John 10:27 is a Policy Statement

FreeGrace2 · Apr 9, 2020

I said:
"Phil, you have indicated (by your responses to my questions) that you have no discernment between the indwelling and filling of the Holy Spirit."

Phil W said:
That is correct, one is either indwelt-filled or they are not.
They are inseparable qualities.

Thank you for making my point. You DO have NO discernment between the two. But the Bible makes a clear distinction between the 2. There are no verses that equate the two, and there are no commanded to be indwell.

Those who AREN'T fooling themselves understand the difference. But the self deceived cannot discern the difference, as you freely admit.

I said:
"Now, the filling of the Holy Spirit is a command to be OBEYED. That's what commands are for; to be obeyed."

Hmmm.
How does a man accomplish something done by God alone?

Only those who have been fooling themselves and have no discernment would ask such a question. The answer is found in John's first epistle. First, the believer MUST confess their sins (wiping their feet, remember?). That cleanses the believer and restores fellowship. Then, the believer prays for God's will, which is to be filled, because it is a command.

1 John 5:14,15
14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.
15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

I'm not sure that those who keep fooling themselves will understand any of this, but when I was young I heard someone telling a story about a guy who wanted to know how to be filled with the Spirit. He was told, "yield, brother, yield!". When the guy asked how to "yield", the answer was the same, only spoken LOUDER.

In a sense, the answer was correct. The problem is that the word "yield" is vague. However, a specific prayer to be filled with the Spirit is SPECIFIC and such a prayer IS clearly yielding to the Spirit, by the desire to be filled.

So, there you have it. But I'm not hopeful that someone self deceived and having no truth can understand this truth.

I said:
"Now, you have claimed repeatedly that you obey all His commands. But yet, you have no concept of the difference between the indwelling of the Spirit, which God does for and to the believer. And, there are no commands to be indwelt with the Spirit."

Yes, both of them.

Totally misunderstanding my comment. The filling of the Spirit is a command to obey, yet you falsely believe that the indwelling IS the filling. So you aren't even concerned about obeying the command to be filled, since you have fooled yourself into thinking that you are always filled with the Spirit.

The point is this: you have FAILED to obey the command to be filled, since you don't even understand what that means.

Love God above all else and love my neighbor as I love myself.

Failure to obey the command to be filled with the Spirit. And failure to understand what it is.

You are insinuating that God's gift of the Holy Ghost, for our repentance from sin, (Acts 2:38), isn't sufficient for the Christians life in Christ.

Oh, how foolish. I'm saying the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you claim here.

The gift of the Holy Spirit is His indwelling in the believer. The filling is HOW to be empowered to live the Christian way of life. And it is commanded, meaning that it is to be obeyed. Not automatic.

The gift of the Spirit is God's to give.

Of course. And He gives the gift to those who have believed. Eph 1:13 says so.

So does Acts 10:43.

All I can do is obey the command to"clean the temple".
That happened when I was baptized in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins.

I know your self deceived opinion. Cleaning the temple is an on-going issue, just like wiping your feet after walking on the paths that Jesus walked, and got animal feces on His feet. That's WHY they washed feet in Jesus' day. It was necessary to avoid offending others. Sin offends God. So YOU need to confess YOUR sin. And get back into fellowship with Him. ONLY THEN will you be in a position where you can be filled with the Spirit.

But you remain self deceived. You keep fooling yourself.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 9, 2020

Phil W said:
To tell the fakes from the real prophets, we just need to heed Jesus' words form Matt 7:15-20...
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

If your "prophets" commit sin, they are not of God.

OK, one more time. Those who claim to be without sin are FALSE PROPHETS.

They are self deceived and they have NO TRUTH in them.

Got it?

Of course you don't. You are only fooling yourself.

False prophets make claims that are FALSE. Which is what you do.

Phil W · Apr 9, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
I said:
"Paul described his own body as "vile". Is your body vile a well?"
Could you just answer the question about whether your own body is vile? I don't care about either of your "hands".
So, your self deceived idea is that Paul was only referring to physical dirt and such.

What do you believe from your deceived perspective?

Well, that's one way to avoid the obvious truth that you keep denying. But, since you are only fooling yourself, be by guest.

If you feel it is alright to slander others, I take it as permission to reply in kind.
If you feel that the man reborn of Godly seed and the vessel of the Holy Ghost is somehow otherwise defiled, say what your deception commands you to say.

