I'm lost..

Jamie grieve · Apr 19, 2020

Hi there I'm jamie from Blackburn Lancashire in the UK.. I have been a Christian for a few years now but I have got to admit that I don't understand all things eschatology. I have been reading some books and articles by Joel Richardson and a few other people. For example t issue regarding the return of Jesus.. What is the correct belief? I have read that Jesus will come back to Israel to rule for a thousand years. What I don't understand is what is true. Is that before the creation of a new heaven and earth. And if everyone sees his return in the clouds will we be able to speak with him like a regular man. And what about the rapture. Who believes what and why.. Do different denominations share different ideas about this.. Can anyone tell me what they know about it all.. I feel like I'm a bit silly for even asking this like i should know it all already but I don't.. Thanks anyway Jamie

Jesus is my Superhero · Apr 19, 2020

Jamie grieve said:
Hi there I'm jamie from Blackburn Lancashire in the UK.. I have been a Christian for a few years now but I have got to admit that I don't understand all things eschatology. I have been reading some books and articles by Joel Richardson and a few other people. For example t issue regarding the return of Jesus.. What is the correct belief? I have read that Jesus will come back to Israel to rule for a thousand years. What I don't understand is what is true. Is that before the creation of a new heaven and earth. And if everyone sees his return in the clouds will we be able to speak with him like a regular man. And what about the rapture. Who believes what and why.. Do different denominations share different ideas about this.. Can anyone tell me what they know about it all.. I feel like I'm a bit silly for even asking this like i should know it all already but I don't.. Thanks anyway Jamie

Jesus is my Superhero · Apr 19, 2020

Sorry about the above post with nothing written.

What I want to recommend is videos on Youtube by Rabbi Kirt Schneider, a messianic Jew. He has an excellent video on this topic. Of course it is entirely up to you what your views are on this topic.

Jamie grieve · Apr 19, 2020

Jesus is my Superhero said:
Sorry about the above post with nothing written.

What I want to recommend is videos on Youtube by Rabbi Kirt Schneider, a messianic Jew. He has an excellent video on this topic. Of course it is entirely up to you what your views are on this topic.

Thanks for your reply and yes I will look into it thanks Jamie

Douggg · Apr 19, 2020

Jamie grieve said:
Hi there I'm jamie from Blackburn Lancashire in the UK.. I have been a Christian for a few years now but I have got to admit that I don't understand all things eschatology. I have been reading some books and articles by Joel Richardson and a few other people. For example t issue regarding the return of Jesus.. What is the correct belief? I have read that Jesus will come back to Israel to rule for a thousand years. What I don't understand is what is true. Is that before the creation of a new heaven and earth. And if everyone sees his return in the clouds will we be able to speak with him like a regular man. And what about the rapture. Who believes what and why.. Do different denominations share different ideas about this.. Can anyone tell me what they know about it all.. I feel like I'm a bit silly for even asking this like i should know it all already but I don't.. Thanks anyway Jamie

I can help you. I am 71 and have almost 50 years eschatology study. I am familiar with all the most common views.

There are three basic views, mostly centered on the arch villain of the end times, who he is, is where they differ.

1. the historist view - that the pope/papacy is that person.

2. the muslim antichrist/beast view - that the Muslim mahdi is that person.

3. the European antichrist/ beast view - that the person emerges out of Europe.

I hold view #3. Here is a chart I made that should help you. Start in the upper left and follow down diagonally on the red path which contains most of the major events, to the lower right and Jesus's return.

Just read each of the bible passage referenced on the chart as you follow down through.

horiziontal_chart_March_10h,_2020_.jpg.8405d5a425dcfd2b48bafdc16e178d46.jpg

timothyu · Apr 19, 2020

You will get a lot of replies but quite frankly it is how you live now that matters.

Be it Kingdom, thousand year reign or now, Jesus expected us to put the will of the Father before our own, thus loving all as self.

Hidden In Him · Apr 19, 2020

Jamie grieve said:
Hi there I'm jamie from Blackburn Lancashire in the UK.. I have been a Christian for a few years now but I have got to admit that I don't understand all things eschatology. I have been reading some books and articles by Joel Richardson and a few other people. For example t issue regarding the return of Jesus.. What is the correct belief? I have read that Jesus will come back to Israel to rule for a thousand years. What I don't understand is what is true. Is that before the creation of a new heaven and earth. And if everyone sees his return in the clouds will we be able to speak with him like a regular man. And what about the rapture. Who believes what and why.. Do different denominations share different ideas about this.. Can anyone tell me what they know about it all.. I feel like I'm a bit silly for even asking this like i should know it all already but I don't.. Thanks anyway Jamie

Joel Richardson is good. He believes in view #2 in Dougg's post, as do I.

