Hydoxychlorquinine does not appear to be an answer:

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ada Lovelace

Grateful to scientists and all health care workers
Supporter
Jun 20, 2014
5,316
9,297
California
✟1,002,256.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Family of New York woman blames hydroxychloroquine combo for fatal heart attack

Unpacking this tragedy is dismaying because it contains so many of the fears that have been frequently articulated by scientists, medical organizations, physicians, pharmacologists, and also frequently dismissed.

A New York woman with coronavirus symptoms died last week after being prescribed a drug cocktail with known cardiac side effects, and family members say she was not tested for COVID-19 or for heart problems before receiving the medication.

The family’s experience suggests that at least some physicians are prescribing hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin — drugs President Donald Trump has promoted to treat the coronavirus — outside of hospital settings, underscoring why major medical organizations including the American Heart Association have issued warnings about the drug’s potential to trigger heart arrhythmia in some patients.

She was prescribed the medications after a phone consultation with her doctor, and was not administered a COVID-19 test. Her family said they were "handed over like cookies."

The major worry is that she's not a unique case.

Last month an ardent Trump supporter on here was the first to have made me aware of another physician in NY, in an insular Hasidic community, proudly claiming that he had treated hundreds of patients with HDQ, with no hospitalizations. I showed him the formal rebuke letter from his own community's health commission, synagogue, other local physicians, and leaders who described his claims as fabrications, and ones that were detrimental to that community, so they pleaded with him to stop. This was, as was expected, angrily swatted away as just being "anti-Trump." Soon this doctor gained a cult-like following, the hero of right-wing sites and appearing on Fox News lavishly praising Trump in between gushing about HDQ being a "gift from God." Rudy Guilliani Tweeted that he was up to nearly 700 patients, all successfully treated, and no hospitalizations. Yet there was no evidence provided of those claims -
the doctor has published no data, described no study design, and reported no analysis, so it's all based on his word, which has been called into disrepute by those who know him. He only practices by telemedicine since he's self-isolating at home due to being in remission for lung cancer, so as with this woman he's not performing an adequate physical exam first. If he actually had that many patients, on his own, in that short of a time frame, it would be virtually impossible to get a detailed medical history or to do an adequate follow-up. He's stated nonchalantly that the majority of the patients prescribed this medication for COVID-19 had not been tested for COVID-19. This area has the largest percentage of people living below the poverty line in the United States, making it far less likely that anyone who did need to be hospitalized would be considering that many could fear expenses.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
38,653
12,106
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟622,944.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
While hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine seem to be promising, it was simply irresponsible to promote them as panaceas for COVID-19.

Good thing Trump never did that. He simply said that they looked promising and that he was hopeful about them.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
38,653
12,106
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟622,944.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Last month an ardent Trump supporter on here was the first to have made me aware of another physician in NY, in an insular Hasidic community, proudly claiming that he had treated hundreds of patients with HDQ, with no hospitalizations. I showed him the formal rebuke letter from his own community's health commission, synagogue, other local physicians, and leaders who described his claims as fabrications, and ones that were detrimental to that community, so they pleaded with him to stop. This was, as was expected, angrily swatted away as just being "anti-Trump."

Since then, there have been many other cases you may label as "anecdotal" where people have been treated successfully. As a result, the drug is being used very widely now.

"The report cited a local newspaper that said Raoult showed Macron the result of a study that showed a 91 percent success rate when the drug was used on 1,061 patients."
Macron faces calls to allow wider use hydroxychloroquine in coronavirus fight: report
 
Upvote 0

sfs

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2003
10,679
7,745
64
Massachusetts
✟339,555.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Since then, there have been many other cases you may label as "anecdotal" where people have been treated successfully. As a result, the drug is being used very widely now.
There have also been small clinical trials that didn't find a benefit, and one clinical trial that was stopped because it seemed to be killing patients. The last time I talked to an infectious disease physician (which was yesterday? day before?), he said they were still giving HCQ in the hospitals he's affiliated with, but without any belief that it was doing any good. (And they'd stopped giving azithromycin, since giving two cardio-toxic drugs in combination seemed like a really bad idea.)
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Cimorene
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,474
18,454
Orlando, Florida
✟1,249,390.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
Good thing Trump never did that. He simply said that they looked promising and that he was hopeful about them.