But the rational among us understand clearly what Paul was referring to. Considering Romans 7 and his comment about his body being "vile", we know he was referring to the very present sinful nature.

It isn't rational to accuse Paul of something that happened before his conversion and rebirth.
When, as he writes, "were in the flesh". (Rom 7:5)

I thought your claim was that Paul was only referring to physical dirt that needs to be washed off.

Sin defiles the temple of the Holy Ghost, dirt gets us dirty.
There are different perspectives to "defilement".

Of course He won't. That's why He can only reside in the new human spirit, the one that has been RE-born, RE-generated and IS sinless.

Agreed.
A human who has crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts...(the old nature). (Gal 5:24)

From biblehub.com regarding the word translated "vile" in Phul 3:21 -
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 5014: ταπείνωσις
ταπείνωσις, ταπεινώσεως, ἡ (ταπεινόω), lowness, low estate (humiliation): Luke 1:48; Acts 8:33 (from Isaiah 53:8); Philippians 3:21 (on which see σῶμα, 1 b.); metaphorically, spiritual abasement, leading one to perceive and lament his (moral) littleness and guilt, James 1:10, see Kern at the passage (In various senses, by Plato, Aristotle, Polybius, Diodorus, Plutarch; the Sept. for עֳנִי.
Your answers are pathetic and ignore very obvious meanings.

So a "vile" tomato is one that is humiliated, lamenting, and guilty?
A "vile" house fly that landed on your sandwich is humiliated, lamenting and guilty?
I fail to follow your meanings when misdirected to assassinate the reputation of Paul.

Why? Don't you believe that Christians cannot sin?

Because all men will be judged at the final judgement.
It is written..."... for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." (Rom 14:10)

Not even 2 Cor 5:17 says that.

It does if you believe what is written.
"...old things are passed away and ALL things are made new". (2 Cor 5:17)

No. It's your sinful nature that leads you into sin.

But that was crucified when I was killed with Christ. (Rom 6:6-7)
It is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin."
I know that is difficult to believe when one is justifying sin.
But give it a try.

James 1:13-16
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.
15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters.
James was addressing believers. And even James gets into the picture about believers who are deceived. He tells believers DON'T be deceived. But you already crossed the line with your unbiblical claim of being without sin.

I'm thinking he was writing to a mixed group of believes and posers, when read with the knowledge of the rest of his letter.
Besides, as Gal 5:24, the real believers have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts--(evil desires.)
No evil desires, no sin.

I said:
"Do you agree that there is a penalty for sin, or not?"
Then why can't you admit that being "free from sin" refers to being free from the penalty of sin"?

Being sin free is the only way to be free from its penalty.
If I don't tell lies, I won;t be judged for lying.

I said:
"Paul, the guy who describes his own flesh as vile is telling all believers to quit sinning. Which is only possible WHEN filled with the Spirit. But you just keep fooling yourself."

Agreed, and thanks be to God for allowing us to remain in the light--God, wherein is no sin.
Plus He provides escapes from every temptation !
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. (1 Cor 10:13)

Why would Paul tell believers to quit sinning? Your self deceived opinion is that Christians cannot sin.

Maybe they didn't know they were supposed to quit sinning,...like you?
Or more likely the audience were not all believers.

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

In addition to explaining exactly who is "in Christ" (believers only), v.14 is a verse about eternal security.

"Deposits" can be forfeited.

Those who claim to be without sin are self deceived and have no truth in them. So, how can they walk in the light.

There is no sin in the light--God, so sinners can't "walk" there.
If not non-sinners, who can?

Those who have no truth in them CANNOT walk in the light. Without truth means WALKING IN DARKNESS.

Exactly, sinners neither have the truth in them or walk in the light.

No person who claims to be without sin can make this claim.

If he is walking in the light, he can...or are sinners in the light?
Or is nobody in the light?

You are really fooling yourself. Those who do that cannot understand Scripture. As you demonstrate in every post.

As sinners can't walk in the light, and you believe there are no non-sinners, then nobody walks in the light.

Phil W · Apr 9, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
I said:
"Phil, you have indicated (by your responses to my questions) that you have no discernment between the indwelling and filling of the Holy Spirit."

Thank you for making my point. You DO have NO discernment between the two. But the Bible makes a clear distinction between the 2. There are no verses that equate the two, and there are no commanded to be indwell.

