The Earth will Burn

keras said:

My post is about the Lords Day of fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal event, not the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the Great Tribulation.

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The sixth seal is part of the Great Tribulation. Can be proven because the shakening of the powers of heaven are in the sixth seal and in Matthew 24:29-30a.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.



It is on my chart as well. Note that Matthew 24:30a is on the chart, and 45 days later is Matthew 24:30b. You can mouse over and click to magnify that part of the chart.

ZNP said:

There are many antichrists and false prophets, so in that respect, yes, there are those who can discern. But this expression "until the antichrist is revealed" I take to mean that this is when the antichrist is resuscitated and the spirit of Nero enters him.

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Well, that is not a biblical expression. And is misleading.

It is actually the man of sin, the son of perdition be revealed. And that revealing takes place in the 2Thesslonians2:4 act when he goes into the temple, sits, claiming to have achieved God-hood.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That event will not take place until near the middle of the seven years.

The person will have already become the Antichrist before then, by being anointed the King of Israel, as the Jews will make the mistake of thinking the person is the messiah. So his identity, who the person is, will be well known globally.

The only time the person is the Antichrist is while he is the King of israel. Other times, he is not.

When he claims to be God - that will end his time as the Antichrist, as the Jews will renounce him as their King.
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The person, the revealed man of sin, will be killed for his act and will be brought back to life as the beast in Revelation 13.

Douggg said:

Well, that is not a biblical expression. And is misleading.

It is actually the man of sin, the son of perdition be revealed. And that revealing takes place in the 2Thesslonians2:4 act when he goes into the temple, sits, claiming to have achieved God-hood.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That event will not take place until near the middle of the seven years.

The person will have already become the Antichrist before then, by being anointed the King of Israel, as the Jews will make the mistake of thinking the person is the messiah. So his identity, who the person is, will be well known globally.

The only time the person is the Antichrist is while he is the King of israel. Other times, he is not.

When he claims to be God - that will end his time as the Antichrist, as the Jews will renounce him as their King.
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The person, the revealed man of sin, will be killed for his act and will be brought back to life as the beast in Revelation 13.

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I wonder if the antichrist is revealed when he first gets appointed as the antichrist, whether there would be anyway to stop him from proclaiming godhood. What with the thing of social media nowadays and word getting out on the internet. I wonder if there could be a movement to remove him as soon as he proclaims himself as king. I know there is prophecy of the antichrist, but i wonder if there is anyway to stop the prophecy from actually happening by stopping the antichrist.

keras said:

My post is about the Lords Day of fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal event, not the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the Great Tribulation.

Same for you SG.
Jesus does not return in wrath. There is a given sequence; the Seals, Trumpets, the Bowls and then Jesus Returns and simply kills the armies of Satan by the Sword of His Word. His wrath is completed before the Return. Revelation 15:1

The Bible prophets are quite clear in their prophesies. They accurately described Jesus first Advent.
They carefully and with much detail; describe the forthcoming end time events.
Believe it or not, your choice.

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Not so! You need to dig deeper into the Word to see what it says on this. It is totally destructive and no one escapes.

Jesus says of His coming in Matthew 24:35-44: “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”

The removal of the current heaven and earth is here connected to the coming of the Lord. After telling us that “heaven and earth shall pass away” Jesus immediately tells us: “of that day and hour knoweth no man.” This final day that is approaching is coming unexpectedly. This fits in with the “thief in the night” scenario found elsewhere in Scripture. It would seem to confirm that the day that Christ returns is the day when the current corrupt natural order (both the creature and creation) is gloriously changed. The wicked and all corruption are destroyed when Jesus comes. The Lord here identifies the passing away of “heaven and earth” with “the coming of the Son of man.”