His promotion of the drugs portrayed them as effective and safe, and that has yet to be proven scientifically.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Cimorene
Upvote 0

Cimorene

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 7, 2016
6,262
6,018
Toronto
✟246,655.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
Since then, there have been many other cases you may label as "anecdotal" where people have been treated successfully. As a result, the drug is being used very widely now.

"The report cited a local newspaper that said Raoult showed Macron the result of a study that showed a 91 percent success rate when the drug was used on 1,061 patients."
Macron faces calls to allow wider use hydroxychloroquine in coronavirus fight: report

Did you not see the colour of Ella's name b4 you quoted her? She had her account here closed. She's taking 5 classes this quarter all pertaining to the pandemic + she helped invent a coronavirus resources app + started the Zoomers for Boomers movement + is helping her sisters w their schooling bc their parents are drs. So she's mega busy!!!!!!!! She feels this compulsion when ppl post misinformation to her to reply in depth to them. She went a step more than I did bc she thought that if her name was in that colour ppl would know she was gone & wouldn't still be quoting her, knowing she couldn't reply. She can't even see the stuff u post bc they're not visible to her but her class mate noted your post bc she had linked this thread. You're totally not helping your case like you think you are.

There have been tons of unproven CLAIMS about HDQ. Like Rudy's totally ridiculous claim on Twitter about a dr. in NY treating almost 700 patients w it w/o hospitalizations. The dr has shown no data to back anything up & so it's only based on his word that he did that & his word is totally in question bc his own town formally rebuked him for fabricating stuff. It also just defies reason. I mean the dude claims he personally treated 700 patients, in that short of a time period? He is in remission for lung cancer & practices out of his house, by telemedicine. The ppl weren't even given a physical much less a test to confirm if they even had COVID-19. The area he's practicing in is the poorest in the US so if ppl do have complications or die they're less likely to go to a hospital bc of the expenses.

A family in NY has blamed the combination of meds Trump has hyped like crazy for causing their mom's heart attack that killed her. Her dr did what the other did, prescribing it over the phone w/o having done any physical exam. Just totally flippant, like "what have you got to lose?" So yeah, she lost her life. That's what she had to lose!!!! It's long been known that that combination can cause heart irregularity & death.

Clinical trials in Sweden & France for HDQ were abruptly ended bc of the side effects, the drs in both countries said the potential remedy cannot be worse than the disease itself.

I read what you posted. So you didn't help your case at all. You backed up Ella's. Macron didn't do a Donald!! He didn't endorse the med! The dr Macron met w is the majorly controversial one (predating the pandemic) who did the tiny study that got lied about like crazy that Ella had already explained in depth to you b4. That tiny phase 1 study had been posted in a journal, scientists around the world lambasted it for its severe flaws. The dr attaches his name to like 3000 studies a yr to get attn btw. The journal then said it didn't meet their standards.

So this is from your source
Last week, doctors in Paris reported that they tried to replicate the results of the Marseille study and failed.

The dr known to flamboyant made the claims, Macron then said the claims would be investigated.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Neal82
Upvote 0

46AND2

Forty six and two are just ahead of me...
Sep 5, 2012
5,807
2,210
Vancouver, WA
✟102,103.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Did you not see the colour of Ella's name b4 you quoted her? She had her account here closed. She's taking 5 classes this quarter all pertaining to the pandemic + she helped invent a coronavirus resources app + started the Zoomers for Boomers movement + is helping her sisters w their schooling bc their parents are drs. So she's mega busy!!!!!!!! She feels this compulsion when ppl post misinformation to her to reply in depth to them. She went a step more than I did bc she thought that if her name was in that colour ppl would know she was gone & wouldn't still be quoting her, knowing she couldn't reply. She can't even see the stuff u post bc they're not visible to her but her class mate noted your post bc she had linked this thread. You're totally not helping your case like you think you are.

There have been tons of unproven CLAIMS about HDQ. Like Rudy's totally ridiculous claim on Twitter about a dr. in NY treating almost 700 patients w it w/o hospitalizations. The dr has shown no data to back anything up & so it's only based on his word that he did that & his word is totally in question bc his own town formally rebuked him for fabricating stuff. It also just defies reason. I mean the dude claims he personally treated 700 patients, in that short of a time period? He is in remission for lung cancer & practices out of his house, by telemedicine. The ppl weren't even given a physical much less a test to confirm if they even had COVID-19. The area he's practicing in is the poorest in the US so if ppl do have complications or die they're less likely to go to a hospital bc of the expenses.

