One Law, One Custom, Forever

DamianWarS · Apr 19, 2020

Der Alter said:
You are correct. Some people who rely on Strong's don't realize that the correct meaning of a word is not determined by some form of eeny, meeniy, miney, moe from the list in Strong's but depends on tense, voice, mood etc.
• Online Bible FAQ
Q:The Online Bible Strongs is not the same as my Exhaustive Strong’s Concordance. Why is that?
A: We used the Strong's system but the actual Greek and Hebrew to implement the numbers. By doing this we corrected about 15000 errors in the Strong's concordance.
Frequently Asked Questions - Online Bible Then click “The Online Bible Strongs is not the same as my Exhaustive Strong’s concordance.”
• Rebuilding Strong’s time-honored concordance from the ground up, biblical research experts John Kohlenberger and James Swanson have achieved unprecedented accuracy and clarity. Longstanding errors have been corrected. Omissions filled in. Word studies simplified. Thoroughness and ease of use have been united and maximized.
Zondervan Publishing the Strongest Strong’s.
Book Details - Zondervan
Strongest Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, The: 21st Century Edition
Links to BDB, Hebrew, and BAGD, Greek lexicons online.
Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew-English Lexicon to the Old Testament : Francis Brown : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, Gingrich & Danker

I use biblehub which shows you the inflections present in the words it also is helpful to compare a lot of translations at once. Blueletterbible is getting more transparent with inflections where it formally was just a glorified strong's concordance but it still could use work. (None of these use the CLV which seems to be a obscure version)

Biblehub however may say a word is a masculine plural nomative noun it however doesn't show you what parts of the word make it this way. You can figure it out because your armed with the right information but it takes further study. So I still think something that can break down to the morphology level of the words would be helpful even on a search level so you can compare the same inflections on different words to understand their relationships are with the meanings and context. It would take a lot of work as each word would have to be analysed but the technology is there plus the expertise (greek/hebrew experts can tell you where the are in the words with ease) and it would give a wider understanding of the words in context for those who don't know Greek or Hebrew.

Der Alte · Apr 19, 2020

DamianWarS said:
I use biblehub which shows you the inflections present in the words it also is helpful to compare a lot of translations at once. Blueletterbible is getting more transparent with inflections where it formally was just a glorified strong's concordance but it still could use work. (None of these use the CLV which seems to be a obscure version)

Biblehub however may say a word is a masculine plural nomative noun it however doesn't show you what parts of the word make it this way. You can figure it out because your armed with the right information but it takes further study. So I still think something that can break down to the morphology level of the words would be helpful even on a search level so you can compare the same inflections on different words to understand their relationships are with the meanings and context. It would take a lot of work as each word would have to be analysed but the technology is there plus the expertise (greek/hebrew experts can tell you where the are in the words with ease) and it would give a wider understanding of the words in context for those who don't know Greek or Hebrew.

I use ESword free online Bible program. It has a lot of Bibles. I have 19 on my laptop. It has a Brown Driver Briggs Hebrew also LSJ classical Greek module. BDB can also be D/L at internet archives. ESword does not have BDAG Greek .

HARK! · Apr 19, 2020

Der Alter said:
That is nonsense and most people who make that argument don't even know why. Jeshua and Joshua were both transliterated Iesous in the 225 BC LXX by Jewish scholars. Do you think Jewish scholars would put a pagan deity's name in the name of one of their heroes, Joshua?

How do you express Shin in Greek?

HARK! · Apr 19, 2020

DamianWarS said:
tense, gender, person etc

All of this is expressed in the prefixes and suffixes. There really isn't much room for confusion.

Der Alte · Apr 19, 2020

HARK! said:
How do you express Shin in Greek?

What is your point? Greek does not have a letter similar to shin.

