108 years ago today...

jayem · Apr 15, 2020

RMS Titanic sunk in the North Atlantic ca. 400 miles south of Newfoundland. 712 people made it into lifeboats. An estimated 1,517 people went down with the ship.

This is not a forum for politics. But I just can’t help thinking that this could be a metaphor for our current government. We may be passengers on a fatally flawed ship of state, steaming recklessly on a collision course to disaster.

public hermit · Apr 15, 2020

Just so long as the band is playing, we're good.

Musicians of the RMS Titanic - Wikipedia

Phronema · Apr 15, 2020

public hermit said:
Just so long as the band is playing, we're good.

Musicians of the RMS Titanic - Wikipedia

I know it's undetermined whether or not this song was actually playing at all on the Titanic that night, but it always reminds me of the Titanic because of the movie. This is my favorite rendition of the song as well.

Phronema · Apr 15, 2020

jayem said:
This is not a forum for politics. But I just can’t help thinking that this could be a metaphor for our current government. We may be passengers on a fatally flawed ship of state, steaming recklessly on a collision course to disaster.

You're likely correct, but I don't think it matters which political party is in power personally. Either way we're heading toward the iceberg. Just my two cents.

Ada Lovelace · Apr 15, 2020

jayem said:
RMS Titanic sunk in the North Atlantic ca. 400 miles south of Newfoundland. 712 people made it into lifeboats. An estimated 1,517 people went down with the ship.

This is not a forum for politics. But I just can’t help thinking that this could be a metaphor for our current government. We may be passengers on a fatally flawed ship of state, steaming recklessly on a collision course to disaster.

I've been thinking of this the past few days and the various metaphors and lessons for the current crisis we are enduring. The Titanic received the first ice warnings on the 14th of April, and struck the iceberg nearing midnight. The mighty, magnificent, "unsinkable" ship sank three hours into the following day, in the cold, dark predawn hours. Many of the deaths could have been prevented with prudent and efficient preparation - proper lifeboats, training, and provisions. Even though there were many souls on the Titanic, I feel there would have been the terror of loneliness in their deaths as the water overcame and separated them, isolating them in their misery.

Unheeded warnings, then like now, are always at the heart of tragedies where leaders combine a lethal blend of arrogance, avarice, and ignorance.

Elliewaves · Apr 15, 2020

Well when you don't have lifeboats for most; most are going to die. Somehow there's a lesson about really being pro-life so you prepare to save as many souls as possible over money, in all that.

Ada Lovelace · Apr 15, 2020

A friend posted this on Twitter:

[Donald Trump, Titanic captain]

1. There is no iceberg
2. We won’t hit the iceberg
3. We barely touched the iceberg
4. Nobody could’ve seen the iceberg
5. These deaths mean my plan worked
6. I’m the best captain ever

redleghunter · Apr 15, 2020

Where is China in these metaphors?

Is the Titanic “government” in the metaphor and misplaced trust in the god of government as the end all be all the lesson when government meets its “iceberg” which is unmovable? The arrogance of people and government thinking they can even change the course of nature which they have no control over? Worshipping the things that are made and not the Creator?

Just maybe the Titanic taught us this.

The Titanic also teaches us a lesson. There will never be enough lifeboats.

redleghunter · Apr 15, 2020

Stanfordella said:
A friend posted this on Twitter:

[Donald Trump, Titanic captain]

1. There is no iceberg
2. We won’t hit the iceberg
3. We barely touched the iceberg
4. Nobody could’ve seen the iceberg
5. These deaths mean my plan worked
6. I’m the best captain ever

How do you explain Italy? Did they have a different iceberg? I ask because this is a global pandemic which was not unleashed on the world from the United States.

Or did Trump and Americans chew on some nasty bats in Wuhan?

redleghunter · Apr 15, 2020

jayem said:
This is not a forum for politics. But I just can’t help thinking that this could be a metaphor for our current government. We may be passengers on a fatally flawed ship of state, steaming recklessly on a collision course to disaster.