In answer to your questions, yes He returns before the creation of the New Heaven and New Earth, before even the millennium, in fact. And yes we will be able to speak to Him as a man.

Jamie grieve said:
And what about the rapture. Who believes what and why.. Do different denominations share different ideas about this.. Can anyone tell me what they know about it all.. I feel like I'm a bit silly for even asking this like i should know it all already but I don't.. Thanks anyway Jamie

Heavens yes, LoL. There are multitudes of different interpretations on the rapture I'm afraid, from pre-trib to mid-trib to post-trib to pre-wrath to no rapture at all, and many in-between. So you are just going to have to pray to the Lord to begin revealing things to you, one verse at a time. It is a rather heady and involved issue, and threads are posted on the question all the time, so you will have no shortage of opinions. But the Holy Spirit is the One sent to lead you into all truth, so if you will seek out HIS voice and keep seeking Him, eventually you will come to the truth.

God bless, and wish you the very best.
Welcome to Christian Forums,
Hidden In Him

LoveGodsWord · Apr 19, 2020

Jamie grieve said:
Hi there I'm jamie from Blackburn Lancashire in the UK.. I have been a Christian for a few years now but I have got to admit that I don't understand all things eschatology. I have been reading some books and articles by Joel Richardson and a few other people. For example t issue regarding the return of Jesus.. What is the correct belief? I have read that Jesus will come back to Israel to rule for a thousand years. What I don't understand is what is true. Is that before the creation of a new heaven and earth. And if everyone sees his return in the clouds will we be able to speak with him like a regular man. And what about the rapture. Who believes what and why.. Do different denominations share different ideas about this.. Can anyone tell me what they know about it all.. I feel like I'm a bit silly for even asking this like i should know it all already but I don't.. Thanks anyway Jamie

Hi Jamie, welcome to CF. I see you are asking the same questions that many here have asked here in the past we well. How do we know if we are following Gods' truth or not? What we see today is the fulfillment of the prophecies of JESUS that in the last days there will be many false teachers trying to lead people away from God and his Word. The Devil is walking about like a raoring lion seeking who he may devour because he knows his time is short.

Today we are literally seeing the fulfillment in the prophecies of the scriptures of false doctrines from the teachings and traditions of men that seek to turn us away from God and his Word.

You are right to feel cautious, but you do not need to feel overwlemed. In the last days before JESUS returns there will be many false teachers that will deceive if possible Gods very elect *MATTHEW 24:24; 2 PETER 2:1-5; 2 TIMOTHY 4:1-4.

Today we see from one of the last Christian surveys that there is over 40,000 different Christian denominations all proffessing to be Gods chosen. They can't all be right can they? So I believe God is guiding you to be careful in what you are reading as many will be swept away by false teachings before the 2nd coming.

Why do I say you do not need to be overwelmed? Well very simply do not make the same mistake as many others do. Turn away from trying to find God's truth through the teachings and traditions of men. God's promise to all those who seek him through prayer and his Word is that you shall seek me and find me when you shall search for me with all of your heart *JEREMIAH 29:11-13.

God's promises that those who want to know His truth will know it. Claim and believe his promises and seek him through prayer and his Word and believe his promises...

JOHN 7:17 [17], If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

JOHN 14:26 [26], But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

JOHN 16:13 [13], However, when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

HEBREWS 8:11 [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

1 JOHN 2:27 [27], But the anointing which you have received of him stays in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him.

You have all good reason to be careful. You have all God's promises to guide you and lead you. If you put your trust in him, he will never leave you or forsake you and promises to teach you all things if you ask him and seek him through his Word and continue doing so.

Turn away from the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God and seek JESUS through a prayerful searching of his Word asking him to be your guide and teacher and he will be there for you.

God bless.

ewq1938 · Apr 19, 2020

Jamie grieve said:
For example t issue regarding the return of Jesus.. What is the correct belief? I have read that Jesus will come back to Israel to rule for a thousand years. What I don't understand is what is true.

That is correct according to the Premill view. Amillennialism teaches he returns after the thousand years and we are living in that Millennial period now. I think looking around at the world will show we aren't living in the mill now.

Is that before the creation of a new heaven and earth.

