Donald Trump retweets: Time to #FireFauci...

iluvatar5150 · Apr 14, 2020

redleghunter said:
Now in fairness to most governments local to national level, how many really consider a rapid global spread of a once in a Century, maybe Millenia outbreak?

Uh... The feds and most large city governments do all the time. That's pretty much what public health officials do. A widespread pandemic has been a known threat for some time and it's been little more than dumb luck that none of the outbreaks of the past decade-or-two weren't more dangerous than they were. Awareness of this threat was why the Obama administration created a special pandemic response directorate within the NSC.

And it's hardly a once-in-a-millenia outbreak. The 1918 flu was a century ago and we've had several close calls since then.

redleghunter · Apr 14, 2020

hedrick said:
Scientists have backed off the claim that it started in those markets. It’s possible, but they’re no longer as sure.

Don’t think they backed off the wet markets. In fact I think Fauci still believes this is where the animal to human transmission occurred.

The problem was China knowing there was already human to human transmission of the virus hiding that fact from the world as late as January 14th if the WHO is to be believed.

And it was not like magic that on 15 January China and the WHO came out saying “sorry we were wrong.” It was not until 30 January COVID 19 outbreak was declared a Public Health Emergency of International Concern on 30 January 2020.

Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) - events as they happen

wing2000 · Apr 14, 2020

redleghunter said:
The problem was China knowing there was already human to human transmission of the virus hiding that fact from the world as late as January 14th if the WHO is to be believed.

I agree that China is accountable for the lack of transparency early on and allowing the virus to migrate to all corners of the world during a critical stage. From what I recall reading, China didn't get a real grip on the problem until the national government stepped in (classic case of local bureaucrats minimizing the severity to protect their own hide?)

In any case the timing of the outbreak was particularly bad: During Chinese New Year, millions of Chines migrate for the festivities. This interactive analysis by the NYT notes that "about 7 million people left Wuhan" in January - prior to Chinese implementing travel restrictions - 23 January. Travel included destinations as NYC, Seattle and other International destinations....in other word, the virus spread globally was already well underway when the US implemented travel restrictions from China at the end of January.

Take a look....quite informative: How the Virus Got Out

redleghunter · Apr 14, 2020

hedrick said:
Scientists have backed off the claim that it started in those markets. It’s possible, but they’re no longer as sure.

Don’t think they backed off the wet markets. In fact I think Fauci still believes this is where the animal to human transmission occurred.

The problem was China knowing there was already human to human transmission of the virus hiding that fact from the world as late as January 14th if the WHO is to be believed.

View attachment 274753

And it was not like magic that on 15 January China and the WHO came out saying “sorry we were wrong.” It was not until 30 January COVID 19 outbreak was declared a Public Health Emergency of International Concern on 30 January 2020.

redleghunter · Apr 14, 2020

wing2000 said:
I agree that China is accountable for the lack of transparency early on and allowing the virus to migrate to all corners of the world during a critical stage. From what I recall reading, China didn't get a real grip on the problem until the national government stepped in (classic case of local bureaucrats minimizing the severity to protect their own hide?)

In any case the timing of the outbreak was particularly bad: During Chinese New Year, millions of Chines migrate for the festivities. This interactive analysis by the NYT notes that "about 7 million people left Wuhan" in January - prior to Chinese implementing travel restrictions - 23 January. Travel included destinations as NYC, Seattle and other International destinations....in other word, the virus spread globally was already well underway when the US implemented travel restrictions from China at the end of January.

Take a look....quite informative: How the Virus Got Out

Thank you for that resource.

I just want to “humanize” the timeline instead of the partisan bickering. We will have time to investigate where responses were not effective or inefficient and also where ingenuity and self sacrifice and sheer will reversed the negative trends. The aforementioned attributes will not be found in abundance at the top levels of government but the people fighting on the front lines and those in factories and transportation working those 18-20 hour days or getting no sleep for days. These are the Soldiers in this war and I appreciate them and will continue to support them with the means God Almighty has blessed me with.

Zoii · Apr 14, 2020

I'm not understanding the American conversation. The pandemic discussion should not be political, it should be bipartisan and transparent .

The USA started slowly.... as did many nations when the realisation of just how impacting this would be.

The USA perhaps started a tad more slowly than other nations, but that should be regarded clinically and objectively so an honest evaluation can occur.

Blaming anyone.... Including the President or WHO, is counter-productive

Allandavid · Apr 14, 2020

Zoii said:
I'm not understanding the American conversation. The pandemic discussion should not be political, it should be bipartisan and transparent .

The USA started slowly.... as did many nations when the realisation of just how impacting this would be.

The USA perhaps started a tad more slowly than other nations, but that should be regarded clinically and objectively so an honest evaluation can occur.