Actually the metaphor is the iceberg is globalism and the ship going down and people dying was the thirst for globalism in that everyone wanted cheap goods and cheap labor and the place where they found it was China. And in that country many live still in poverty and eat nasty bats got sick and infected the entire world.

jayem · Apr 15, 2020

redleghunter said:
Actually the metaphor is the iceberg is globalism and the ship going down and people dying was the thirst for globalism in that everyone wanted cheap goods and cheap labor and the place where they found it was China. And in that country many live still in poverty and eat nasty bats got sick and infected the entire world.

Maybe. But it’s also a metaphor for hubris. A prideful and arrogant ship’s captain who disregards, or minimizes warnings of danger ahead.

keith99 · Apr 15, 2020

public hermit said:
Just so long as the band is playing, we're good.

Musicians of the RMS Titanic - Wikipedia

The band played on with a recent deadly disease. Of course some did not care and others seemed to actively want people to die because it primarily infected gay men and drug users.

redleghunter · Apr 15, 2020

jayem said:
Maybe. But it’s also a metaphor for hubris. A prideful and arrogant ship’s captain who disregards, or minimizes warnings of danger ahead.

Yes mankind’s first transgression and continues to be. Along with that first transgression came the blame game as Adam told God it was not him but the woman He gave him.

public hermit · Apr 15, 2020

keith99 said:
The band played on with a recent deadly disease. Of course some did not care and others seemed to actively want people to die because it primarily infected gay men and drug users.

Right. It was sarcasm in the form of a metaphor, relevant to a historical event. I agree with you. Please, don't wait until the metaphorical band quits playing to do the right thing.

durangodawood · Apr 16, 2020

redleghunter said:
....The Titanic also teaches us a lesson. There will never be enough lifeboats.

Thats the lesson?

I mean even in the non-metaphorical sense, cruise ships now have lifeboats/rafts sufficient to accommodate everyone on board.

Elliewaves · Apr 16, 2020

The actual lesson was to have lifeboats for all passengers because otherwise people will die needlessly. After the Titanic new regulations were made so that ships had to have safety accommodations in place for all aboard. And not to lock the 3rd class passengers below deck so they would drown and not take up precious lifeboat space. Again, people that are really pro-life WANT people to live over saving bucks and understand that providing lifeboats save people and don't destroy families and lives so that people are healthy contributors to society. So in the long run it is advantageous to keep people alive, plus it's pro-life.

Cimorene · Apr 17, 2020

redleghunter said:
How do you explain Italy? Did they have a different iceberg? I ask because this is a global pandemic which was not unleashed on the world from the United States.

Or did Trump and Americans chew on some nasty bats in Wuhan?

Stanfordella is my friend IRL. She had her account closed. Your posts aren't visible to either of us if we're logged in so that's why u don't get replies, it's not bc of not having an answer to a q asked or anything, fyi. She wrote an essay for her blog about the lessons to be learned from the Titanic & talked about Italy in it. It's way detailed but I'll give the basics from it.

So this is what Italy should have been for the US:

It should have been the push to immediately take aggressive action in Feb. To run to put into place a plan. A plan that should have been in place way b4 then for a global pandemic bc there were multiple high-level detailed warnings given to Donald Trump. China & Italy made major mistakes - denialism, muzzling public health officials, not kicking into high gear. Trump failed to learn from them even when the history lessons were being written right in front of him.

The biggest advantage the US had was the timeline of the progression of the outbreak but that adv. was totally squandered. It was evident in Feb. the US would be hit hard but the actions taken then didn't reflect that. Just look through posts from Trump's base in Jan-Feb that reflect his rhetoric. Read some of his hundreds of tweets about tons of other stuff & the like 20 about coronavirus in Feb.

The US should have already had the infrastructure in place for an adequate pandemic response just like the Titanic should have had their life boats in order! She wrote a paper on this w Gen HR McMaster, he's a prof at her school, on decisions made way b4 the pandemic that capsized readiness for it. She had chosen that topic last Nov. Ironically. She wrote about it here even, back then.

