Being born again is having the old spirit person PUT TO DEATH (The wages of sin is death) and then having a NEW Human spirit created: "on the spot" as the military says. It is a REAL spiritual birth created by the Holy Spirit. Yes, I agree, it can only happen through FAITH in Jesus Christ.
Yes, the Old Testament saints DID have faith. But my question was, could they be born again BEFORE Christ rose from the dead. Could the Holy Spirit accomplish a new birth before Christ?
If so, then there would have been no need for the story of the rich man and Lazarus. And the Old Testament saints would have said that upon death they would go UP, not down.
Didn't Paul say if Christ did not rise, then we would still be in our sins?
Born again ... or born from above is a spiritual relationship with God .... people in the OT days and in the NT days having a spiritual relationship with God were/are born again.
There is ONE God. The trinity has always been (before creation) and will always be (throughout eternity). All three working together, from before creation, through creation and throughout eternity.
OT people had faith in Jesus. They were made aware Messiah was coming. They had a spiritual relationship with God/Jesus. They knew salvation (eternal life) would be through the Messiah.
If so, then there would have been no need for the story of the rich man and Lazarus. And the Old Testament saints would have said that upon death they would go UP, not down.
Good point (it is a parable) .... and what did the OT saints believe? They believed they rest (dormant) in the grave until they are resurrected ... on the last day.
Don't forget Jesus taught from the OT.
State of the Dead
Psalm 90:3-6
You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night. You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.
Job 7:21
"Why then do You not pardon my transgression And take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."
Job 14:10-12
"But man dies and lies prostrate Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up,
So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.
Psalm 13:3
Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,
Daniel 12:2
"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
Matthew 9:24
He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.
Mark 5:39
And entering in, He said to them, "Why make a commotion and weep? The child has not died, but is asleep."
Luke 8:52-53
Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, "Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died.
1 Kings 2:10
Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.
Deuteronomy 31:16
The LORD said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
2 Samuel 7:12
"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.
1 Kings 11:43
And Solomon slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of his father David, and his son Rehoboam reigned in his place.
1 Kings 14:20
The time that Jeroboam reigned was twenty-two years; and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his place.
1 Kings 16:6
And Baasha slept with his fathers and was buried in Tirzah, and Elah his son became king in his place.
1 Kings 22:50
And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers and was buried with his fathers in the city of his father David, and Jehoram his son became king in his place.
2 Kings 14:16
So Jehoash slept with his fathers and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son became king in his place.
2 Kings 15:7
And Azariah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David, and Jotham his son became king in his place.
2 Kings 16:20
So Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David; and his son Hezekiah reigned in his place.
2 Kings 20:21
So Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and Manasseh his son became king in his place.
2 Kings 21:18
And Manasseh slept with his fathers and was buried in the garden of his own house, in the garden of Uzza, and Amon his son became king in his place.
Revelation 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
John 11:11-14
This He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep." The disciples then said to Him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep.
Acts 7:60
Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.
1 Corinthians 15:6
After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;
John 5:28-29
"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Job 14:13-15
"Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me! "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait Until my change comes. "You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands.
Psalm 17:15
As for me, I shall behold Your face in righteousness; I will be satisfied with Your likeness when I awake.
Isaiah 26:19
Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.
1 Corinthians 15:20
But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
Jeremiah 51:57
"I will make her princes and her wise men drunk, Her governors, her prefects and her mighty men, That they may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up," Declares the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.
Psalm 7:3-5
O LORD my God, if I have done this, If there is injustice in my hands, If I have rewarded evil to my friend, Or have plundered him who without cause was my adversary, Let the enemy pursue my soul and overtake it; And let him trample my life down to the ground And lay my glory in the dust. Selah.
Psalm 76:5
The stouthearted were plundered, They sank into sleep; And none of the warriors could use his hands.
Jeremiah 51:39
"When they become heated up, I will serve them their banquet And make them drunk, that they may become jubilant And may sleep a perpetual sleep And not wake up," declares the LORD.
Didn't Paul say if Christ did not rise, then we would still be in our sins?
Yes He did ... Christ died once for ALL .... for ALL time.
"Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin ONCE: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God."
Romans 6:9-10, KJV
"But this man, [Jesus] because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did ONCE, when he offered up himself."
Hebrews 7:24-27, KJV
Yes ... the wages of sin is death .... and Jesus defeated death for all for all time.
and those sleeping (waiting) in the grave will live again for eternity.