Blaming anyone.... Including the President or WHO, is counter-productive

Unfortunately, the Americans are led by someone who knows no other process for dealing with crisis...

Step 1: Find someone else to blame.
Step 2: See Step 1....

Zoii · Apr 14, 2020

Allandavid said:
Unfortunately, the Americans are led by someone who knows no other process for dealing with crisis...

Step 1: Find someone else to blame.
Step 2: See Step 1....

I don't disagree . But finger pointing by either party creates a mindset of protectiveness rather than cooperation and transparency.

I must say I'm rather proud of the manner in which Australian and new Zealand politicians have conducted themselves, with party politics largely abandoned in favour of unity in a time of crisis.

Allandavid · Apr 14, 2020

Zoii said:
I don't disagree . But finger pointing by either party creates a mindset of protectiveness rather than cooperation and transparency.

I must say I'm rather proud of the manner in which Australian and new Zealand politicians have conducted themselves, with party politics largely abandoned in favour of unity in a time of crisis.

Yes, I think our part of the world may become the model for Western nations to have followed. It helps, though, that our leaders from ‘both sides of the aisle’ are prepared to put the nation’s interests first...

Zoii · Apr 15, 2020

I am dumbfounded by the decision of the USA to withdraw funding of the WHO in the middle of a pandemic. This is a very poor administrative decision and those of us outside of the USA believe it is more about the leader's attempt to garnish support from his voters.

This follows a pattern to take an adversarial approach against a number of international programs from climate accords to international treaties and trade agreements.

NightHawkeye · Apr 15, 2020

Zoii said:
I am dumbfounded by the decision of the USA to withdraw funding of the WHO in the middle of a pandemic. This is a very poor administrative decision and those of us outside of the USA believe it is more about the leader's attempt to garnish support from his voters.

This follows a pattern to take an adversarial approach against a number of international programs from climate accords to international treaties and trade agreements.

Not sure why anyone would be "dumbfounded".

The reasons for de-funding the WHO were articulated clearly.
- The WHO's actions and recommendations fostered the spread of the virus ... rather than helping to defeat the virus.
- If the WHO can't, or won't, do it's job then it no longer serves its purpose and it's time to consider disbanding it.

KCfromNC · Apr 15, 2020

Zoii said:
I am dumbfounded by the decision of the USA to withdraw funding of the WHO in the middle of a pandemic. This is a very poor administrative decision and those of us outside of the USA believe it is more about the leader's attempt to garnish support from his voters.

It is not an uncommon viewpoint inside the USA either.

As is often the case, I'll expect a minority of voters here to fall for it and the rest of them to see it for what it really is.

Zoii · Apr 15, 2020

NightHawkeye said:
Not sure why anyone would be "dumbfounded".

The reasons for de-funding the WHO were articulated clearly.
- The WHO's actions and recommendations fostered the spread of the virus ... rather than helping to defeat the virus.
- If the WHO can't, or won't, do it's job then it no longer serves its purpose and it's time to consider disbanding it.

Let me get this straight - WHO, along with pretty much every nation, may have failed in some areas. Do remember in a pandemic though, actions are the jurispudence of national administrations... anyway, to improve it you believe it should be defunded (what da!) .... or rather the USA doesn't want to be a part of managing world health....I can see that somehow you think that makes sense

wing2000 · Apr 15, 2020

Zoii said:
I am dumbfounded by the decision of the USA to withdraw funding of the WHO in the middle of a pandemic. This is a very poor administrative decision and those of us outside of the USA believe it is more about the leader's attempt to garnish support from his voters.

This follows a pattern to take an adversarial approach against a number of international programs from climate accords to international treaties and trade agreements.

Target audience:

NightHawkeye said:
Not sure why anyone would be "dumbfounded".

The reasons for de-funding the WHO were articulated clearly.
- The WHO's actions and recommendations fostered the spread of the virus ... rather than helping to defeat the virus.
- If the WHO can't, or won't, do it's job then it no longer serves its purpose and it's time to consider disbanding it.

NightHawkeye · Apr 15, 2020

wing2000 said:
Target audience:

Care to actually discuss the matter of defunding the WHO?

One might start, for example, by stating what the WHO has done recently which benefited the world community.

Paulos23 · Apr 15, 2020

Zoii said:
I am dumbfounded by the decision of the USA to withdraw funding of the WHO in the middle of a pandemic. This is a very poor administrative decision and those of us outside of the USA believe it is more about the leader's attempt to garnish support from his voters.

This follows a pattern to take an adversarial approach against a number of international programs from climate accords to international treaties and trade agreements.

It is not America's decision, it is Trump's.

I think it is safe to say most of us would not tread the WHO like a contractor.

cow451 · Apr 15, 2020

Fauci must go! Disloyal underlings must be punished!

Donald Trump retweets: Time to #FireFauci...

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