The new heaven and Earth comes after the great white throne judgment. The GWTJ in the end of Revelation 20 and the NHNE is found in Revelation 21. Note that when the NHNE happens there are no more seas on Earth yet in the prior chapter seas still exist showing the chapters are chronological. Death also does not exist in Revelation 21, but does still exist in Revelation 20.

And what about the rapture.

The bible places the rapture after the second coming and resurrection of the dead in Christ, so post trib rather than pretrib.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Context is the second coming.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Context is the second coming.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

This is the second coming and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is the rapture and it happens after the second coming of Christ which only happens once the great tribulation has ended. The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul.

So, the proper order of events according to scripture:

1. the second coming begins/Christ leaves heaven. (1Th 4:16) (this doesn't happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat_24:29)
2. the resurrection. (dead saints resurrect bodily in heaven and follow Christ as he returns to the Earth-second coming) (1Th 4:14-16)
3. the rapture. (living saints on Earth are gathered together from where ever they are on the Earth in order to meet Christ in the clouds when he arrives)(1Th 4:17)
This proves the pre-trib (and mid-trib) rapture to be false because the second coming comes after the tribulation not before or during it, Mat 24:29-30

So, the second coming happens and then the resurrection and then the rapture, all after the trib has ended.

Yesha · Apr 19, 2020

Hello Jaimie! And welcome to the board.

Eschatology is indeed a difficult domain of theology to grasp because it is not just about interpreting the Revelation, but understanding God's overarching purpose in and through redemptive history. There are three eschatological views that relate to the second coming of Jesus Christ (see chart below for a very brief overview). These views fall within historic Christian orthodoxy and are a helpful introduction to the eschatological landscape.

keras · Apr 19, 2020

What WILL happen:

The enemies of the Lord gather - Micah 4:11-12, Ezekiel 36:2

They conspire to attack Israel - Psalms 83:1-8, Isaiah 21:2

They prepare their weapons - Psalms 7:12, Ezekiel 7:14

This is the situation today.

To happen in the near future:
At the moment of attack, God will use His Creation, the sun to send fire - Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-43, Isaiah 30:26 & 30, Psalms 11:4-6, Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Peter 3:7, Amos 1:1-15 & 2:1-5, , Psalms 50:1-3, Zephaniah 3:8, Revelation 6:12-17

The sun will explode with an extremely bright flash and the moon will reflect bright red - Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1, Joel 2:31, Acts 2:20, Habakkuk 3:4-5

The Lord will make their weapons recoil upon themselves, the EMP hit will cause them to explode - Psalms 7:13-16, Joel 3:4, Obadiah 15

Then the sun, moon and stars will be obscured by the approaching Coronal Mass Ejection - Psalms 18:11-12, Isaiah 13:9-13, Ezekiel 32:7-8, Amos 8:9

A huge superhot mass of hydrogen plasma approaches the earth – Joel 1:15-20, Malachi 4:1, Zephaniah 1:14-18

Everyone on earth will be shocked and terrified - Jeremiah 6:24-26, Ezekiel 21:5-7a, Isaiah 13:6-8, Revelation 6:15-17

The atmosphere will be pushed aside – Revelation 6:14, 2 Peter 3:10, Isaiah 34:4

The whole earth will be enveloped by fire - Isaiah 66:15, Zeph. 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7

In the Holy Land, only a remnant will survive - Zechariah 13:8-9, Isaiah 6:11-13

He will judge the nations, the wicked will die - Isaiah 63:1-6, Habakkuk 3:12, Revelation 14 18-20, Isaiah 66:17, Isaiah 29:20-21, Hebrews 10:27

His enemies will become ashes - Malachi 4:3, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 49:2, Matthew 3:12b

Millions will die around the world - Psalms 97:3-5, Jeremiah 25:33, Isaiah 13:12

The Lord will protect those who call to Him - Isaiah 43:2, Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

But most people will take shelter until it passes. Isaiah 2:19, Revelation 6:15

The survivors form a One World Govt. - Daniel 7:23-24, Revelation 17:12

The Holy Land will be regenerated - Ezekiel 36:8, Joel 2:21-24, Isaiah 35:1-10, Amos 9:13-15, Jeremiah 33:12-14

And the Lord's faithful Christian people will gather there. - Psalms 107, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 7:9-14

They will become the new nation of Beulah - Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 36:3-38, Jer. 31

They will build a new Temple – Zechariah 6:15, Haggai 2:9, Ezekiel 40 to 48

The attack by a Northern army will be won by the Lord – Ezekiel 38:22, Joel 2:20

The leaders of Beulah will sign a 7 year peace treaty with the leader of the O.W.G. Daniel 9:27, Isaiah 28:15

