How Could God allow this?

Dave L · Apr 12, 2020

ZNP said:
I don't see anyone disapproving of God, instead I see this as worshipping God who is omniscient, omnipotent, and a good God.

"How could God allow this?" What makes you think he allows anything? And what if he created it and sent it on the world in judgment? Do you approve?

FutureAndAHope · Apr 12, 2020

ZNP said:
There have been many different threads which have asked this question about Corona virus. Many of the posters assert that God is the creator of all things (agreed) that He is omnipotent and omniscient (agreed) and that given these criteria coronavirus could not have taken place without His allowing it (agreed). He foresaw it would happen (omniscient), He created it (creator of all things) and He had the power to prevent it (omnipotent). I agree with all of this.

Others, also quoting scriptures point out that God is love (agreed), He is a merciful and good God (agreed), in Him is no darkness (agreed), His thoughts for us are good and not evil (agreed). How do you reconcile these two?

This is commonly known as the problem of evil and is a logical argument used by atheists to deny that God exists. Their argument is that the definition of God is that He is the creator of all things (agreed). Evil exists (agreed). Therefore God created evil (disagree and will explain). There are many ways that Christians try to squirm out of this and they are not scriptural. They make Satan (Lucifer was also created by God) into some kind of powerful being who has the ability to create evil and sin even though he is a created being by God (this does not change the fact that if evil exists, it was part of the creation that God created). For example the Bible says God cannot lie. How then could he create a universe in which there are lies and liars?

Therefore I wanted to open this thread up to Christians so that we could examine the scriptures and understand "How could God allow this to happen?"

We know that God's plans are far above our own. Physical death is not the end for the believer. It is the beginning of eternity with God. For the evil death is their end, and a just punishment for their sins. I believe that God can use death, and the fear of it, to revive those who's hearts have become complacent. He can use the fear of death to make man think about their eternal destiny.

Ecc 7:2 It is better to go to the house of mourning than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart.

He can also preserve his saints, those how know Him trough a time of disease, whilst if it be his will bringing an end to wicked men. As is stated in Psalm 91.

Psa 91:5-10 You will have no fear of the evil things of the night, or of the arrow in flight by day, Or of the disease which takes men in the dark, or of the destruction which makes waste when the sun is high. You will see a thousand falling by your side, and ten thousand at your right hand; but it will not come near you. Only with your eyes will you see the reward of the evil-doers. Because you have said, I am in the hands of the Lord, the Most High is my safe resting-place; No evil will come on you, and no disease will come near your tent.

Jamesone5 · Apr 12, 2020

martymonster said:
Well, here's some more of the word of God for you to add to and take away from.

Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

God created satan did He not? He did NOT create the pride that satan adopted.

He simply allowed satan to buffet Job, just like He allows evil at times to come into our lives to learn to Trust in Him or turn away from Him and then curse God--as the text says.

When my only son took his life 25 years ago---yes I could have turned from God and thought He created the evil that destroyed my son. But I got a lot of comfort from Job's Story and of course how Christ brought me to dry ground.

ZNP · Apr 12, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
Simple. man did not walk in His light--so man can be blamed by his decision at first of creating calamity. He created man who he called good--so man, not God, really created calamity.

Isaiah verses are hard to understand unless you look at the context of them.

Do you see anywhere in the Creation account [Genesis Chapters 1 and 2}where God created calamity or evil?

Is God trying to take credit for something man created? Do you agree that God is omniscient so when He created man and called him good He also could force the calamity?

Jamesone5 · Apr 12, 2020

ZNP said:
Is God trying to take credit for something man created? Do you agree that God is omniscient so when He created man and called him good He also could force the calamity?

I am not sure I follow you. But I will add this---Why would God take credit for calamity?

ZNP · Apr 12, 2020

Idromos247 said:
In my eyes it has always been very simple... We (as Adam's race) spat in the face of god and pretty much gave him the finger. Any form of destruction that came upon us would be fair in my eyes. What does god owe us really? Nothing. So the simple fact he always some of us to even see heaven is good enough for me.

The world will burn and it is well deserved.

8

O Jehovah, our Lord, How excellent is thy name in all the earth,

Who hast set thy glory [a]upon the heavens!

2

Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou established strength,

Because of thine adversaries,

That thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

3

When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers,

The moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

4

What is man, that thou art mindful of him?

And the son of man, that thou visitest him?

5

For thou hast made him but little lower than God,

And crownest him with glory and honor.

6

Thou makest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands;

Thou hast put all things under his feet:

ZNP · Apr 12, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
I am not sure I follow you. But I will add this---Why would God take credit for calamity?

Isaiah 45:7 God said He creates calamity, but you said it was actually man that created the calamity.

ZNP · Apr 12, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
When my only son took his life 25 years ago---yes I could have turned from God and thought He created the evil that destroyed my son. But I got a lot of comfort from Job's Story and of course how Christ brought me to dry ground.

That is a powerful story and reading between the lines see you spent a lot of time seeking the Lord. What a great revelation. The question asks "How could God allow this" and what we missed is that one thing God does not allow is pride. Corona virus and all these other things do not allow us to be proud.

Jamesone5 · Apr 12, 2020

ZNP said:
Isaiah 45:7 God said He creates calamity, but you said it was actually man that created the calamity.

Yes, we already went through that verse, but here it is again

Isaiah 45:7
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’

When you have a choice that man makes--- God does not directly create calamity. You have to take the whole of the Bible into consideration, before you try to make this verse very literal.
Here is another verse in Isaiah about God and His intent which we sometimes try to make Him accountable for

Isaiah 55:8
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.

