God is more willing to save sinners than sinners are to be saved

God is more willing to save sinners than sinners are to be saved

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JIMINZ

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Yes or no.
Pertinent Scriptures Luke 14:15-24
I say yes.


John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

If a Sinner is not actively being Drawn by God, then the sinner is not seeking Him.
 
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GodsGrace101

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John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

If a Sinner is not actively being Drawn by God, then the sinner is not seeking Him.
What does DRAW mean?
 
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JIMINZ

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What does DRAW mean?

GREEK DRAW:
G1670
ἑλκύω, ἕλκω
helkuō helkō
hel-koo'-o, hel'-ko
Probably akin to G138; to drag (literally or figuratively): - draw.

G138
αἱρέομαι
aihreomai
hahee-reh'-om-ahee
Probably akin to G142; to take for oneself, that is, to prefer. Some of the forms are borrowed from a cognate (ἕλλομαι hellomai, hel-lom-ahee) which is otherwise obsolete: - choose.

G142
αἴρω
airō
ah'ee-ro
A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [H5375]) to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

HEBREW DRAW:
H5375
נָסָה נָשָׂא
nâśâ' nâsâh
naw-saw', naw-saw'
A primitive root; to lift, in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively, absolutely and relatively: - accept, advance, arise, (able to, [armour], suffer to) bear (-er, up), bring (forth), burn, carry (away), cast, contain, desire, ease, exact, exalt (self), extol, fetch, forgive, furnish, further, give, go on, help, high, hold up, honourable (+ man), lade, lay, lift (self) up, lofty, marry, magnify, X needs, obtain, pardon, raise (up), receive, regard, respect, set (up), spare, stir up, + swear, take (away, up), X utterly, wear, yield.
 
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GodsGrace101

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GREEK DRAW:
G1670
ἑλκύω, ἕλκω
helkuō helkō
hel-koo'-o, hel'-ko
Probably akin to G138; to drag (literally or figuratively): - draw.

G138
αἱρέομαι
aihreomai
hahee-reh'-om-ahee
Probably akin to G142; to take for oneself, that is, to prefer. Some of the forms are borrowed from a cognate (ἕλλομαι hellomai, hel-lom-ahee) which is otherwise obsolete: - choose.

G142
αἴρω
airō
ah'ee-ro
A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [H5375]) to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

HEBREW DRAW:
H5375
נָסָה נָשָׂא
nâśâ' nâsâh
naw-saw', naw-saw'
A primitive root; to lift, in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively, absolutely and relatively: - accept, advance, arise, (able to, [armour], suffer to) bear (-er, up), bring (forth), burn, carry (away), cast, contain, desire, ease, exact, exalt (self), extol, fetch, forgive, furnish, further, give, go on, help, high, hold up, honourable (+ man), lade, lay, lift (self) up, lofty, marry, magnify, X needs, obtain, pardon, raise (up), receive, regard, respect, set (up), spare, stir up, + swear, take (away, up), X utterly, wear, yield.
Very nice J.
So what does DRAW mean in John 6:44?
 
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redleghunter

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John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

If a Sinner is not actively being Drawn by God, then the sinner is not seeking Him.
Excellent input. But I thought, based on many threads here, God draws everyone.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Well we should all agree the Gospel is involved here.
I don't understand your reply....
It's very important, I feel, to understand what the word draw means in different verses.

It does not always mean the same.
Some take the word DRAW to mean DRAG.
Sometimes it does mean DRAG...for instance in
Acts 16:19
Acts 21:30
James 2:6

Sometimes it means to PULL:
John 21:6
John 21:11

To UNSHEATH:
John 18:10


To ATTRACT:
John 6:44
John 12:32


The verse in question is
John 6:44 where the word DRAW means to attract.

I'd like to hear what the other member believes this word means in this verse....and do you believe it means to attract?
 
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GodsGrace101

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Seems the clarity of the language is if the Father does not act in drawing, it does not just happen.
Agreed.
The Father draws EVERYONE to Himself.

Romans 1:19-20
19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.


The Father wishes all men to be saved. Unfortunately not all men WANT to be saved:

1 Timothy 2:4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

So, yes, I'd have to agree that the Father does draw man to Himself.

 
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Hammster

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I don't understand your reply....
It's very important, I feel, to understand what the word draw means in different verses.

It does not always mean the same.
Some take the word DRAW to mean DRAG.
Sometimes it does mean DRAG...for instance in
Acts 16:19
Acts 21:30
James 2:6

Sometimes it means to PULL:
John 21:6
John 21:11

To UNSHEATH:
John 18:10


To ATTRACT:
John 6:44
John 12:32


The verse in question is
John 6:44 where the word DRAW means to attract.

I'd like to hear what the other member believes this word means in this verse....and do you believe it means to attract?
I think you are reading your own definition into it if you think it means attract.
 
