdtoworship

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We, the people, can codify anything we wish into Law, so long as said law has a “rational basis” (beyond, “God said this is a Bad Thing”). Such a law must also keep kosher with the rest of the Constitution. That a law might coincide with a religious tenet is just happenstance.
Can you reword this sir, I am not sure I understand what you are specifically trying to say here.
 
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Pommer

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Can you reword this sir, I am not sure I understand what you are specifically trying to say here.
We can make murder a crime by passing a bill that says that the killing of another human being will not be tolerated.
So, okay, the Bible also has admonitions against the wrongful death of a human being, but so long as the basis for the law is not solely because “the Bible says ‘its bad’” then the Law can pass Constitutional muster.
 
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Desk trauma

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ok so when I say do you like coke over pepsi, it's a yes or no answer sir. There is no third option. I guess you can abstain with 'I don't know.' which is not an answer to the question, the question was specifically do you like coke over pepsi. If you do, then fine. If you don't thats ok too. If you like them both, then you don't like coke over pepsi. Again it's yes or no sir. No third option.

Yet there are multiple stances one can take on government involvement in religion. It’s a bit more complicated and important than preference for a specific type of diabetes juice.
 
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createdtoworship

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Yet there are multiple stances one can take on government involvement in religion. It’s a bit more complicated and important than preference for a specific type of diabetes juice.
ok then provide the third alternative
 
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Kentonio

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no sir, most atheists believe that because they believe their is no evidence of God that they don't have a particular viewpoint to defend. So it's a stronger position to defend, simply from making no positive assertions.

Have you ever actually met an atheist?
 
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Seems to me, the city mayor simply made a mistake.

Maybe he just thought it was a weird idea and couldn't understand why sitting in a parked car was considered a sensible replacement for attending a church. Or maybe that's just me..
 
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