Those who AREN'T fooling themselves understand the difference. But the self deceived cannot discern the difference, as you freely admit.

I said:
"Now, the filling of the Holy Spirit is a command to be OBEYED. That's what commands are for; to be obeyed."

So, basically your salvation is in your own hands.
You cause the indwelling... or is it the filling?

Phil W · Apr 9, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
OK, one more time. Those who claim to be without sin are FALSE PROPHETS.

They are the false prophets if they day they have no sin but are still committing sin.
Those in the light--God, can say it because there is no sin in God.

Jesus is coming back for an unspotted, virgin bride.
Sinners will miss the boat, because they had no faith in what God can do on earth now.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 9, 2020

I said:
"Paul described his own body as "vile". Is your body vile a well?"
Could you just answer the question about whether your own body is vile? I don't care about either of your "hands".
So, your self deceived idea is that Paul was only referring to physical dirt and such."

Phil W said:
What do you believe from your deceived perspective?

Oh, this is a typical approach. Accuse others of exactly what you yourself are doing. John describes what you claim as being self deceived. Those are not my words. Those are John's words.

I am not deceived. I believe that those who claim to be without sin ARE self deceived.

If you feel it is alright to slander others, I take it as permission to reply in kind.

I'm only noting what John said about those who claim to be without sin.

If you feel that the man reborn of Godly seed and the vessel of the Holy Ghost is somehow otherwise defiled, say what your deception commands you to say.

I haven't said anything like that. So the deception is all on you. I said the RE-born human spirit CANNOT sin. And that is where the Spirit resides (indwells). I've made that clear; so ANY comment from you about my comments being different from this is just pure lying deception.

It isn't rational to accuse Paul of something that happened before his conversion and rebirth.

Actually, what really isn't rational is to claim Romans 7 refers to his unsaved life. He wrote in the PRESENT TENSE, so that opinion is absurd. Again, you are just fooling yourself.

When, as he writes, "were in the flesh". (Rom 7:5)

How about taking just a little peek at some context, ok?

5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.
6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

The red words describe the unsaved state.
The blue words describe the believer's state as of "right now", or "currently".

So, v.6 changes everything. Paul shifted gears from past tense to present tense.

I'll give you the benefit of doubt that you just missed this shifting gears.

Sin defiles the temple of the Holy Ghost, dirt gets us dirty.

Of course. That's WHY we need to confess our sins. For cleansing.

There are different perspectives to "defilement".

Well, there's those who are fooling themselves, and those who see the truth.

I'm thinking he was writing to a mixed group of believes and posers, when read with the knowledge of the rest of his letter.

You are free to fool yourself as much as you want to, but the audience in Rome is quite clear:

1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God—
2 the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures
3 regarding his Son, who as to his earthly lifewas a descendant of David,
4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.
6 And you also are among those Gentiles who are called to belong to Jesus Christ.
7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Besides, as Gal 5:24, the real believers have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts--(evil desires.)
No evil desires, no sin.

Again, how about a little bit of context. Just for the facts.

24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

The green words refer to the indwelling of the Spirit.
The red words refer to being filled with the Spirit, or walking by the Spirit.
The blue words clearly show that believers ARE subject to sin. So Paul warns them what not to be.

Being sin free is the only way to be free from its penalty.

Your confusion reigns.

Maybe they didn't know they were supposed to quit sinning,...like you?

You know this is a total lie. Why do you do such things? And you had just said this:
"If I don't tell lies, I won;t be judged for lying."

Since you KNOW that I've always acknowledged that believers are NOT to sin, your comment represents a LIE. So, again, you have shown your sinful nature.

Or more likely the audience were not all believers.

Just go back to the first several verses of ch 1.

"Deposits" can be forfeited.

So, go ahead and find ANY verse in the NT that teaches that the Holy Spirit can be removed from the believer. This is a direct dare.

Exactly, sinners neither have the truth in them or walk in the light.

John was clear. Those who claim to be without sin are self deceived and have no truth in them. v.8

As sinners can't walk in the light, and you believe there are no non-sinners, then nobody walks in the light.

Either you don't read my posts carefully or at all, or you are just being dishonest again.

ONLY WHEN the believer acknowledges their sin, confesses it (1 John 1:9) and then is filled with the Spirit are they walking in the light. That was John's message in ch 1.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 9, 2020

I said:
"Phil, you have indicated (by your responses to my questions) that you have no discernment between the indwelling and filling of the Holy Spirit."

