Are those who deny eternal punishment doomed to Hell?

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Saint Steven

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Brother: The chariots of Fire are breathing down my neck. I do trust there will be someone who misses me as the whirlpool completes its work.

Wow. That video brought me to tears. I sure miss the gathering of the body in worship.
 
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Contenders Edge

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Well, your claim was that "Even the demons confess Christ as Lord..."
Clearly the demons do not CURRENTLY confess Christ as Lord. (but they will)
You have no basis to claim that you are right, or that I am wrong.

Try these questions on for size.
If we confess Jesus Christ as Lord will we be saved?
What if a demon confesses Jesus Christ as Lord, will they be saved?

Saint Steven said:
Why can't you just admit when you are wrong?
Nice game of connect the dots though. Bravo.

Contenders Edge said:
Even the demons confess Christ as Lord, but are they doing so out of adoration?


We confess Christ as Lord in faith and that is what saves us.

Demons will not confess Jesus as Lord by a faith that saves, but out of fear and as conquered foes, and therefore will never be saved because they have no desire at heart to turn away from their evil.
 
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Saint Steven

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... Demons will not confess Jesus as Lord by a faith that saves, but out of fear and as conquered foes, and therefore will never be saved because they have no desire at heart to turn away from their evil.
On what basis do you make such a claim?
 
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Contenders Edge

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Salvation is a gray area then, not black and white?
Since that is the case, how can you assume there is no salvation in the afterlife?
The gray area you describe in your post spills over into the afterlife.

Like those to whom Christ made proclamation to in the realm of the dead before his resurrection. When he took captives with him out of there.


I never said that salvation is gray area. What I am saying is that God is just and is not going to exact an unjust punishment and if there were ever a chance for salvation in the afterlife, scripture would have said so, but scriptures teaches no such thing. As for the captives Christ took with Him when He rose from the dead, these were those who died in faith before He came. He would not have taken from there those who died in unbelief and in wickedness.
 
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Saint Steven

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I never said that salvation is gray area. What I am saying is that God is just and is not going to exact an unjust punishment and if there were ever a chance for salvation in the afterlife, scripture would have said so, but scriptures teaches no such thing. As for the captives Christ took with Him when He rose from the dead, these were those who died in faith before He came. He would not have taken from there those who died in unbelief and in wickedness.
Nope.
Jesus "went and made proclamation to... those who were disobedient long ago... in the days of Noah"

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
 
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Nope.
Jesus "went and made proclamation to... those who were disobedient long ago... in the days of Noah"

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,


If those disobedient departed were offered salvation, then why do they remain in Hell to this day? (Rev. 20:13)
 
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Saint Steven

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If those disobedient departed were offered salvation, then why do they remain in Hell to this day? (Rev. 20:13)
Remained in hell? It says Hades. (the realm of the dead)
And refers to those who entered later. The events in Rev. happen after the resurrection of Christ, correct?

When Christ ascended, he took captives in order to fill the whole universe.
(where is hell in that equation?)

Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also
descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended
higher than all the heavens,
in order to fill the whole universe.)
 
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FineLinen

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If those disobedient departed were offered salvation, then why do they remain in Hell to this day? (Rev. 20:13)

Jesus Christ does not offer salvation! He IS salvation to all mankind with a special emphasis to the malista/ especially.

“We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.”

The risen Christ preaches to the dead

“Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

"Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit."

Dead=

nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

Breathed his last/ lifeless.

Deceased/ departed.

Destitute of life/ without life.

Inanimate.

Disobedient= apeitheo=

Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

To refuse belief and obedience.

Not to comply with.

Live= zao=

To be alive with resurrection life.
 
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Der Alte

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Nope.
Jesus "went and made proclamation to... those who were disobedient long ago... in the days of Noah"
1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
Did you read this scripture before you posted it?
1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Does this passage say that Jesus preached to dead spirits in the grave/hell? No, he preached to the people of Noah's day. No dead spirits were preached to or saved. The only people saved were Noah's family and they were alive not dead.
Jesus told us what His ministry was.

Luke 4:18-19
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
This says nothing about preaching to dead souls in the grave/hell. The word translated "captives" literally means "prisoner(s) of war."
 
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FineLinen

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Remained in hell? It says Hades. (the realm of the dead)
And refers to those who entered later. The events in Rev. happen after the resurrection of Christ, correct?

When Christ ascended, he took captives in order to fill the whole universe.
(where is hell in that equation?)

Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also
descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended
higher than all the heavens,
in order to fill the whole universe.)

Hades is not the realm of the dead for the righteous, but the realm of the dead for the wicked to be clear. The dead in Christ go to be present with the Lord in Heaven. And those captives he took were not the wicked but the righteous who died in faith, but the wicked remain in Hades to this very day until the final judgment which is yet to come.
 
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Jesus Christ does not offer salvation! He IS salvation to all mankind with a special emphasis to the malista/ especially.

“We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.”

The risen Christ preaches to the dead

“Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

"Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit."

Dead=

nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

Breathed his last/ lifeless.

Deceased/ departed.

Destitute of life/ without life.

Inanimate.

Disobedient= apeitheo=

Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

To refuse belief and obedience.

Not to comply with.

Live= zao=

To be alive with resurrection life.


He is only salvation to those who receive Him but those who refuse Him will never experience the salvation that comes from Him.
 
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Contenders Edge

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Explain how that is different than the fate you claim for "lost" humankind. Thanks.


It isn't. They both will suffer eternal torment. (Mt. 25:41) That is what the demons fear and resist to this day. The lost who persist in their rebellion against Christ do not seem to care until they are faced with that sentence.
 
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Saint Steven

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Hades is not the realm of the dead for the righteous, but the realm of the dead for the wicked to be clear. The dead in Christ go to be present with the Lord in Heaven. And those captives he took were not the wicked but the righteous who died in faith, but the wicked remain in Hades to this very day until the final judgment which is yet to come.
No resurrection for the righteous then?
 
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Saint Steven

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It isn't. They both will suffer eternal torment. (Mt. 25:41) That is what the demons fear and resist to this day. The lost who persist in their rebellion against Christ do not seem to care until they are faced with that sentence.
In Romans chapter five we are told four times that the atonement was effective for everyone.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
 
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No resurrection for the righteous then?


Of course there will be a resurrection of the righteous. It is called the first resurrection, but their souls are in Heaven with Christ, not in the grave.
 
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In Romans chapter five we are told four times that the atonement was effective for everyone.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.


It is only effective for the repentant, not the unrepentant.
 
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Saint Steven

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Of course there will be a resurrection of the righteous. It is called the first resurrection, but their souls are in Heaven with Christ, not in the grave.
What's the point in that?
Don't you believe that heaven is eternal life?
Why would they need a resurrection from the dead from heaven?

Saint Steven said:
No resurrection for the righteous then?
 
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