Battling sin vs. Justifying sin (An explanation on 1 John 3:6, and 1 John 3:9).

Battling sin vs. Justifying sin:
(An explanation on 1 John 3:6, and 1 John 3:9):

Modern Translations will say practice sin or continue in sin in 1 John 3:9 (as if to say it is talking exclusively of practicing sin), but this is not the case in the trusted KJV (that existed hundreds of years long before the Modern Translations showed up). (Note: I am not denying that it can be in reference to habitual sin, but it is not exclusively referring to habitual sin but also singular or temporary sin, too.).

The key to understanding 1 John 3:9 is realizing that this "does not commit sin" is in context to the gnostic belief who think sin does not exist or that sin is an illusion in some way (See 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 2:26, Jude 1:4). Christian Scientists today think sin is an illusion. Eternal Security Proponents (i.e. OSAS - Once Saved Always Saved), and or Non-OSAS Sin and Still Be Saved Types (Free Will Baptists) think future sin is forgiven them by having a belief alone on Jesus. So while they believe sin may exist on a physical level, they do not think sin exists for them on a spiritual level because they believe Jesus paid for their future sins (When the Bible never says future sin is forgiven us). In other words, I believe it is those who justify sin in some way who have not been born again spiritually and who have never seen or known Christ and He (the seed) does not abide in them. 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 is talking about "willful sin" in Hebrews 10:26 in view or light of 1 John 1:8.

In other words, 1 John 3:6, and 1 John 3:9 is in view of "willful sin" or "justifying sin" in some way.

1 John 3:9 should read like this:


1 John 3:6 should read like this:


This would be in view or light of applying the context of the false gnostic belief that John warned the brethren about in 1 John 1:8.

Christians can battle with sin. This is why they need to confess of their sins in order to be forgiven of sin as per 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1-2 (cf. with: Proverbs 28:13, Psalms 51, Luke 15:18-21, Luke 18:9-14). But Christians are told to "sin no more" by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (John 5:14, John 8:11). The apostle John said to "sin not" (1 John 2:1).

Christians are to enter the Sanctification Process and put away sin by God's power.
It's why Paul said let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God (2 Corinthians 7:1). Romans 8:13 essentially says if we live after the flesh, we will die, but if we put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit, we shall live. Two ways are set before us. We either seek to justify sin and die, or we seek to put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit and live (live eternally). Both God's grace (confessing sin to the Lord), and in forsaking our sin, and battling against putting it away by His power and help (and by putting the Word on the inside of us) is going to help us to overcome and live holy in this life. 1 Peter 4:1-2 says he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (Note: I believe that the way they cease from sin was in the fact that they denied themselves sin, and prayed, and fasted, and suffered persecution for Christ); And this passage also says that we should live the rest of our time (here on Earth obviously) not to the lusts of the flesh, but to the will of God.

Paul says that they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24).
So we have to in time have the victory over our sin. The time for each believer on this is between that person and God. Every man is different. Only God can know a person's heart ultimately. But this does not mean we should not warn believers to keep the faith in Jesus, and or to confess and forsake sin and to battle against sin. For Jesus said that a person is in danger of being cast bodily into hellfire if they look upon a woman in lust (Matthew 5:28-30). But obviously many men who first come to Christ do struggle greatly with this kind of sin. So God is obviously patient and long suffering towards believer in them repenting (confessing of their sin with the intent of putting that sin away for good) (2 Peter 3:9). Believers must seek to overcome grievous sin in this life and not think that they do not need to worry about sin in this life.

In other words, God's grace is there for a person if they are truly seeking to battle and fight and put away sin. This does not mean that believers cannot stumble into doing a sin on rare occasion. Let me give you an example:

The drunk who has no intention of giving up his sin of alcoholism may join a drug program to take advantage of a family member, or temporarily quite them for a time. They are justifying their sin and have no real intention of reforming and or changing their bad behavior.

On the other hand, the drunk who joins a drug program to overcome their sin of alcoholism may stumble on rare occasion, but they pick themselves back up and they fight, and battle against their sin of alcoholism with ever fiber of their being and seek to conquer their sin.

The thing is that men have overcome the sin of alcoholism by drug programs without them asking God to help them. Imagine how much more God can do in a faithful believer's life because they have the living God residing within in them?

The majority view in Christianity is that a believer can commit grievous sin (on some level) and still be saved. They think God's grace is a safety net to sin in some way.

But is it biblical?

Well, to make a belief work that says we can commit grievous sin and still be saved, one has to ignore the many warnings in Scripture against those grievous sins that can lead to spiritual death, too.

The Bible’s teaching that serious sin is separation from GOD:

[God said to Adam,]
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:17).

[Eve said to the serpent,]
"But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (Genesis 3:3).

And the serpent said unto the woman,
"Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).

"...she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked..." (Genesis 3:6-7).

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." (Romans 5:12).

"For the wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23).

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2).

“...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.” (Matthew 5:22).

28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).

"But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul." (Proverbs 6:32).

“But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:15).

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)

Important Note: If you were to look at 1 Thessalonians 4:3 you would learn that the will of God (i.e. the Father) is to be holy or it is our sanctification; And Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

“22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:22-23 ESV).

“26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
(Matthew 7:26-27).

“15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20).

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26).

"he that commits sin is of the devil." (1 John 3:8).

"everyone who does evil hates the light." (John 3:20).

"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).

6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:6-7).

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4).

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now." (1 John 2:9).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

41 "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 13:41-43 ESV).

“For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” (Matthew 12:37).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
(James 4:6).

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21-22).

16 "There is a sin unto death..."
17 "...and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17).

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8).

19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).

5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affe
ction, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." (Colossians 3:5-7).