At the mid point he will break it and conquer Beulah -Daniel 9:27, Zechariah 14:1-2

This commences the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the Great Tribulation - Rev 8:2-

Those who kept their faith in God will be taken to a safe place on earth. Daniel 11:32b, Revelation 12:14

3.5 years later, Jesus will Return in His glory, for His Millennial reign - Revelation 19:11-21, Matthew 24:30-31, Zechariah 14:3-4

The Lord has told us His plans and He will not relent or change them - Jeremiah 4:28

There are plenty more prophesies and details to prove this scenario.

Believe it or not; up to everyone to make up their own minds! Psalms 19:11-12, Isaiah 48:6

Christian Gedge · Apr 19, 2020

Jamie grieve said:
Hi there I'm jamie from Blackburn Lancashire in the UK.. I have been a Christian for a few years now but I have got to admit that I don't understand all things eschatology. I have been reading some books and articles by Joel Richardson and a few other people. For example t issue regarding the return of Jesus.. What is the correct belief? I have read that Jesus will come back to Israel to rule for a thousand years. What I don't understand is what is true. Is that before the creation of a new heaven and earth. And if everyone sees his return in the clouds will we be able to speak with him like a regular man. And what about the rapture. Who believes what and why.. Do different denominations share different ideas about this.. Can anyone tell me what they know about it all.. I feel like I'm a bit silly for even asking this like i should know it all already but I don't.. Thanks anyway Jamie

Hi Jamie,
You will get a lot of conflicting views on a forum like this. Here is a simple overview of the basics that you can print out and study without any pressure. Similar to the chart approach above by Yesha, and designed for home groups. Blessings.

Things to Come.

jgr · Apr 20, 2020

Jamie grieve said:
Hi there I'm jamie from Blackburn Lancashire in the UK.. I have been a Christian for a few years now but I have got to admit that I don't understand all things eschatology. I have been reading some books and articles by Joel Richardson and a few other people. For example t issue regarding the return of Jesus.. What is the correct belief? I have read that Jesus will come back to Israel to rule for a thousand years. What I don't understand is what is true. Is that before the creation of a new heaven and earth. And if everyone sees his return in the clouds will we be able to speak with him like a regular man. And what about the rapture. Who believes what and why.. Do different denominations share different ideas about this.. Can anyone tell me what they know about it all.. I feel like I'm a bit silly for even asking this like i should know it all already but I don't.. Thanks anyway Jamie

Hi Jamie,

Here is a site that you may find useful when comparing various viewpoints.

God bless you in your quest.

Jamie grieve · Apr 20, 2020

jgr said:
Hi Jamie,

Here is a site that you may find useful when comparing various viewpoints.

God bless you in your quest.

I have been to look at the website you sent me but it is very in support of replacement theology and I don't know where i stand on all this..

jgr · Apr 20, 2020

Jamie grieve said:
I have been to look at the website you sent me but it is very in support of replacement theology and I don't know where i stand on all this..

Christ abolished racial distinctions at the Cross.

Ephesians 2:14-16
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

Galatians 3
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Any attempt to resurrect those distinctions is counter-Scriptural.

timothyu · Apr 20, 2020

jgr said:
Christ abolished racial distinctions at the Cross.

True enough. Your ways are either of the world of man or of the Kingdom. It applies to all.

Marilyn C · Apr 21, 2020

Jamie grieve said:
Hi there I'm jamie from Blackburn Lancashire in the UK.. I have been a Christian for a few years now but I have got to admit that I don't understand all things eschatology. I have been reading some books and articles by Joel Richardson and a few other people. For example t issue regarding the return of Jesus.. What is the correct belief? I have read that Jesus will come back to Israel to rule for a thousand years. What I don't understand is what is true. Is that before the creation of a new heaven and earth. And if everyone sees his return in the clouds will we be able to speak with him like a regular man. And what about the rapture. Who believes what and why.. Do different denominations share different ideas about this.. Can anyone tell me what they know about it all.. I feel like I'm a bit silly for even asking this like i should know it all already but I don't.. Thanks anyway Jamie

Hi Jamie,

I can quite understand how confusing it all is. I pray that the Lord will guide you.

Now I can offer my `blogs` here on this forum. I was a school teacher, (now retired) and I have written notes on these topics you want. I made them simple with diagrams, pictures and one point per page. I suggest you look at the `God`s Eternal Purposes,` for that covers the whole Bible. It is in the `Eternal Purposes,` area of my blogs, (starting on page 2)

all the best, Marilyn.