Thank you for making my point. You DO have NO discernment between the two. But the Bible makes a clear distinction between the 2. There are no verses that equate the two, and there are no commanded to be indwell.

Those who AREN'T fooling themselves understand the difference. But the self deceived cannot discern the difference, as you freely admit.

I said:
"Now, the filling of the Holy Spirit is a command to be OBEYED. That's what commands are for; to be obeyed."

Phil W said:
So, basically your salvation is in your own hands.

No. So, basically, your reading skills need a lot of improvement if that's your conclusion from what I posted.

In FACT, it's YOUR self deceived view that concludes that your salvation is in your own hands. If you sin, you aren't saved. Regardless of having faith in Christ.

You cause the indwelling... or is it the filling?

Neither. The indwelling is a gift from God. So He causes the believer to be indwelt.

As to the filling, I've explained it. But, obviously, you STILL don't understand anything about it. Why is that? Because, as John said, you have no truth in you because of what you claim.

To be filled with the Spirit, which you have clearly indicated that you think is just another way to express the indwelling, your sins have to be confessed which cleanses you and provides forgiveness. Then, you need to pray for God's will, per 1 John 5:14,15 regarding the command to be filled. That is HOW to yield to the Spirit.

iow, one has to consciously want to be filled. It isn't automatic as you presume.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 9, 2020

I said:
"OK, one more time. Those who claim to be without sin are FALSE PROPHETS."

Phil W said:
They are the false prophets if they day they have no sin but are still committing sin.

No. John was clear, but you just keep fooling yourself.

Those who claim to be without sin are self deceived and have no truth in them.

Those in the light--God, can say it because there is no sin in God.

No one can say they are without sin, even John himself. He included himself in v.8 by using "we". That means ANYONE who claims to be without sin is self deceived and has no truth in them.

Jesus is coming back for an unspotted, virgin bride.

Yes He is. But that doesn't mean "sinless" as an on-going state of being, which is what you claim. Being "unspotted", or "blameless" refers to the believer's POSITION IN CHRIST. Eph 1 and 2 are all about POSITIONAL TRUTH, or what the believer has because of their position IN Christ.

But, you are just fooling yourself. John said so.

Sinners will miss the boat, because they had no faith in what God can do on earth now.

Others who will miss the boat are those who claim to be without sin, and have no need (in their self deceived mind) to confess their sins.

Even on this thread you've demonstrated your propensity to sin. Specifically, LYING.

One can act sanctimonious all they want. But to claim one is without sin is just self deceived and have no truth in them.

Gr8Grace · Apr 9, 2020

Phil W said:
To tell the fakes from the real prophets, we just need to heed Jesus' words form Matt 7:15-20...
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

If your "prophets" commit sin, they are not of God.

And Matt 7:15-20 describes your theology. A nice little pseudo sheep(I am sinless and that is salvation) that has doctrine that is false and saves not ONE person(ravenous wolf.)

Someone who claims to be sinless<<<<<a ravenous wolf. They put a subjective, ever changing NOOSE around the necks of unbelievers. And the Lord Jesus Christ simply asks them to Trust in His person and work for them.

Gr8Grace · Apr 9, 2020

Phil W said:
If you feel it is alright to slander others, I take it as permission to reply in kind.

See the tight rope you walk.........You just sinned.
1 Pet 3:9~~New International Version
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.

Col 3:8~~New International Version
But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

2 choices:

You responded in kind and slandered back~~~SINNER.

FreeGrace didn't slander and you responded with slander~~~~~SINNER.

So just try 1 John 1:9 once. I believe if we even say to God, " maybe I sinned.".....He is faithful and Just to forgive us and bring us back into fellowship. I KNOW a weight the size of an aircraft carrier anchor is going to be released from you.

I know I can speak for FreeGrace on this......we ain't in it to be right, we are here to advance His Word,Grace and Mercy. And it is FREEING.

Speaking on just my part....I have had to take and will take the humble seat because the Word has proved me wrong many times.

Gr8Grace · Apr 9, 2020

Phil W said:
Sin defiles the temple of the Holy Ghost, dirt gets us dirty.
There are different perspectives to "defilement".

For someone who claims to be sinless, perfect and as He is............There are no 'perspectives' of defilement. There is absolutely, positively NO defilement. Another contradiction.

