War, what is it good for?

Job_38

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Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, "And what shall we do?" So he said to them, "Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages." --Luke 3:14

John the Baptist's call to the Roman soldiers who came to him. Many people wish to make God into a God of only love and peace, which He is. What we forget is the God of the New Testament is also the God of the Old Testament: a God of wrath and vengeance who used war to bring down corrupt nations and unjust rulers. The God of the Bible is described as a warrior (Exod. 15:3). This is the God to which we subscribe.

<B>Does God condone war? Yes. Does He use it? Absolutely! God used Israel many times to fight against evil men and unjust kings. God has fought for the innocent and the weak. But how do we reconcile the warring God of the Old Testament with the peaceful God of the New? </B>

First we must look at the absolute of God. God is unchanging. Between the Old and New Testament transition, God stayed the same. He did not suddenly become a pacifist or change His party affiliation. God is unchanging.

The same God which condoned war and used it for His purpose in the Old Testament is the same God today, and still does the same. Looking over history war has been used as a last resort to replace tyrannical leadership or to free humanity from harm and danger from their own government. God has used war to bring peace and defeat evil. God has control and ordains war, as in 1 Chronicles 5:22: "For many fell slain, because the war was of God."

<B>This is the premise of war: We, as people, should not go to war to plunder and rape a country, but to liberate it or the people of it. </B>

When looking to the war in Iraq, as Christians we must discern whether or not it is of God. To do this we must observe the nature of God, the nature of this war, and the proper earthly authority in which this war has been authorized.

First, God's nature demands peace. God loves peace and hates evil. Many would accept the former but deny the latter. God loves peace, yet He absolutely hates evil. He will judge evil. There is a final judgment, at the time of death, and an earthly judgment which God administers through mankind. At times the only way to peace is to stop evil, and the only way to stop evil is with war. God has used war in this way throughout the Old Testament. God destroyed Sodom and Gommorah. He used war to judge the godless cities of Cannan. It is through war that God brings His judgment and eradicates evil from the face of the earth. We can truthfully say that this is what is being done in Iraq.

Secondly, we must examine the nature of war. Historically we are at the pinacle of wartime technology. Using precision guided cruise missiles, GPS satellite technology, and such weaponry, we can fire a missile directly into an enemy’s bedroom window. We can bomb a military target that is surrounded by civilian buildings without touching those buildings. Thus, through this technology we can keep innocent civilian casualties in the dozens, if not a handful, while performing a military objective. Unlike the carpet bombing of World War Two, the American military can know exactly what they are hitting and prevent themselves from hitting innocent people. We know that the United States has the upmost regard for civilian life, and will preserve it at all means. Our civilian loss in this war will be minimal, and the benefit to the Iraqi people will be enormous.

Lastly, we are called to submit before our leadership, and that the leadership we have is either placed or allowed by God. He has control over all. God put Bush in office, just like He put Regan, Carter, and Washington in office. Just like how He put David in office over Israel. It is through God either creating or allowing the authority that we have the leadership we have. And in the position as the leader of the free world, President George W. Bush is authorized, not only constitutionally or by Congress (per the overwhelming vote last year) to declare war, but by God. He is authorized to declare this war and, by the power of God, is obliged to. President Bush, as a man of God and a world leader, has the responsibility to prevent the spread of evil and protect innocent lives, even if this means shedding of blood. Not only does President Bush have the authority to declare war in Iraq, but he has the obligation to. He must bear the burden of this decision, and must make it wisely, as spoken in Luke 14:31: "Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?"

As for pacifism, Francis Schaeffer once said:

<I>What should be our own perspective on military preparedness?... From my own study of Scripture I would say that to refuse to do what I can for those who are under the power of oppressors is nothing less than the failure of Christian love .... This is why I am not a pacifist. Pacifism in this poor fallen world in which we live-this lost world-means that we desert the people who need our greatest help</I><I>.</I>

We do not have the choice, as Christians, to be pacifists. We must not carry personal grudges, but we must stand up against evil. Such leadership as Hussien’s is evil.