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GodsGrace101

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I think you are reading your own definition into it if you think it means attract.
These definitions come from foreign language bibles that are similar to the Greek and which more accurately translate each word.

I'm at a loss to understand why the words I posted are not used. If one takes the time to go through the different Strong's meanings,,,it does how that the word DRAW has different meanings for different verses...I wish it had been made easier for the person reading the verse as the word's meaning seems very important to me.

I believe God wishes that all would accept His salvation, but, unfortunately, Jesus said the gate to salvation is narrow and few there be that find it,,,and the way to perdition is wide and many will follow that road. And more so as we reach the end ( I think). It does seem that Christianity is being abandoned by many ---
 
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Hammster

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These definitions come from foreign language bibles that are similar to the Greek and which more accurately translate each word.

I'm at a loss to understand why the words I posted are not used. If one takes the time to go through the different Strong's meanings,,,it does how that the word DRAW has different meanings for different verses...I wish it had been made easier for the person reading the verse as the word's meaning seems very important to me.

I believe God wishes that all would accept His salvation, but, unfortunately, Jesus said the gate to salvation is narrow and few there be that find it,,,and the way to perdition is wide and many will follow that road. And more so as we reach the end ( I think). It does seem that Christianity is being abandoned by many ---
The issue is, does the word ever mean attract? And as far as I can tell, no it doesn’t. But even if it did, the context still limits who is “attracted”.


No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
— John 6:44
What happens to those who are drawn? They are raised up.
 
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GodsGrace101

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The issue is, does the word ever mean attract? And as far as I can tell, no it doesn’t. But even if it did, the context still limits who is “attracted”.


No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
— John 6:44
What happens to those who are drawn? They are raised up.
I agree.
About the Father drawing...
But how does the context limit who is attracted?
Doesn't the Father draw everyone?
Romans 1:19-20 states that God has always drawn all man to Himself...it even states that this causes man to be without excuse and responsible for his rejection of God (if he does indeed reject God).

Isn't this what Romans 1 means to you?
Where in scripture does it state that God limits who He attracts?

I'm very interested in your reply but must go now.
2:00 am here.

Good night Hammster...
Hope to continue tomorrow.
 
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Hammster

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I agree.
About the Father drawing...
But how does the context limit who is attracted?
Doesn't the Father draw everyone?
Romans 1:19-20 states that God has always drawn all man to Himself...it even states that this causes man to be without excuse and responsible for his rejection of God (if he does indeed reject God).

Isn't this what Romans 1 means to you?
Where in scripture does it state that God limits who He attracts?

I'm very interested in your reply but must go now.
2:00 am here.

Good night Hammster...
Hope to continue tomorrow.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
— Romans 1:18-20

There’s nothing in that passage about drawing. All he’s saying is that the reality of God is evident through His creation.
 
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JIMINZ

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Very nice J.
So what does DRAW mean in John 6:44?

The word DRAW in 6:44 is the word which is being Defined not any other usage of the word.

The only other places where this particular word Draw is used in in which are all the same Definition.

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will (DRAW) all men unto me.

John 21:6
And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to (DRAW) it for the multitude of fishes.

Jas. 2:6
But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and (DRAW) you before the judgment seats?

Meaning the same as when GOD Draws us to Himself.

There are 7 other separate Definitions for the word DRAW which are not the same as this one.
 
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JIMINZ

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Excellent input. But I thought, based on many threads here, God draws everyone.

What would give you that Impression, other persons opinions on the subject?

Well here is not only my opinion but my Interpretation of what the Bible teaches overall.....I can't give you any specifics because it doesn't say it any clearer than it does in John 6:44.

God Draws the person in, and the person becomes a Believer at that point.

Eph 2:8
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

IMHO God does in fact Draw everyone, but in His own timing for that person, in the order He has determined in Himself.

If God just had a blanket DRAW then everyone would be Saved.
I do not believe a person Drawn can refuse the Drawing and there aren't any second chances, when God Draws, the person comes, because he has been Chosen for Salvation, I do not believe in Predestination in whatever form Calvinist's want to put it except.

Rom. 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
 
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JIMINZ

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I don't understand your reply....
It's very important, I feel, to understand what the word draw means in different verses.

It does not always mean the same.
Some take the word DRAW to mean DRAG.
Sometimes it does mean DRAG...for instance in
Acts 16:19
Acts 21:30
James 2:6

Sometimes it means to PULL:
John 21:6
John 21:11

To UNSHEATH:
John 18:10


To ATTRACT:
John 6:44
John 12:32


The verse in question is
John 6:44 where the word DRAW means to attract.

I'd like to hear what the other member believes this word means in this verse....and do you believe it means to attract?

I do not know where you got the word (ATTRACT) from but my guess would be a secular Dictionary, when the word used comes from the Greek in the Bible, therefore you need to get the direct Definition for the Greek word not the English word, which is what I gave you.

All of the other uses of the Word Draw were other Definitions that is why I only gave you the one from the quoted passage from John 6:44.
 
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