The Restitution Of All Things

Scott Husted · Apr 9, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
God directs us to love all ppl, friend, neighbour and enemy. He tells us to turn the other cheek, to go the extra mile, practise patience and forbearance, grace. He hates an unequal measure, He loves righteousness, He is love and His grace abounds over sin, His mercy boasteth over judgment. He wants all mankind saved, all things restored and renewed, He sent His son to save the world from its love of sin which condemns it to death. His right arm is His Salvation and His Salvation is the end, the omega plan.

Is God a failure, a hypocrite, a liar and a psychopath? Or is He good and does good win? Can the lepers be healed, the dead be raised, and the prisoners be sprung from their dungeons?

I for one say He is indeed that good and unfathomably more.

What say you, friend?

If possible ... even more so.

Shrewd Manager · Apr 9, 2020

Scott Husted said:
If possible ... even more so.

Well as with God nothing is impossible, so you might be on to something. Superlatives are but poor tools in this arena.

Welcome to CF Scott. Do you merely hope for the salvation of all, or repose your measure of faith in it?

Der Alte · Apr 9, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
God directs us to love all ppl, friend, neighbour and enemy. He tells us to turn the other cheek, to go the extra mile, practise patience and forbearance, grace. He hates an unequal measure, He loves righteousness, He is love and His grace abounds over sin, His mercy boasteth over judgment. He wants all mankind saved, all things restored and renewed, He sent His son to save the world from its love of sin which condemns it to death. His right arm is His Salvation and His Salvation is the end, the omega plan.
Is God a failure, a hypocrite, a liar and a psychopath? Or is He good and does good win? Can the lepers be healed, the dead be raised, and the prisoners be sprung from their dungeons?
I for one say He is indeed that good and unfathomably more.
What say you, friend?

Was God turning the other cheek, going the extra mile, practicing patience and forbearance, grace and showing love in Genesis 19:24-25, Genesis 7:23, Exodus 14:28, Numbers 21:3, Deuteronomy 20:16-17, Deuteronomy 7:2, Deuteronomy 32:25, Jeremiah 13:14

Genesis 19:24-25 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Exodus 14:28 And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them.
Numbers 21:3 And the LORD hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities: and he called the name of the place Hormah.
Deuteronomy 20:16-17 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
Deuteronomy 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
Deuteronomy 32:25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.
Jeremiah 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

Shrewd Manager · Apr 9, 2020

Der Alter said:
Was God turning the other cheek, going the extra mile, practicing patience and forbearance, grace and showing love in Genesis 19:24-25, Genesis 7:23, Exodus 14:28, Numbers 21:3, Deuteronomy 20:16-17, Deuteronomy 7:2, Deuteronomy 32:25, Jeremiah 13:14

Genesis 19:24-25 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Exodus 14:28 And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them.
Numbers 21:3 And the LORD hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities: and he called the name of the place Hormah.
Deuteronomy 20:16-17 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
Deuteronomy 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
Deuteronomy 32:25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.
Jeremiah 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

It's axiomatic that God loves the sinner and hates the sin der Alter. Do you suppose the Great Physician is incapable of separating the sin and delivering the sinner as a new man in Christ? Is this not what baptism of fire and the spirit, divine revelation of amazing grace is all about?

So when God declares 'See I am making all things new', He is baptising the whole of creation in the divine presence, destroying the spiritual enemies of sin, death and hades in the blood of the Lamb that overcomes all. Glory der Alter, absolute and perfect. Time to rejoice.

FineLinen · Apr 9, 2020

Scott Husted said:
Long thread

One question with all this would be, does God require of us what he is unwilling to do himself?

Dear Scott: We are pleased you have stopped by for a wee visit. You should find your time here on the wonderful world of Christian Forums a rewarding experience.

The glorious expression of Abba on this "long thread" is only 47 pages. Enjoy.

Scott Husted · Apr 9, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
Well as with God nothing is impossible, so you might be on to something. Superlatives are but poor tools in this arena.

Welcome to CF Scott. Do you merely hope for the salvation of all, or repose your measure of faith in it?

Well thank you!