HARK! · Apr 19, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
The Gospel of John, the I AM Gospel.
I Am>Hayah>Greek eimi .(not ego)
John 4:26. Saying unto her, Yahushua me I AM that speaks unto you.
John 6:20. And He said unto them me I AM, not to be afraid.
John 6:48. I, I AM that bread of Life.
John 7:29. I, and I know Him, for from Him I AM and He has sent me.
John 8:12. Again then Yahushua unto them spoke I AM the light of the world.
John 8:16. Yet whatever separated and my judgment my true is for alone not
I AM but I and sent me the Father.
John 8:18. Me I AM bear witness of myself and bearing witness of me sent me the Father.
John 8:23. And He said unto them you from beneath are I from above I AM you of this world are I not I AM of this world.
John 8:24. Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I Am you will die in your sins.
John 8:28. Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I AM and I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
John 8:58. Jesus said to them, Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.
John 9:5. As long as I am in the world, I AM the light of the world.
John 10:7. Then Jesus said to them again, Most assuredly, I say to you, I AM the door of the sheep.
John 10:11. I AM the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
John 10:36. Do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I AM the Son of God’?
John 11:25. Jesus said to her, I AM the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.
John 13:13. You call Me Teacher and Lord, and you say well, for so I AM.
John 13:19. Now I tell you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe that I AM.
John 14:6. Jesus said to him, I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 15:1. I AM the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
John 18:6. Now when He said to them, I AM they drew back and fell to the ground.
Here is the power of THAT NAME. They asked for Yahushua of Nazareth as it were a common name. When He answered I AM, they had to fall on their face.
So why is power in the I AM? Because this speaks of the Divine Presence. When Yahushua exhaled I AM, the spirit in the man has to bow before the very presence of God. You can write a 500 page textbook on Hebrew and Greek alphabet and common personal names, but this is not to KNOW HIM. You do not want Him to say to you, 'Away with you, for I never knew you'. He is known in the Sanctuary, the secret place, 'the prayer closet'. Then you will come to know His Name. It will be IN you and you will manifest Him, and He will be glorified.

Oh my! I AM writing to you; but don't get the wrong idea, by reading into what isn't there; and it's not a name.

HARK! · Apr 19, 2020

Der Alter said:
What is your point? Greek does not have a letter similar to shin.

Exactly, so the name Yahshua cannot truly be expressed in Greek. It can however be fully expressed in Hebrew.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Apr 19, 2020

HARK! said:
Exactly, so the name Yahshua cannot truly be expressed in Greek. It can however be fully expressed in Hebrew.

Then why did the writers of the New Testament feel it fit to express the name in Greek?

HARK! · Apr 19, 2020

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Then why did the writers of the New Testament feel it fit to express the name in Greek?

Why would you conclude that it was written in Greek? Did you find the autographs?

Ignatius the Kiwi · Apr 19, 2020

HARK! said:
Why would you conclude that it was written in Greek? Did you find the autographs?

Because I have no reason as to suppose otherwise. A majority of our earliest texts of the New Testament are Greek. The texts of the New Testament use Greek words and concepts along with Jewish ones. Also historically it makes sense to write in a language that the majority of people could read or understand at the time (given Hellenization). We also know that unlike modern day judaisers who are obsessed with hebrew that ancient Jews didn't really have a problem writing in Greek and that there is a lot of Greek literature written by Jews.

So why were the Apostles wrong to use the word Iesous of their Lord?

HARK! · Apr 19, 2020

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Because I have no reason as to suppose otherwise. A majority of our earliest texts of the New Testament are Greek. The texts of the New Testament use Greek words and concepts along with Jewish ones. Also historically it makes sense to write in a language that the majority of people could read or understand at the time (given Hellenization). We also know that unlike modern day judaisers who are obsessed with hebrew that ancient Jews didn't really have a problem writing in Greek and that there is a lot of Greek literature written by Jews.

So why were the Apostles wrong to use the word Iesous of their Lord?

So you're telling me that a Hebrew, who spoke Hebrew, wrote a letter to Hebrews, who read Hebrew; and he wrote it in Greek?