1 Corinthians 15:12-14, 21-24, asking, “how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain…But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming [Gr. parousia]. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

The “coming” of the Lord, described in this reading, is here carefully located at “the end.” In fact, the whole tenure of the passage is distinctly pointing to a climactic time in history when God separates righteousness and wickedness forever. It is the occasion approaching when Christ finally presents “up the kingdom to God” and will have, as He promised, “put down all rule and all authority and power.” Simultaneously, the glorification of the kingdom of God sees the destruction of the kingdom of darkness. It is the end-game for Satan and the conclusion of his evil efforts to obstruct the plan of God for mankind. Wickedness has finally and eternally been abolished.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9 declares: “if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain ‘shall be caught up’ [Gr. harpazō] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.”

This is the end! Jesus comes on the “day of the Lord” as a “thief in the night.” He rescues His people, but equally His appearing sees the “sudden” and total “destruction” of the wicked: “they shall not escape.”

I mean, the Holy Spirit could not have made it clearer: "they shall not escape." This totally negates the whole Premil paradigm of countless wicked mortals saturating the new earth.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-12, 2:1-4 shows that the “gathering” (i.e. catching away) of the saints occurs at “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” It states: “And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed [Gr. apokalupsis] from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ. Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming [Gr. parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our ‘gathering together’ [Gr. episunagoge– originating from episunago] unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ [rendered “the day of the Lord” elsewhere in the New Testament] is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”

Once again “the coming of our Lord” and “the day of the Lord” are shown to refer to the same concluding day of time. Paul is encouraging the Church here to remain strong and steadfast as they await the coming of the day of the Lord. This day, that comes unexpectedly as a thief in the night, will catch the wicked unprepared. He tells the Thessalonians not to be “soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us.” This would suggest that there would be times of trial and tribulation to endure before this great climactic event. What is more, it is an approaching event that the Church was to prepare for, because: “the day of the Lord is at hand (or enistemi meaning impending).”

We should carefully note that this is the time when the Church is gathered unto the Lord. The coming (parousia) of the Lord witnesses the gathering of the saints – dead and alive. The dead in Christ are resurrected; the alive in Christ are caught up. The phrase “gathering together” is taken from the Greek word episunagoge proving that the Church isn't raptured until the one final coming of Christ at the day of the Lord.

This is sudden, climactic and totally destructive. It sees God rescuing His elect and destroying the wicked.

2 Peter 3:3-13 tells us: “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming [Gr. parousia]? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

How can anyone survive this? They cannot! It's impossible! Well the second coming is the end for the wicked, the righteous inherit the new heavens and new earth; not some suppose future thousand years that is polluted by sin, sinners, Satan, death and ongoing corruption. The appearing of Christ spells the end for all unrighteousness. Anything that is not glorified is consumed. Peter demonstrates here that when Jesus comes back the heavens, earth and all that is on the earth, and the elements are going to dissolve. His glory and unchallenged reign will be set up on the new renewed earth.

Dave G. said:

It will happen without question. As to how soon, that's totally up in the air. How do you think He will fry everything, any thoughts ?

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Yep..There is an invisible force holding all the neutrons and protons together in the center of every atom. The electrons are negative, the protons are positive. The electrons orbit in their outer levels and the protons are in the center. Their numbers and levels of orbit, along with the number of neutrons, determine the element.
There is no reason for the neutrons to stick around. And, they have no mass...

I believe that this is God Himself holding the world together by this action in every single atom in the universe.
When He is done with this old earth.. He will release the neutrons and in a flash of heat.. it's gone.

axelthefox said:

I wonder if the antichrist is revealed when he first gets appointed as the antichrist, whether there would be anyway to stop him from proclaiming godhood. What with the thing of social media nowadays and word getting out on the internet. I wonder if there could be a movement to remove him as soon as he proclaims himself as king. I know there is prophecy of the antichrist, but i wonder if there is anyway to stop the prophecy from actually happening by stopping the antichrist.

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While there is widespread awareness that there will be the Antichrist, the understanding about the person differs widely as well.

