Is the Bible critical to your faith?

Akita Suggagaki

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I have noticed that most atheist arguments against Christianity focus on possible problems in the Bible.

This atheist strategy assumes that the Bible is critical to the faith of most Christians, and I wonder if that assumption is actually true.

What do you believe about the Bible? If some atheist convinces you that the Bible is as fallible as the holy books of other religions would it severely weaken your faith in Christianity? (Fallibility might include shortcomings in historicity, morality, secret knowledge, or whatever.)

I already believe that the Bibleis as fallible as the holy books of other religions and my faith in Christ is as strong as anyone's.
 
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cloudyday2

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"In doubt" is relative to whatever criteria. James and much in Paul and the Old Testament shed light on what is meant by "be one".
Some scholars see the gospel of John to be more fictional than the synoptics - fictional in the events and fictional in the sayings of Jesus.
 
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cloudyday2

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Why would it, when there are more of them who affirm the Real Presence? The mere existence of skeptics at all times in church history doesn't mean much, does it? That's almost like asking why anyone would believe in religion X, considering that there are people who believe in other religions.
I was thinking about the Didache, but the main goal of my question was to understand what was meant by faith coming from the Eucharist. There are different ways to have faith in or from the Eucharist.
 
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hedrick

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Some scholars see the gospel of John to be more fictional than the synoptics - fictional in the events and fictional in the sayings of Jesus.
I use the Synoptics more than John, a pretty typical situation with the mainline. But I think you're going a bit too far. You can make a pretty good case (see the Anchor Bible commentary on John) that its chronology is actually better than the Synoptics. As I see it, John is divided into episodes. They begin with an event or a saying by Jesus. Those are not that different from the Synoptics. However these brief things are followed by long discourses. Nominally Jesus says them, but they look like reflections by the author on the episode. It's very unlikely that Jesus actually spoke the discourses, though the theology is still worth considering. But at the core I think are episodes and brief exchanges that are reasonably plausible. Of course you have the same issue with them as with events in the Synoptics about miracles, but no more so in John.
 
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Halbhh

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I have noticed that most atheist arguments against Christianity focus on possible problems in the Bible.

This atheist strategy assumes that the Bible is critical to the faith of most Christians, and I wonder if that assumption is actually true.

What do you believe about the Bible? If some atheist convinces you that the Bible is as fallible as the holy books of other religions would it severely weaken your faith in Christianity? (Fallibility might include shortcomings in historicity, morality, secret knowledge, or whatever.)

The question in the last paragraph is just like asking --

"If some atheist convinced you the sun doesn't shine light, then would it weaken your confidence in physics?"

.....

Ok. Well. Hmmm.... ...

Here: How would you react to a question like that?
 
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klutedavid

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I have noticed that most atheist arguments against Christianity focus on possible problems in the Bible.

This atheist strategy assumes that the Bible is critical to the faith of most Christians, and I wonder if that assumption is actually true.

What do you believe about the Bible? If some atheist convinces you that the Bible is as fallible as the holy books of other religions would it severely weaken your faith in Christianity? (Fallibility might include shortcomings in historicity, morality, secret knowledge, or whatever.)
I'm rooted in the gospel of Jesus Christ and I don't need many letters at all, in the New Testament to know this gospel.

I could get by on say five or six letters from the New Testament in my Christian life. If I found out that the letter (3 John) was a forgery I would not even blink.

If Genesis was a cut down version of the truth, i.e., it was not created in seven days, I would not even notice an issue.

I interpret the revelation of the Christ as the simple information about the death and resurrection of the Christ, for the forgiveness of sins. Christ enabled the reconciliation of humanity to God.

The Holy Spirit will take care of the rest, with or without the entire Bible.
 
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coffee4u

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What do you believe about the Bible?

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
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Amittai

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...

Part of my problem with Christianity is that it lost key aspects of Jesus' teaching as it moved from his proclamation of the Kingdom and challenge to us to be its agents, into a religion of personal salvation. It very quickly took on a lot of what he disliked in the Pharisees, a problem that persists to this day.