A family in NY has blamed the combination of meds Trump has hyped like crazy for causing their mom's heart attack that killed her. Her dr did what the other did, prescribing it over the phone w/o having done any physical exam. Just totally flippant, like "what have you got to lose?" So yeah, she lost her life. That's what she had to lose!!!! It's long been known that that combination can cause heart irregularity & death.

Clinical trials in Sweden & France for HDQ were abruptly ended bc of the side effects, the drs in both countries said the potential remedy cannot be worse than the disease itself.

I read what you posted. So you didn't help your case at all. You backed up Ella's. Macron didn't do a Donald!! He didn't endorse the med! The dr Macron met w is the majorly controversial one (predating the pandemic) who did the tiny study that got lied about like crazy that Ella had already explained in depth to you b4. That tiny phase 1 study had been posted in a journal, scientists around the world lambasted it for its severe flaws. The dr attaches his name to like 3000 studies a yr to get attn btw. The journal then said it didn't meet their standards.

So this is from your source
Last week, doctors in Paris reported that they tried to replicate the results of the Marseille study and failed.

The dr known to flamboyant made the claims, Macron then said the claims would be investigated.

I've been here for more than a decade, and I didn't know that the color of one's name had any significance. I've never given it a thought. Doubt most people put any thought into it when replying to someone, if the 15+ year old necro-thread revivals are any indication. Agree with the rest of your post, though.
 
Upvote 0

Occams Barber

Newbie
Supporter
Aug 8, 2012
6,286
7,421
75
Northern NSW
✟981,566.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Divorced
I've been here for more than a decade, and I didn't know that the color of one's name had any significance. I've never given it a thought. Doubt most people put any thought into it when replying to someone, if the 15+ year old necro-thread revivals are any indication. Agree with the rest of your post, though.

If you notice my name you'll see it's a lovely Green colour. That means I'm special. :)

Your name, on the other hand, is a sort of non-descript
Bluey Black. That means you're pretty ordinary. :(

OB
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

46AND2

Forty six and two are just ahead of me...
Sep 5, 2012
5,807
2,210
Vancouver, WA
✟102,103.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
If you notice my name you'll see it's a lovely Green colour. That means I'm special. :)

Your name, on the other hand, is a sort of non-descript
Bluey Black. That means you're pretty ordinary. :(

OB

Makes sense. I'm extraordinarily ordinary.
 
Upvote 0

Bobber

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2004
6,584
3,076
✟213,723.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Since then, there have been many other cases you may label as "anecdotal" where people have been treated successfully. As a result, the drug is being used very widely now.

"The report cited a local newspaper that said Raoult showed Macron the result of a study that showed a 91 percent success rate when the drug was used on 1,061 patients."
Macron faces calls to allow wider use hydroxychloroquine in coronavirus fight: report

What's so sad to me is that there seems to be so many that just don't want it to be true....because Trump talked about it as being potentially positive. And at this stage even for the many cases where people claimed it saved their lives and more probably along the way they'll still marginalize it as being coincidental.

That they probably would have got better without taking it. All I know is that if I was bad off with the disease I'd probably want to have it prescribed. I've seen enough cases now which suggest to me it is having a positive effect. That's not to say it would with everybody for that's how it usually goes with drugs. I have a different physical problem (nothing to with this virus) but a drug a lot of people take that works doesn't for me....but a different type of drug does. Thus that might be true of hydroxychloroquine as well.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Aldebaran
Upvote 0

Cimorene

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 7, 2016
6,262
6,018
Toronto
✟246,655.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
I've been here for more than a decade, and I didn't know that the color of one's name had any significance. I've never given it a thought. Doubt most people put any thought into it when replying to someone, if the 15+ year old necro-thread revivals are any indication. Agree with the rest of your post, though.

Lol ohhhh thx for letting me know that, bc I always notice. We went an online school together, everybody's name was in a colour for a classification so everybody noticed the colours always. That's kinda bummer bc I'm the 1 who suggested having her account closed officially bc she feels this like moral sense of duty to reply when ppl quote her & post public health misinformation that is harmful. Like she's complicit if she doesn't refute it & it's written specifically to her. Public health misinformation is her whole entire focus so I mean she takes this way more seriously than most ppl ever would. I thought if ppl saw her name that colour it'd be clear it wasn't bc she didn't have a response or just didn't care enough to correct it, just that she was no longer here. But clearly I thought wrong!!! Glad you agree w the rest of the post tho!
 