We want to be neither pacifists, nor militarists. We would define a pacifist as one who will not sanction or take part in any war no matter what the occasion or the apparent justification — one who is for peace at any price; and we would define a militarist as one who favors heavy military armaments, primarily for purposes of aggression against other nations. We expect to show that the position which should be taken by anyone who is a true Christian and also a loyal citizen lies somewhere between these two extremes.

It should hardly be necessary to say that we hate war as do all right-minded people. We hope that our country may never have to engage in another. We desire peace, but we realize there are some things worse than war. We desire peace, but not the kind that is found in the cemetery or in the slave camp. It is true that Christ came as the Prince of peace, and that His followers should strive to promote peace by all lawful means. And for that reason it may seem strange that any professed Christian should enter a protest against the modern pacifist movement. Anyone who does speak against it, or against certain trends in it, doubtless will be misunderstood by some. We believe, however, that movement is dangerous, and that it has no necessary or legitimate part in the evangelical Christian program. (Lorraine Boettner)

Conclusion:

Thus, the Christian position on Iraq, whether they agree with the President or not, should be to seek peace after the purging of the evil. That through this war may the Lord’s will be done, and may we come to a point where we recognize that the freedom of the Iraqi people from the evils of Hussien and his regime brings beauty to our world, even in its fallen state, and that some day soon we may be able to openly worship with our Iraqi brothers and sisters in Christ, free from fear and dictatorship.

--Joshua Seek
 
As I have mentioned in a previous post to make such a blanket statement about what constitutes the Christian position on war is rather myopic at least and dangerous at worst.

Henry Nouwen, Nelson Mandela, Leo Tolstoy, Marin Luther King were all pacificists who in the face of urging from their followers to take up arms resisted. Does this make them not Christian?

I think we should understand that it is not as cut and dry as this. Take for example Dietrich Boenhoffer he took up arms in an attempt to take out Hitler, but it does not make him less of a Christian than any of the aforementioned.

Mohatma Ghandi spiritually led a whole nation, which could have easily taken out their oppressors to victory through peaceful means. Many early Christians suffered at the hands of oppressive dicatorships but they relied on nothing else than the grace of God for their freedom, knowing that a better day would come. Many Christians were burnt, tortured and went through just as heinous crimes as we are seeing today but still they placed their trust in God.

If only it were as black and white as you suggest

Stay blessed
Dave :clap:
 
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Job_38

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Could we please stay on subject. Because this is extremely bad for a real discussion.


Plan, goverments are here for Gods Ministers of Justice. Romans (i think 12 or 13) says so. They are to do what they must for the protection of the 'good' people and the justice against evil.

Now, I had to ask where is the Christian love? Well, its from the Christians. It can be from the church mission group or the soldier who gives his rations to the people. God uses those wherever and whenever.
 
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chickenman

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Lastly, we are called to submit before our leadership, and that the leadership we have is either placed or allowed by God. He has control over all. God put Bush in office, just like He put Regan, Carter, and Washington in office. Just like how He put David in office over Israel. It is through God either creating or allowing the authority that we have the leadership we have.

did he put saddam in a position of leadership?

how about the pope?

what about sloberdan milosevic?

how about hitler?

stalin?

tiberius?

nero?
 
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Doctrine1st

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Today at 01:30 AM Job_38 said this in Post #6

Plan, goverments are here for Gods Ministers of Justice. Romans (i think 12 or 13) says so. They are to do what they must for the protection of the 'good' people and the justice against evil.&nbsp;


Hmm....now why would Paul make this statement to the Romans? and I suppose this would have to apply to "Bloody Mary" in the way she handled the protestants too, she's adminstering God's justice?

There are no Governments of Government officials doing the will of God, and I sure hope there aren't any, such as Bush, who think they are. Didn't Bin Laden and all those who crash the planes in the towers think the same thing, they are doing the will of God? That's a slippery slope and I surely hope they can keep the business of the Government separate from their faith, as it is, I'm not to keen on the ideal of someone who thinks that the Book of Revelations is real and has the keys to the nukes a good thing.
 
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Doctrine1st

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