Davy · Apr 21, 2020

Jamie grieve said:
Hi there I'm jamie from Blackburn Lancashire in the UK.. I have been a Christian for a few years now but I have got to admit that I don't understand all things eschatology. I have been reading some books and articles by Joel Richardson and a few other people. For example t issue regarding the return of Jesus.. What is the correct belief? I have read that Jesus will come back to Israel to rule for a thousand years. What I don't understand is what is true. Is that before the creation of a new heaven and earth. And if everyone sees his return in the clouds will we be able to speak with him like a regular man. And what about the rapture. Who believes what and why.. Do different denominations share different ideas about this.. Can anyone tell me what they know about it all.. I feel like I'm a bit silly for even asking this like i should know it all already but I don't.. Thanks anyway Jamie

Read your Bible for yourself, asking our Heavenly Father for understanding, in Christ's name. That should always... be your first and primary move.

If you rely on men's commentaries for the Truth, you will be misled into so many directions you won't know what hit you.

We are living in times today when God is allowing great confusion to happen, for many will be deceived by the coming Antichrist test in our near future. God showed He will send a famine in the land, not one of bread or water, but of hearing the words of The LORD (Amos 8:9-13). Because of that especially, you'd best rely on Him for your understanding which can only come by getting a workman's comprehension of His written Word with help of The Holy Spirit.

How you gonna' know if someone is telling you the Truth or not if you don't already know what God's Word says as written? Those at Berea, Apostle Paul commended, because they opened up God's Word to check him out when he preached to them (Acts 17). That's what we are to do, not just believe whatever man tells us.

JulieB67 · Apr 22, 2020

Hi Jamie, I'm a newbie at this forum but I agree with Davy's post. First and foremost read and study for yourself.

I will give you a backstory on my experience. I'm 52 and was raised in a Baptist church that taught of a secret rapture all of my life. I never once picked up my bible to check out anything for myself. I just blindly believed what I had been taught. I was one of those so called Christians that rarely picked up my bible to do some studying. I had verses throughout my life that I had known but had never really even read the bible in it's entirety until about 17 years ago when someone planted a seed for me. I was shocked to think at the possibilty that my beliefs weren't even biblical. So I went to the bible with an open mind only wanted to truth.

Christ says he has foretold us all things and he indeed has. I suggest studying

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. Christ lays out everything perfectly about the end times. If Christ had taught a secret rapture it would be there but it's not.

Paul is a second witness to Christ's teachings. Both give out strict warnings to not be deceived on this subject. So it is very important.

Christ says he immediatly comes back "after" the tribulation and as a Christian it is my duty to believe him. Paul names this event in 1st Thes chapter 5 (the subject hasn't changed from chapter 4) the Day of the Lord. This day has been talked about all througout the bible. Old and new.
And since the Thessalonians were confused themselves on the timing after his first letter he had to write a second letter and tells them not to be confused or shaken in mind (even with his first letter) and proceeds to nails down the timing. 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2. So he's telling them, don't even let 1st Thessalonians confuse you.

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Falling away is apostasy in the Greek

I Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

This is Satan/Antichrist sitting in Jerusalem pretending to be God.

First witness to this is Isaiah 14,

Isaiah 14:13; "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isaiah 14:14; "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High

He's sitting upon the mount of congregation (temple mount in Jerusalem) proclaiming to be God.

Isaiah 14:15; "Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

2nd witness that this is the same entity brought down to the pit.

"Revelation 20:2 "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

"Revelation 20:3 "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years
should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Some will say Anitchrist will be human but that's not true. Angels are called men at times in the bible,

Isaiah 14:16; "They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;"

Notice after he is thrown into the pit, they say "is this the MAN that made the earth tremple and did shake kingdoms?

Also many will say Revelation does not pertain to us but it does,

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

John was taken to the Lord's Day when he sets out to write this. This is a future event, not past. And he is given instructions to write about the past, present and future.

Revelation 1:19 "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;"

I also did a study on the word "taken" I highly suggest a Strong's Condordance with a King James Bible as that is the only bible that can be translated back to the Hebrew and Greek. And many words get lost in translation and also can have different meanings in different verses.

The word "taken" for example. Many pretribers believe this verse,

Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left."
is talking about a rapture when it's actually the opposite when you see that the word taken here is - 3880 in the Strongs

paralambano- and it means to receive near or associates one's self with.