... I worry whether "humanism" can retain the features it inherited from Christianity over the long run, or maintain influence on the overall US culture.

Christian faith is supposed to be about what is joint and common, not corporate. We are not supposed to be a figment of the monolith, but to grow in individual integrity and discernment.

This comes by looking after the integrity of other Christians, protecting the fellow adopted widows and orphans in Father's firm, potentising the fruitfulness of their spiritual gift, helping them gain their crown.

The Pharisees appears in both kinds of tendency.

I share your sadness about the fate of humanism.
 
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faroukfarouk

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2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Great text!

Psalm 119.105 also...
 
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Albion

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I was thinking about the Didache, but the main goal of my question was to understand what was meant by faith coming from the Eucharist. There are different ways to have faith in or from the Eucharist.
Faith coming from the Eucharist?
 
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cloudyday2

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Faith coming from the Eucharist?
For example, a Christian might believe that the Eucharist is about nourishing the soul and faith mystically rather than intellectually. So regular participation in the Eucharist strengthens the Christian's faith in a way that the Christian can't rationally explain but has seemed to be real in experience. There is the saying that I'm sure you have heard "the greatest miracle is guaranteed to happen during the Eucharist whether a person believes it or not" (paraphrasing).
 
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Albion

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For example, a Christian might believe that the Eucharist is about nourishing the soul and faith mystically rather than intellectually. So regular participation in the Eucharist strengthens the Christian's faith in a way that the Christian can't rationally explain but has seemed to be real in experience. There is the saying that I'm sure you have heard "the greatest miracle is guaranteed to happen during the Eucharist whether a person believes it or not" (paraphrasing).
I'm still working on the question I thought was the reason for this thread--

What do you believe about the Bible? If some atheist convinces you that the Bible is as fallible as the holy books of other religions would it severely weaken your faith in Christianity?
 
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cloudyday2

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I'm still working on the question I thought was the reason for this thread--
I was bringing up other things like the Eucharist, because it is my opinion that Christians derive their faith from many places aside from the Bible. Atheists who argue against Christian faith seem to think that finding a flaw or two in the Bible should make a Christian lose faith, and I don't think they realize that the faith has other sources.
 
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hedrick

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I was bringing up other things like the Eucharist, because it is my opinion that Christians derive their faith from many places aside from the Bible. Atheists who argue against Christian faith seem to think that finding a flaw or two in the Bible should make a Christian lose faith, and I don't think they realize that the faith has other sources.
I think you're right. The people for whom inerrancy is critical -- and it's a minority of Christians -- have spent generations building up approaches to explain away the kind of arguments you're talking about, so it's futile even with them.
 
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Albion

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I was bringing up other things like the Eucharist, because it is my opinion that Christians derive their faith from many places aside from the Bible.
I find this idea of deriving faith through the Eucharist to be a peculiar concept and possibly circular. Isn't the Eucharist Bible-related?

Atheists who argue against Christian faith seem to think that finding a flaw or two in the Bible should make a Christian lose faith, and I don't think they realize that the faith has other sources.
The only other sources would seem to be the Apostolic tradition and the secular history of the early years of the church, neither of which contradict the Bible or are considered to have the weight of divine revelation.
 
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hedrick

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The only other source would seem to be the Apostolic tradition, but that was absorbed into the Bible when it was canonized.
But Catholics and EO don't agree. Sola scriptura is a Protestant belief, and not all of those whole hold it believe in inerrancy.
 
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Albion

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But Catholics and EO don't agree.
Of course they don't, but they are wrong. There is such a thing as the teachings of the Apostles prior to the canonization of the Bible, but Sacred Tradition, so called, is a fiction. The doctrines involved never actually meet the standards of Sacred Tradition--even if it were true that it is a second stream (after the Bible books) of divine revelation.
 
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Albion

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I think you're right. The people for whom inerrancy is critical -- and it's a minority of Christians -- have spent generations building up approaches to explain away the kind of arguments you're talking about, so it's futile even with them.
Wait a moment. Inerrancy was not part of this issue.
 
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