The person will come to power and events take place, that there is not going be any altering of what has been prophesied. He actually starts as the leader of Europe, is when the bible first describes him as the little horn in Daniel 7.

Years later, after Gog/Magog, and after he becomes the king of Israel embraced by the Jews thinking he is their messiah, and then later betraying them, is when he claims to be God.

Once he makes that claim, there is indication, however, that the person will be killed, just as you are suggesting.

In 2Thesslaonians2:4 is where he goes into the temple and sits. Then over in Ezekiel 28:1-10, there is a prophecy about him (code named as the prince of tyre, sitting in a seat intended for God, that God has him killed for it. Scroll down through the prophecy, and you will find that strangers (to him) will kill him.

So it appears that there will be some sort of assassination hit squad, probably from other nations, kill him. But after being killed, he comes back to life - as the beast (which his coming back to life is in Isaiah 14:14-20). That's what Revelation 13 is also telling us, his being killed and come back to life.

1 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:

5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

axelthefox said:

I wonder if the antichrist is revealed when he first gets appointed as the antichrist, whether there would be anyway to stop him from proclaiming godhood. What with the thing of social media nowadays and word getting out on the internet. I wonder if there could be a movement to remove him as soon as he proclaims himself as king. I know there is prophecy of the antichrist, but i wonder if there is anyway to stop the prophecy from actually happening by stopping the antichrist.

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@ axelthefox

I see you are Catholic. The person is not the pope, nor office of the pope. That view came out of the reformation, because of the persecution by the popes of that time.

The person has to be a Jew and his religion Judaism. And he will likely be into Kabbalah as well.

The popes are not a fit.

A couple of posts back, I provided my chart. The red line is the critical path of events involving the person to his destruction. If you follow down through the chart and read the references as you go - you will have a pretty good grasp of the end times, especially the last 7 years leading up to Jesus's return.

Douggg said:

@ axelthefox

I see you are Catholic. The person is not the pope, nor office of the pope. That view came out of the reformation, because of the persecution by the popes of that time.

The person has to be a Jew and his religion Judaism. And he will likely be into Kabbalah as well.

The popes are not a fit.

A couple of posts back, I provided my chart. The red line is the critical path of events involving the person to his destruction. If you follow down through the chart and read the reference as you go - you will have a pretty good grasp of the end times, especially the last 7 years leading up to Jesus's return.

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Watashi wa baka desu

Dave G. said:

It will happen without question. As to how soon, that's totally up in the air. How do you think He will fry everything, any thoughts ?

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Probably a solar flare from the sun which would instantly vaporize the surface of the earth.

keras said:

As for how soon; what will trigger the Lord into taking action, will be an attack by Iran and all the Islamic peoples, upon Israel. The Lord will not allow nukes to pollute the holy Land. Psalms 7:12-16
This could happen at anytime, Iran and her proxies are well armed and ready, just awaiting the right moment. Psalms 83

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All the Islamic people....Indonesia is gonna have bit long supply lines. Saudi Arabia will switch sides and ally with their arch enemy?

Didn’t you have an opinion piece last year how Trump’s efforts would lead to peace in the Middle East? How has that worked out ?

Still I like prophecies that have nice roadmap even if it is total interpretation.

Until we see Indonesian troop transports landing on Holy Land that is fighting allied Iran and Saudi Arabia we can just call this a piece of fiction.

Are you really starting every day with checking the internet and thinking this could really happen anytime?

keras said:

As for your chart, that you post at every opportunity; it is wrong in many aspects. Only as events unfold will you and all the deceived people finally understand Gods plans.

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The reason I post my chart is because to verbally alone begin explaining how something fits in the end times set of events - would take a book.

A chart is worth a thousand(s) words. Other people usually don't have such a chart because more often than not the view they have doesn't fit things together... and the ideas they present are fragmented segments of the seven years and end times - which can not be fitted together.