Common sense tells me the ones taken here are the ones that receive the mark of the beast.

Because if the verse were to prove the rapture, they would have used this example,

Matthew 9:15 "And Jesus said unto them, "Can the children of the bride chamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be TAKEN from them, and then shall they fast."

The word "taken" there is Strong's Concordance Greek 522

apairo - means to lift off, remove, take away.

And that's just one word that can take on different meanings.

Anway, that's just some of what I've learned over the years - which comes strictly from the Bible, I believe that traditions do truly make void the word of God. When reading the bible, it must be done chapter by chapter and verse by verse to keep the context.

And it's good to get ideas and opinions but we should back everything with the word of God. I'm strictly a scripture person.

And reading the bible has brought me back to God, the father and our Lord Jesus.

Douggg · Apr 22, 2020

JulieB67 said:
Hi Jamie, I'm a newbie at this forum but I agree with Davy's post. First and foremost read and study for yourself.

I will give you a backstory on my experience. I'm 52 and was raised in a Baptist church that taught of a secret rapture all of my life. I never once picked up my bible to check out anything for myself. I just blindly believed what I had been taught. I was one of those so called Christians that rarely picked up my bible to do some studying. I had verses throughout my life that I had known but had never really even read the bible in it's entirety until about 17 years ago when someone planted a seed for me. I was shocked to think at the possibilty that my beliefs weren't even biblical. So I went to the bible with an open mind only wanted to truth.

Christ says he has foretold us all things and he indeed has. I suggest studying

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. Christ lays out everything perfectly about the end times. If Christ had taught a secret rapture it would be there but it's not.

Paul is a second witness to Christ's teachings. Both give out strict warnings to not be deceived on this subject. So it is very important.

Christ says he immediatly comes back "after" the tribulation and as a Christian it is my duty to believe him. Paul names this event in 1st Thes chapter 5 (the subject hasn't changed from chapter 4) the Day of the Lord. This day has been talked about all througout the bible. Old and new.
And since the Thessalonians were confused themselves on the timing after his first letter he had to write a second letter and tells them not to be confused or shaken in mind (even with his first letter) and proceeds to nails down the timing. 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2. So he's telling them, don't even let 1st Thessalonians confuse you.

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Falling away is apostasy in the Greek

I Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

This is Satan/Antichrist sitting in Jerusalem pretending to be God.

First witness to this is Isaiah 14,

Isaiah 14:13; "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isaiah 14:14; "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High

He's sitting upon the mount of congregation (temple mount in Jerusalem) proclaiming to be God.

Isaiah 14:15; "Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

2nd witness that this is the same entity brought down to the pit.

"Revelation 20:2 "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

"Revelation 20:3 "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years
should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Some will say Anitchrist will be human but that's not true. Angels are called men at times in the bible,

Isaiah 14:16; "They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;"

Notice after he is thrown into the pit, they say "is this the MAN that made the earth tremple and did shake kingdoms?

Also many will say Revelation does not pertain to us but it does,

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

John was taken to the Lord's Day when he set's out to write this. This is a future event, not past. And he is given instructions to write about the past, present and future.

Revelation 1:19 "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;"

I also did a study on the word "taken" I highly suggest a Strong's Condordance with a King James Bible as that is the only bible that can be translated back to the Hebrew and Greek. And many words get lost in translation and also can have different meanings in different verses.

The word "taken" for example. Many pretribers believe this verse,

Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left."
is talking about a rapture when it's actually the opposite when you see that the word taken here is - 3880 in the Strongs

paralambano- and it means to receive near or associates one's self with.

Common sense tells me the ones taken here are the ones that receive the mark of the beast.

Because if the verse were to prove the rapture, they would have used this example,

Matthew 9:15 "And Jesus said unto them, "Can the children of the bride chamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be TAKEN from them, and then shall they fast."

The word "taken" there is Strong's Concordance Greek 522

apairo - means to lift off, remove, take away.

And that's just one word that can take on different meanings.

Anway, that's just some of what I've learned over the years - which comes strictly from the Bible, I believe that traditions do truly make void the word of God. When reading the bible, it must be done chapter by chapter and verse by verse to keep the context.

And it's good to get ideas and opinions but we should back everything with the word of God. I'm strictly a scripture person.

And reading the bible has brought me back to God, the father and our Lord Jesus.

Me thinks that somewhere along the line you were seduced by some posttrib commentators/influence... and did not come up with all that rationale on your own.

I'm lost..

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