5 “...God;
6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law” (Romans 2:5-12).

“But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.” (Ezekiel 18:24).

9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. “ (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

Scripture has to be read as a whole (See: Acts of the Apostles 20:27). Clearly I would prefer to play it safe with my own soul and the souls of others and believe those verses on the warnings against how sin can destroy our souls than to make light of such verses and say that they mean something else (When they are plain in what they say). Also, we are told that we have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). Did Christ ever justify sin and think He was in favor with God? Surely not. So if we have the mind of Christ, then we cannot justify sin, either. It's that simple.

No offense to anyone out there, but I believe the whole chastisement excuse given by Eternal Security proponents is merely a smokescreen and is not true. The whole purpose of chastisement is correction. Like a dog who is rebuked for pooping on the carpet, the goal is correct or reform the animal to no longer poop on the carpet. So the chastisement excuse (given by Eternal Security Proponents) does not really change anything because when I have talked with Eternal Security Proponents before, they have told me that 1 John 1:8 is saying that that a believer will always have some kind of bad sin in their life; They also tell me that they will not overcome grievous sin this side of Heaven, as well. So what does chastisement do in this kind of belief? Nothing. They actually really believe that they can just trust in Jesus alone for salvation. If there is any kind of change towards living a holy life, it is not the one described in the Bible.

Will the Eternal Security Proponent please stand up and tell me what a holy life looks like that is saved? Can they tell me how 1 John 1:8 fits into that? Are they still saved if they still watch inappropriate content the rest of their life? Can a believer still watch inappropriate content and yet do holy things for God and still be saved? Can a believer lie the rest of their life and do other holy things for God and still be saved? Can a believer hate a certain brother, and do other holy things for God and still be saved? Some believers will say that no believer will justify sin, but they are not saved by works but they will just be changed to do good works, etc. They will live that holy life as a part of the regeneration. But is that still not saying that holy living is a requirement for salvation? Some do not believe you do not need to live holy for the Lord. But Hebrews 12:14 says that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.

Also, how does the "Eternal Security Proponent" (OSAS), and or the "Non OSAS Sin and Still Be Saved Individuals" (Free Will Baptists) account for Matthew 7:23, and Matthew 13:41-42?

The believers in Matthew 7:23 clearly were not doing what Jesus said as per Matthew 7:26-27. Sure, they did wonderful works in His name, but they also worked iniquity (lawless, or sin), too. This is why Jesus told these believers to depart from Him. He did not know them because of their sin or disobedience to God's commands (See: 1 John 2:3, and 1 John 2:4).

Matthew 13:41-42 also says a similar thing. Jesus (the Son of Man) will send forth His angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM all things that offend (i.e. those believers who make others to sin on the account of a wrong belief), and those who work iniquity (i.e. lawlessness or sin), and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

For stop and think for a moment.
If I am saved by God's grace and in it is nothing in what I do, this kind of thinking is going to lead me to believe that I do not have to change or live a holy life and that I can justify sin in some way. But we know Scripture warns us in Matthew 7:23, Matthew 13:41-42, and other verses about how sin will destroy the believer.

Also, the once a son always son (even if they sin) is not true according to His Word and or in real life. We are not talking about minor transgression here. If a father's child had committed mass murder, and they sought to kill even their own father, how could the child still be a son? The short answer is that they cannot be that way. A true father will not allow their son to mass murder others or to kill them and say that they are still a part of the family and are welcome (even if that son were to kill all at that family). Sin destroys. The devil wants to kill, steal, and destroy. Don't let him. Sin destroys people.

God has a list of sins that He attaches with warnings of hellfire or condemnation (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, 1 John 3:10, 1 John 3:15, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Revelation 21:8, etc.).

Phil W said:

The intention and clarity of what 1 John 3:9 means is defined by what 1 John 3:10 says.
It is the children of the devil who bring forth devilish fruit...at all.

Grape vines cannot bear figs.
God's seed cannot bear liars, thieves, adulterers, or murderers.

Click to expand...

I believe we cannot justify or abide in unconfessed grievous sin and still be saved. I am for overcoming grievous sin. I believe Christians do have the power to overcome grievous sin. That is the point of my thread. But some believers do need to battle against certain sins with God's grace and they are not always guaranteed instant success. Some people come from different walks of life and with different levels of sin that they need to put away. To not see this is to not see the whole counsel of God's Word.

For what do you make of 2 Corinthians 7:1?
What do you make of Romans 8:13?
What do you make of 1 John 5:16-17?
What do you make of James 5:19-20?
What about the Prodigal Son when he was said to be dead, and he became alive again by his own father in Luke 15?

For some believers, it is an overnight thing in walking in the power of God and putting away sin. Others it takes more time. But God's people are not without stumbling on rare occasion (although we do not seek to make such mistakes or say that we can falsely sin and still be saved). Moses struck the rock in hate, and he was kept out of the promised land, but he was no doubt given another chance. Peter (a chosen disciple) denied Christ. But he repented of his sin. So what of them? What of their rare bad fruit? They did not intend to sin, and yet, they were able to find forgiveness with the Lord. Even Peter made a sinful mistake again whereby Paul had to rebuke him, as well. Adam and Eve committed one bad sin, and it led to the fall of ALL of mankind. Were they created as bad? No. Men have a choice to either abide in Christ, or not abide in Christ. It's a daily thing to choose to abide in Christ. God does no force save us to be a certain way.

We are told:


We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

Why does Scripture tell us to do these things if we are automatic love slave robots? Sure, we are born again, and we do not desire to seek to justify sin if we are truly born again, but that does not mean a believer cannot fall away into sin and die spiritually for a time. The parable of the prodigal son and James 5:19-20 proves this.