In contrast, Taiwan, S. Korea, Germany, Iceland, they saw the iceberg & they immediately rushed into action. They had a sufficient number of life boats in good order, life preservation vests, drills. So they got ppl onto the boats in time to save way more ppl than the US. While Trump saw the iceberg then decided to go to one of his golf courses for another round.

redleghunter · Apr 18, 2020

Cimorene said:
Stanfordella is my friend IRL. She had her account closed. Your posts aren't visible to either of us if we're logged in so that's why u don't get replies, it's not bc of not having an answer to a q asked or anything, fyi. She wrote an essay for her blog about the lessons to be learned from the Titanic & talked about Italy in it. It's way detailed but I'll give the basics from it.

So this is what Italy should have been for the US:

It should have been the push to immediately take aggressive action in Feb. To run to put into place a plan. A plan that should have been in place way b4 then for a global pandemic bc there were multiple high-level detailed warnings given to Donald Trump. China & Italy made major mistakes - denialism, muzzling public health officials, not kicking into high gear. Trump failed to learn from them even when the history lessons were being written right in front of him.

The biggest advantage the US had was the timeline of the progression of the outbreak but that adv. was totally squandered. It was evident in Feb. the US would be hit hard but the actions taken then didn't reflect that. Just look through posts from Trump's base in Jan-Feb that reflect his rhetoric. Read some of his hundreds of tweets about tons of other stuff & the like 20 about coronavirus in Feb.

The US should have already had the infrastructure in place for an adequate pandemic response just like the Titanic should have had their life boats in order! She wrote a paper on this w Gen HR McMaster, he's a prof at her school, on decisions made way b4 the pandemic that capsized readiness for it. She had chosen that topic last Nov. Ironically. She wrote about it here even, back then.

In contrast, Taiwan, S. Korea, Germany, Iceland, they saw the iceberg & they immediately rushed into action. They had a sufficient number of life boats in good order, life preservation vests, drills. So they got ppl onto the boats in time to save way more ppl than the US. While Trump saw the iceberg then decided to go to one of his golf courses for another round.

Your solution was to look at this in retrospect. Not to mention to select some facts and not consider many others. These are broad generalizations we see in Biden talking points.

Cimorene · Apr 18, 2020

redleghunter said:
Your solution was to look at this in retrospect. Not to mention to select some facts and not consider many others. These are broad generalizations we see in Biden talking points.

The irony of this is next level, dude.

So totally reenforces Ella's post in #7. This would be like if the captain of the Titanic had survived & his solution for defending his actions was to point to other ships that also hit icebergs. To try to divert blame away from his own actions that contributed to the # of passenger deaths on his own ship.
It's foolish to not be retrospective. Especially when things are still ongoing & if you fail to learn from mistakes already made & from the decisions that got things right, problems will be compounded.

Lol, as for Biden, you clearly spend way more of your time listening to him than I am right now if that is what you think. But I'm happy to know that! I don't live in America. We're all forced to have to deal w Trump but I don't otherwise bother w politicians atm. Ella has gotten her info from experts not any politician.

redleghunter · Apr 18, 2020

Cimorene said:
The irony of this is next level, dude.

So totally reenforces Ella's post in #7. This would be like if the captain of the Titanic had survived & his solution for defending his actions was to point to other ships that also hit icebergs. To try to divert blame away from his own actions that contributed to the # of passenger deaths on his own ship.
It's foolish to not be retrospective. Especially when things are still ongoing & if you fail to learn from mistakes already made & from the decisions that got things right, problems will be compounded.

Lol, as for Biden, you clearly spend way more of your time listening to him than I am right now if that is what you think. But I'm happy to know that! I don't live in America. We're all forced to have to deal w Trump but I don't otherwise bother w politicians atm. Ella has gotten her info from experts not any politician.

The metaphor is getting old. Although economic globalism centered in China fits best. The very nation everyone including the US since the late 90s put all their manufacturing capacities has come back to bite the West and Japan.

Japan knows this and used their stimulus money to get their companies out of China back to Japan and other locations. We will follow suit and if the EU is smart will do the same. UK is already exploring such a move as well. The reactions point to globalism centered in Communist China has consequences. Especially when the virus came from China.

I understand what you snipped by your friend was a “gist” so will let the generality of it alone for now.

Your friend has a great mentor in HR. He’s a really good guy.

108 years ago today...

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