I show the sixth seal event on the chart and the associated events that fit with it, and the bible verses as well (Matthew 24:29, Matthew 24:30a, Matthew 24:30b)

Aside from the chart, I posted in my post #18 right from Revelation what appears to be the cause of the judgments. A solar event was associated with one of them. But not responsible for all of them.

The event in the sixth seal involves the stars and seeing the throne of God in the third heaven. So it goes far beyond a solar event.

keras said:

I am constantly astounded at how people confuse the truth and jump to wrong conclusions.
I said; the Trump Peace Plan, when it is implemented; will infuriate all the Islamic peoples and will cause them to attack Israel. with the result of their virtual demise. Psalms 83
Islam will be no more, but neither will Judah; only a remnant of them will survive. Romans 9:27

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You have been saying that for years with terms like real soon now, any moment and things to that effect.

How many years until you admit it is not going to happen ?

Or you will just take the prophecy with you to your death bed convinced that you are right but just won’t happen to see it but it will happen any moment now regardless.

Peter describes a second Big Bang to a tee.

“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” 2 Peter 3:7–13 (KJV 1900)

Douggg said:

Well, that is not a biblical expression. And is misleading.

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Tell that to the Apostle John
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

The post was about identifying the antichrist. John gives some very basic rules about doing that.

Douggg said:

It is actually the man of sin, the son of perdition be revealed. And that revealing takes place in the 2Thesslonians2:4 act when he goes into the temple, sits, claiming to have achieved God-hood.

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Once again, the post was about being able to identify the antichrist before it was obvious to the whole world.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

I said "Prior to that you wouldn't know who he is" because prior to the spirit of Nero entering him he really isn't "the son of perdition".

ZNP said:

Tell that to the Apostle John
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

The post was about identifying the antichrist. John gives some very basic rules about doing that.

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ZNP, John did not write your post. You did.

What I was referring to not being an expression found in the bible was "until the antichrist is revealed", the whole set of words. I think you may have missed the point I was making.

What is in the bible is 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

To determine who the person is before he becomes the Antichrist, and later to be revealed as the man of sin, is to watch the EU, when it has reformed into a ten leader form of government with one person over them. That one person, if he is a Jew and has a determined facial appearance, will be the one who eventually becomes the Antichrist, later down the road.
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btw, in 1John2:18-19, John was likening them in his day that were departing Christianity to the coming Antichrist, by calling them antichrists. As John was comparing their behavior and attitude to the coming Antichrist, who will deny the deity of Jesus, in Jesus coming out from the Father, and being one with the Father. John 10:30. John 16:28.

1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Douggg said:

ZNP, John did not write your post. You did.

What I was referring to not being an expression found in the bible was "until the antichrist is revealed", the whole set of words. I think you may have missed the point I was making.

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The expression was in quotes because I was responding to something the previous poster said and did not want it confused. I said I understood his quote to refer to our ability to identify the antichrist. I referenced John's writings about there being many antichrists, but his post was clearly not about the many, but about the son of perdition. Yes, it would be very easy for everyone to identify the son of perdition once the temple is rebuilt and he sits down in it. But his question was about identifying him now, prior to that event.

Perhaps instead of being so quick to jump in and correct someone, maybe you could read the posts and understand what is being said first.

ZNP said:

It also says "and they shall by no means escape" so you can forget running to another planet.


Human history has been 6,000 years. We have come a long way in that time. What is the time frame for the sun to get too intense? Millions of years? Billions?

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Physically, you can escape. But it doesn't matter, because you'll never escape spiritually. For that is a realm beyond this universe, beyond our minds, and probably beyond our souls.

The sun is going to start increasing its luminosity in around one billion years time. But that's an assumption, because we're judging the sun against other stars. The sun is actually quite a rare greenish/white star. Most of the stars up there are Blue and Red Giants.

So we actually don't know what it'll do, but the consensus is that it'll start burning helium over hydrogen and will eventually expand to the orbit of earth - but that's assuming that the Andromeda collision doesn't screw with that.

It's 4 billion years away, so I don't care.