Upvote 0

Cimorene

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 7, 2016
6,262
6,018
Toronto
✟246,655.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
If you notice my name you'll see it's a lovely Green colour. That means I'm special. :)

Your name, on the other hand, is a sort of non-descript
Bluey Black. That means you're pretty ordinary. :(

OB

Somebody gifted me & Ella the green accounts. I do like the colour.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
38,653
12,106
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟622,944.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
His promotion of the drugs portrayed them as effective and safe, and that has yet to be proven scientifically.

The drug has been approved and in use since the 1940s. I'd say it has been scientifically proven safe and effective if it's been in use for that long.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Zanting
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,474
18,454
Orlando, Florida
✟1,249,390.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
The drug has been approved and in use since the 1940s. I'd say it has been scientifically proven safe and effective if it's been in use for that long.

It's approved for treatment of malaria, not coronaviruses.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
38,653
12,106
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟622,944.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Did you not see the colour of Ella's name b4 you quoted her? She had her account here closed. She's taking 5 classes this quarter all pertaining to the pandemic + she helped invent a coronavirus resources app + started the Zoomers for Boomers movement + is helping her sisters w their schooling bc their parents are drs. So she's mega busy!!!!!!!! She feels this compulsion when ppl post misinformation to her to reply in depth to them. She went a step more than I did bc she thought that if her name was in that colour ppl would know she was gone & wouldn't still be quoting her, knowing she couldn't reply. She can't even see the stuff u post bc they're not visible to her but her class mate noted your post bc she had linked this thread. You're totally not helping your case like you think you are.

I wasn't aware that she closed her account. I'm not on here as often myself anymore because of much more limited internet access, so I don't have the time to investigate members' status before posting a reply. I'll keep it in mind though and not send her any replies in the future. Thanks for letting me know.

A family in NY has blamed the combination of meds Trump has hyped like crazy for causing their mom's heart attack that killed her. Her dr did what the other did, prescribing it over the phone w/o having done any physical exam. Just totally flippant, like "what have you got to lose?" So yeah, she lost her life. That's what she had to lose!!!! It's long been known that that combination can cause heart irregularity & death.

A family that has lost someone and is grieving and looking to assign blame is not a source that I would go to for information on what I should do if I got the virus. It's an appeal to emotion rather than facts to bring up who a grieving family blames for their loss.

I read what you posted. So you didn't help your case at all. You backed up Ella's. Macron didn't do a Donald!! He didn't endorse the med! The dr Macron met w is the majorly controversial one (predating the pandemic) who did the tiny study that got lied about like crazy that Ella had already explained in depth to you b4. That tiny phase 1 study had been posted in a journal, scientists around the world lambasted it for its severe flaws. The dr attaches his name to like 3000 studies a yr to get attn btw. The journal then said it didn't meet their standards.

Trump didn't "endorse" anything! He simply mentioned that something was seen as promising and that he was hopeful about it. We hear Andrew Cuomo doing the same thing when he has hopes about something. He expresses his own opinions as well. Let's quit focusing on who says what and looking to blame people for what's going on though. It's a virus that's the enemy here, not people.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
38,653
12,106
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟622,944.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
It's approved for treatment of malaria, not coronaviruses.

But the drug itself has been approved as effective and safe (by the government). That's the point. People are making it out to be something new that just came out on the market and that nobody knows anything about.
 
Upvote 0

Zanting

not so new
Mar 15, 2012
2,366
464
✟47,296.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It's approved for treatment of malaria, not coronaviruses.


Know your facts first...it's used to treat Lupus (for over 42 years by Dr Daniel Wallace), Rheumatoid arthritis, Lyme Disease and it's been used to treat viruses by the Chinese for years...so no...we don't need more testing...we need less road blocks from the left downplaying and ignoring the sound science and real time life saving effects of HCQ+.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Bobber
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
38,653
12,106
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟622,944.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Somebody gifted me & Ella the green accounts. I do like the colour.

My name's color is different than yours. I wonder what is different about our status.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.