I don't buy it.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Apr 19, 2020

HARK! said:
So you're telling me that a Hebrew, who spoke Hebrew, wrote a letter to Hebrews, who read Hebrew; and he wrote it in Greek?

I don't buy it.

If you wanted to write to Gentile audiences, such as the Galatians, the Romans, and whomever else, you would not pen a letter in an archaic language like hebrew. (It was archaic even by the standards of that time. Aramaic was more spoken in Israel). You would pen in the literate language of the time that most people could understand, especially if your audience were not natives of Roman Israel.

Greek was the lingua Franca of the Empire in that it could be understood by more people everywhere than localised languages. Also we have evidence of Jews writing in Greek and not having nearly as many hang ups as you would. Josepheus, 2nd Maccabees, Philo and i would especially include Paul.

If your only basis for denying the original Greek is that they were "Hebrews" and therefore wouldn't write in Greek... Well I suppose by this logic Lucian could never have written in Greek, being an Assyrian. Augustine being a native of Carthage could never have written in Latin. I guess most of our Christian Greek literature was never actually written in that language since many of the authors were not themselves Greek in ethnicity.

Can you establish that there was a practice amongst Jews of not even writing in Greek? That the authors of the New Testament followed this? Also can you explain what it would accomplish to write the letter to the Romans in Hebrew?

Der Alte · Apr 19, 2020

HARK! said:
Exactly, so the name Yahshua cannot truly be expressed in Greek. It can however be fully expressed in Hebrew.

How do you propose to communicate that to Greek speakers? Remember the LXX was translated in to Greek so people who spoke Greek could read it.

HARK! said:
So you're telling me that a Hebrew, who spoke Hebrew, wrote a letter to Hebrews, who read Hebrew; and he wrote it in Greek?
I don't buy it.

Which Hebrew writing to which other Hebrews?

Mr. M · Apr 19, 2020

HARK! said:
Oh my! I AM writing to you; but don't get the wrong idea, by reading into what isn't there; and it's not a name.

I AM aware. There are hundreds of examples of using I am without hayah.
Genesis 23:4. ger towshab I am a stranger.
Genesis 24:24 bat Bethuel I am the daughter of Bethuel.
and many, many more. So Moses asks:
Exodus 3:13. What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exodus 3:14. hayah hayah.
Do you have a better translation than I am that I am? I am interested.
But here is the kicker back to you.
Exodus 3:15. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, *The LORD God of your fathers*, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
The LORD God of your fathers YHWH elohiym ab.
"this is my memorial" unto all generations. mistranslated, zeker should be remembrance. Again I ask, is the difference between Memorial and Remembrance even understood?
Mark 12:26, 27. And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
So according to Yahushua, YHWW elohiym implies the living God. The present God. Not a proper name, a name of remembrance. Do you know what that means?
When Yahushua referred to himself as I AM, the people who heard knew exactly what He was referring to, God identified at the burning bush. There is no qualifier, such as you provided with I AM writing to you. Were you offering me a grammar lesson?
*Exodus 6:3. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name YHWH I was not known to them.

Blade · Apr 19, 2020

Praise GOD for His word. So what do we say to those that know Hebrew Greek "THERE IS NO SUCH NAME AS YAHSHUA. It didn’t exist in biblical times and it has not existed as a genuine Hebrew name in history — until people who really didn’t understand Hebrew made it up, thinking that it somehow restored the “Yah” element (from “Yahweh”) into the Savior’s name. If you want more details on this, you can read my article here. (While I’m at it, there’s no such either as Yahushua — Joshua was pronounced ye-ho-shu-ah — and God’s name was NEVER pronounced Yahua or the like. "

What I do know is the power is in the one that name belongs to.