Someone who claims to be sinless is obviously not that close to The Lord Jesus Christ. The closer we get to Him, the more we see how UNHOLY and SINFUL we really are. The closer we get to Him, the more we understand His Grace and mercy to us.....Because we are COMPLETELY defiled creatures compared to Him.

This is why it is imperative to know fellowship. And Live in our position in Christ.

We are living in a COMPLETELY defiled condition if we don't understand HOW to be and remain in fellowship.

Phil W · Apr 9, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
I said:
"OK, one more time. Those who claim to be without sin are FALSE PROPHETS."

So they are walking in darkness, which is sin. (Pro 4:9)
But what of those who are walking in the light, which is God?
As there is no sin in the light, which is God, they must also have no sin...or they would be walking in darkness.
Your definer of those who walk in the light or in the darkness hinges on what men say and not on what they actually do.
John is describing two differing walks.
Those in the light can say they have fellowship with God and that they have, by necessity, no sin.
Those walking in the darkness can say neither.

Others who will miss the boat are those who claim to be without sin, and have no need (in their self deceived mind) to confess their sins.

If, as 1 John 1:9 says, they confess their sins, aren't the sinners "cleansed of ALL sin"?
Why can't they acknowledge the goodness of God towards them?

I confessed my sins years ago, and have been enabled to continue, from that point, in the light--God.
I have been cleansed of all my past sins.
The same life in the light awaits all who will turn, permanently, to God.

Phil W · Apr 9, 2020

Gr8Grace said:
And Matt 7:15-20 describes your theology. A nice little pseudo sheep(I am sinless and that is salvation) that has doctrine that is false and saves not ONE person(ravenous wolf.)

Someone who claims to be sinless<<<<<a ravenous wolf. They put a subjective, ever changing NOOSE around the necks of unbelievers. And the Lord Jesus Christ simply asks them to Trust in His person and work for them.

What is an unbeliever?
Isn't it someone who refuses to submit to the will of God?
Someone who idolizes something above God's will?

Isn't a believer the opposite of that?

Phil W · Apr 9, 2020

Gr8Grace said:
See the tight rope you walk.........You just sinned.
1 Pet 3:9~~New International Version
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.

The writer of the initial statement must not have considered it an insult or it would not have been rendered.
Neither did I consider it an insult.
It was an observation.

FreeGrace didn't slander and you responded with slander~~~~~SINNER.

If it is slander, why didn't you get on him?
Oh, I know...he isn't disgusted by sin and actually accommodates it.

So just try 1 John 1:9 once. I believe if we even say to God, " maybe I sinned.".....He is faithful and Just to forgive us and bring us back into fellowship. I KNOW a weight the size of an aircraft carrier anchor is going to be released from you.

If I do that, won't I be able to say "I have no sin"?

Speaking on just my part....I have had to take and will take the humble seat because the Word has proved me wrong many times.

Thank you.
With that in mind, can a man who just had all his sins washed away buy the blood of Christ, (1 John 1:7), say he has no sin...or not?

Phil W · Apr 9, 2020

Gr8Grace said:
For someone who claims to be sinless, perfect and as He is............There are no 'perspectives' of defilement. There is absolutely, positively NO defilement. Another contradiction.

It is written..."Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

Make your perspective the one from in the light, wherein is no sin.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 10, 2020

Gr8Grace said:
I know I can speak for FreeGrace on this......we ain't in it to be right, we are here to advance His Word,Grace and Mercy. And it is FREEING.

Amen!! You certain can speak for me!

Speaking on just my part....I have had to take and will take the humble seat because the Word has proved me wrong many times.

It's all about the truth. No one wants to be wrong. Neither Phil, his bishop, you or I want to believe something that isn't true. That should be obvious.

But, the difference is what a person does when presented with truth. THAT is when the rubber meets the road regarding truth.

And we have seen over and over just how much Phil really doesn't want the truth. It reveals his own LACK of truth, and so he rejects the truth given to him.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 10, 2020

I said:
"OK, one more time. Those who claim to be without sin are FALSE PROPHETS."

Phil W said:
So they are walking in darkness, which is sin. (Pro 4:9)

A false prophet is someone who preaches false doctrine.

But what of those who are walking in the light, which is God?