Jamesone5 · Apr 12, 2020

ZNP said:
That is a powerful story and reading between the lines see you spent a lot of time seeking the Lord. What a great revelation. The question asks "How could God allow this" and what we missed is that one thing God does not allow is pride. Corona virus and all these other things do not allow us to be proud.

What do you mean when you say God does not allow pride? That started with Adam and Eve and has gone on for all the generations since.

We, As a Nation [and I will not speak for the rest of the word] are very proud in very subtle ways. Should not most of us who call ourselves Believers, be turning to Him in His Word right now?

ZNP · Apr 12, 2020

Dave L said:
"How could God allow this?" What makes you think he allows anything? And what if he created it and sent it on the world in judgment? Do you approve?

Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not? Lamentations 3:37

For example, when Joseph's brothers sold him as a slave you could argue God didn't allow this, God didn't approve of this, but that is not what Joseph said.

20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but iGod meant it for good, to bring it about that many people2 should be kept alive, as they are today.

ZNP · Apr 12, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
What do you mean when you say God does not allow pride? That started with Adam and Eve and has gone on for all the generations since.

We, As a Nation [and I will not speak for the rest of the word] are very proud in very subtle ways. Should not most of us who call ourselves Believers, be turning to Him in His Word right now?

And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled; and whosoever shall humble himself shall be exalted. Matt 23:12

Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God 1Pet 5:6

ZNP · Apr 12, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
Yes, we already went through that verse, but here it is again

Isaiah 45:7
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’

When you have a choice that man makes--- God does not directly create calamity. You have to take the whole of the Bible into consideration, before you try to make this verse very literal.
Here is another verse in Isaiah about God and His intent which we sometimes try to make Him accountable for

Isaiah 55:8
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.

Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not? Lamentations 3:37

ZNP · Apr 12, 2020

Dave L said:
It says all were constituted, sinners. Adam flunked the test and proved we are a corrupt species.

What about the last Adam?

Jamesone5 · Apr 12, 2020

ZNP said:
Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not? Lamentations 3:37

What point are you trying to make here that would apply to what we were discussing before?

ZNP · Apr 12, 2020

Arc F1 said:
This life is a test of one's worth. You seek answers as to why but we don't have the understanding of God. The devil once tried to be like God in all his wisdom and it cost him his position in heaven. We don't need to know why. Part of the test is obedience. To understand God's wisdom you would have to be at his level. Lucifer loves nothing more than for people to question why.

“Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor.” Ezekiel 28:12

We are not looking at "our beauty" but rather our failure. There is no splendor that man can claim in this pandemic.

On the other hand we are exalting God as omnipotent, omniscient, and a good God. This is not what the Devil did.

Dave L · Apr 12, 2020

ZNP said:
Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not? Lamentations 3:37

For example, when Joseph's brothers sold him as a slave you could argue God didn't allow this, God didn't approve of this, but that is not what Joseph said.

20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but iGod meant it for good, to bring it about that many people2 should be kept alive, as they are today.

Do you love and thank God for sending this judgment?

Guojing · Apr 12, 2020

setst777 said:
Romans 5 does not state we are condemned for Adam's sin; rather, that since Adam, all have sinned.

Romans 5:12-14 (WEB)
12 Therefore as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; so death passed to all men, because all sinned. 13 For until the law, sin was in the world; but sin is not charged when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those whose sins weren’t like Adam’s disobedience, who is a foreshadowing of him who was to come.

Therefore, ever since Adam, people have sinned, and by their own sins they die.

Romans 5:12 Therefore as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; so death passed to all men, because all sinned.

Why did death pass to all men?
Answer: Because all sinned.

No Scripture states that we die for Adam's sin.

Paul clearly states that sin was in the world before any law was given, but when God made a Law that was not obeyed, such as not eating of the Tree of Knowledge, then that sin was counted against them.

Romans 5:13 (WEB)
13 For until the law, sin was in the world; but sin is not charged when there is no law.

Therefore, ever since Adam (the first human to walk the earth), people have sinned, but that sin does not produce death until a Law is made showing us not to commit that sin.

Therefore the Law was given as our school master or tutor to show us our sins - we are then condemned by those sins because of the Law given - and then bring us to Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:24 (WEB)
24 So that the law has become our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But before any Law of God was given, God did not count any sin against them.

Acts 17:30 (WEB) 30 The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent

But once the Law was given, Adam and all others after him, have broken God's Laws and are condemned for their own sins.

See also:

Romans 2:10-12 (WEB)
10 But glory, honor, and peace go to every man who does good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without the law will also perish without the law.
As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

Romans 7:7-8 (WEB)
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? May it never be! However, I wouldn’t have known sin, except through the law. For I wouldn’t have known coveting, unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” [Exodus 20:17; Deuteronomy 5:21] 8 But sin, finding occasion through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of coveting. For apart from the law, sin is dead.

Blessings

How about infants who died, before they could knowingly commit any sin?

ZNP · Apr 12, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
What point are you trying to make here that would apply to what we were discussing before?

The point that has been made since the opening post is that God is omnipotent, He is omniscient. Nothing happens without His command. Satan is not allowed to attack Job without God's command. The plagues that struck Egypt, the flood at the time of Noah, even the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

Dave L · Apr 12, 2020

ZNP said:
What about the last Adam?

We (believers) have his imputed righteousness instead of Adam's imputed guilt.

How Could God allow this?

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