Der Alte · Apr 19, 2020

Blade said:
Praise GOD for His word. So what do we say to those that know Hebrew Greek "THERE IS NO SUCH NAME AS YAHSHUA. It didn’t exist in biblical times and it has not existed as a genuine Hebrew name in history — until people who really didn’t understand Hebrew made it up, thinking that it somehow restored the “Yah” element (from “Yahweh”) into the Savior’s name. If you want more details on this, you can read my article here. (While I’m at it, there’s no such either as Yahushua — Joshua was pronounced ye-ho-shu-ah — and God’s name was NEVER pronounced Yahua or the like. "
What I do know is the power is in the one that name belongs to.

I have read those weird pronunciations many times on this forum. Several years ago I decided to check the name out in the Jewish encyclopedia. The full article is much longer.

Jewish Encyclopedia-Names of God
In appearance, Yhwh (יהוה) is the third person singular imperfect "kal" of the verb ( הוה ("to be"), meaning, therefore, "He is," or "He will be," or, perhaps, "He lives," the root idea of the word being, probably, "to blow," "to breathe," and hence, "to live." With this explanation agrees the meaning of the name given in Ex. iii. 14, where God is represented as speaking, and hence as using the first person—"I am" (אהיה, from ( היה, the later equivalent of the archaic stem ( הוה). The meaning would, therefore, be "He who is self-existing, self-sufficient," or, more concretely, "He who lives," the abstract conception of pure existence being foreign to Hebrew thought. There is no doubt that the idea of life was intimately connected with the name Yhwh from early times. He is the living God, as contrasted with the lifeless gods of the heathen, and He is the source and author of life (comp. I Kings xviii.; Isa. xli. 26-29, xliv. 6-20; Jer. x. 10, 14; Gen. ii. 7; etc.). So familiar is this conception of God to the Hebrew mind that it appears in the common formula of an oath, "hai Yhwh" ( חי־יהוה = "as Yhwh lives"; Ruth iii. 13; I Sam. xiv. 45; etc.).
If the explanation of the form above given be the true one, the original pronunciation must have been Yahweh ((יהוה) or Yahaweh (יהוה). From this the contracted form Jah or Yah (יה ) is most readily explained, and also the forms Jeho or Yeho (יהו ), and Jo or Yo (יו contracted from יהו , which the word assumes in combination in the first part of compound proper names, and Yahu or Yah (יהו ) in the second part of such names. The fact may also be mentioned that in Samaritan poetry יהוה rimes with words similar in ending to Yahweh, and Theodoret ("Quæst. 15 in Exodum") states that the Samaritans pronounced the name Iαβέ. Epiphanius ascribes the same pronunciation to an early Christian sect. Clement of Alexandria, still more exactly, pronounces 'Iαουέ or 'Iαουαί, and Origen, 'Iα. Aquila wrote the name in archaic Hebrew letters. In the Jewish-Egyptian magic-papyri it appears as Ιαωουηε. At least as early as the third century B.C. the name seems to have been regarded by the Jews as a "nomen ineffabile," on the basis of a somewhat extreme interpretation of Ex. xx. 7 and Lev. xxiv. 11 (see Philo, "De Vita Mosis," iii. 519, 529). Written only in consonants, the true pronunciation was forgotten by them. The Septuagint, and after it the New Testament, invariably render κύριος ("the Lord").
Jewish Encyclopedia online

Mr. M · Apr 19, 2020

Revelation 3:18. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
What? New Name? Keep seeking Him for you will not find Him in language or letters, but in the Light.

Der Alte · Apr 19, 2020

HARK! said:
Why would you conclude that it was written in Greek? Did you find the autographs?

Have you found the Hebrew NT manuscripts?

bTbRo · Apr 19, 2020

Der Alter said:
I use ESword free online Bible program. It has a lot of Bibles. I have 19 on my laptop. It has a Brown Driver Briggs Hebrew also LSJ classical Greek module. BDB can also be D/L at internet archives. ESword does not have BDAG Greek .

Why do you need more than one bible?

bTbRo · Apr 19, 2020

Der Alter said:
Have you found the Hebrew NT manuscripts?

Why would you ever look for them?

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