They are IN fellowship with the Lord. And at that time, they are not sinning. But your claim is different from one who is in fellowship. Your claim has been, from the beginning, that you haven't sinned since salvation. That is what makes you self deceived and shows (proves) that you have no truth in you.

As there is no sin in the light, which is God, they must also have no sin...or they would be walking in darkness.

You falsely think that would be a continuous state of being. But it isn't. You deny that a believer can sin. Your claim that sin proves the person isn't saved. You are self deceived and have no truth in you.

Your definer of those who walk in the light or in the darkness hinges on what men say and not on what they actually do.

Nope. My "definer" is the Bible. Those who are in fellowship with the Lord ARE confessing their sins, which you deny that you do anymore. That claim is what makes you self deceived and proves that you have no truth in you.

John id describing two differing walks.

Correct. But you have totally mangled what he wrote and wrongly presume a "walk" is a continuous action. Yet I've shown you many verses that prove that believers still sin, and that is why believers need to confess their sins.

And you've shown that you don't have any idea what indwelling and filling of the Spirit are. So how can you even function as a Christian when you don't have that truth in you? You can't.

Those in the light can say they have fellowship with God and that they have, by necessity, no sin.

Only as long as they are in fellowship. But sin breaks fellowship just as much (even more) as walking into your friend's house with dog poo all over your shoes.

Those walking in the darkness can say neither.

Those who claim to be without sin as a state of continuous being can't either.

If, as 1 John 1:9 says, they confess their sins, aren't the sinners "cleansed of ALL sin"?

All the sin UP TO THAT POINT in time. What you keep failing to grasp is that they will sin again. Paul clearly showed that there is a struggle between the sinful nature (flesh) and the human spirit.

Why can't they acknowledge the goodness of God towards them?

Of course they can. But what YOU won't acknowledge is that sinlessness isn't continuous. Sin will occur and needs to be confessed.

And you dishonestly claim such an idea "promotes sin", which is beyond absurd.

I confessed my sins years ago, and have been enabled to continue, from that point, in the light--God.

Nonsense. You are only fooling yourself. Since you haven't confessed any of your sins sins "years ago", you've built up quite a list that needs to be confessed.

I have been cleansed of all my past sins.

Only up to the point of that confession. You're WAY LONG past due on all the sins that you've committed since then.

The same life in the light awaits all who will turn, permanently, to God.

Claiming that turning to God is meaningless when the claimer fails to acknowledge their sins. btw, David, as a mature believer, committed rape and murder. And when he was finally confronted by Nathan, he confessed those sins.

Mountainmanbob · Apr 10, 2020

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Everyone who turned to Him, everyone who seeks Him , today ,
is
granted by sheer grace even the desire to turn to Him, the desire to seek Him.

The ones who are not His sheep will never have a true desire to follow Him.

Some may attempt that on their own but, without a new heart given by the Holy Spirit they will fall away. Some of these types walked with Jesus and witnessed His miracles.

M-Bob

FreeGrace2 · Apr 10, 2020

Phil W said:
What is an unbeliever?
Isn't it someone who refuses to submit to the will of God?

No, not even close. But not surprising, since the Bible notes that you have no truth in you.

An unbeliever is anyone who doesn't believe that Christ is their Savior, who died for their sins on the cross, and saves their miserable butt from the lake of fire by giving them the free gift of eternal life.

You just keep demonstrating that your understanding of salvation isn't even close to what the Bible teaches. Your ideas about "submitting to the will of God" is dangerously close to what the Pharisees thought as well. And Jesus condemned them thoroughly.

They were full of works-salvation theology. They thought they could earn salvation.

Salvation cannot be earned. It is a gift.

Someone who idolizes something above God's will?
Isn't a believer the opposite of that?

Not necessarily.

Maybe you should consult a dictionary and learn what it means to believe. you clearly don't know.

Phil W · Apr 10, 2020

FreeGrace2 said:
Amen!! You certain can speak for me

It's all about the truth. No one wants to be wrong. Neither Phil, his bishop, you or I want to believe something that isn't true. That should be obvious.

But, the difference is what a person does when presented with truth. THAT is when the rubber meets the road regarding truth.
And we have seen over and over just how much Phil really doesn't want the truth. It reveals his own LACK of truth, and so he rejects the truth given to him.

Jesus said..."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:32-34)
Does your "truth" free you from committing sin?
It it does, it is the truth of Christ Jesus.
If not, it isn't true.

John 10:27 is a Policy Statement

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