Well if nothing is impossible for him, that would simply mean he chooses to lose someone, and by his very nature to have been something that has always been to him, knowing the end from the beginning. As for me I suppose I wont know, because there will be no remberance of former things.

So guess I believe what John believed, behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
[

FineLinen · Apr 9, 2020

Scott Husted said:
Well thank you!

Well if nothing is impossible for him, that would simply mean he chooses to lose someone, and by his very nature to have been something that has always been to him, knowing the end from the beginning. As for me I suppose I wont know, because there will be no remberance of former things.

So guess I believe what John believed, behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
[

Dear Scott: Our Abba has determined to be the Ending. The powerful words in koine, ta pante, express it perfectly.

"Source, Guide, Goal of ta pante /the all."

We are living in a world today with the word "unprecedented" attached to the ghastly scene.

When our Abba declares "see I am making all things new", that newness is His answer to unprecedented dismay!

Scott Husted · Apr 9, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear Scott: Our Abba has determined to be the Ending. The powerful words in koine, ta pante, express it perfectly.

"Source, Guide, Goal of ta pante /the all."

We are living in a world today with the word "unprecedented" attached to the ghastly scene.

When our Abba declares "see I am making all things new", that newness is His answer to unprecedented dismay!

I to believe that the end is not an event.

FineLinen · Apr 9, 2020

“It may be questioned whether we understand the terms ‘forever,’ ‘forever and ever,’ and ‘everlasting,’ aright, for these terms are used in divers places as things that have an end and are understood in a limited and qualified sense.

These terms are too weak a foundation to build an assertion of everlasting hell upon, as concludes and shuts up God forever in wrath, never to come forth in the exercise of mercy.

Whether or not there is an ending is not revealed by the use of these terms.

O my God, Thou art love and canst no more cease to be so than to be Thyself. Take Thy own methods with us, and submit us to them. Well may we do so in an assurance that the beginning, the way, and the end of them all is love. I must believe then that Thy grace will super-abound wherever sin hath most abounded.” -Jeremiah White-

Scott Husted · Apr 9, 2020

FineLinen said:
“It may be questioned whether we understand the terms ‘forever,’ ‘forever and ever,’ and ‘everlasting,’ aright, for these terms are used in divers places as things that have an end and are understood in a limited and qualified sense.

These terms are too weak a foundation to build an assertion of everlasting hell upon, as concludes and shuts up God forever in wrath, never to come forth in the exercise of mercy.

Whether or not there is an ending is not revealed by the use of these terms.

O my God, Thou art love and canst no more cease to be so than to be Thyself. Take Thy own methods with us, and submit us to them. Well may we do so in an assurance that the beginning, the way, and the end of them all is love. I must believe then that Thy grace will super-abound wherever sin hath most abounded.” -Jeremiah White-

I agree, God is not measurable, which by necessity must be an absolute; a Truth that can be entered into as far as someone is willing to go.

Der Alte · Apr 9, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
It's axiomatic that God loves the sinner and hates the sin der Alter. Do you suppose the Great Physician is incapable of separating the sin and delivering the sinner as a new man in Christ? Is this not what baptism of fire and the spirit, divine revelation of amazing grace is all about?
So when God declares 'See I am making all things new', He is baptising the whole of creation in the divine presence, destroying the spiritual enemies of sin, death and hades in the blood of the Lamb that overcomes all. Glory der Alter, absolute and perfect. Time to rejoice.

IOW you can't address the scripture I posted so you resort to meaningless fluff and blather.

FineLinen · Apr 9, 2020

Scott Husted said:
I agree, God is not measurable, which by necessity must be an absolute; a Truth that can be entered into as far as someone is willing to go.

Dear Scott: if we can precede the measurable limitations with "un" of our unlimited God, perhaps we can begin to articulate the expanse of all He does.

Perhaps.

My friend, I behold the Unlimited God leading His creation in stages far beyond what they are capable to grasp.

Far!

Scott Husted · Apr 9, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear Scott: if we can precede the measurable limitations with "un" of our unlimited God, perhaps we can begin to articulate the expanse of all He does.

Perhaps.

My friend, I behold the Unlimited God leading His creation in stages far beyond what they are capable to grasp.

Far!

Me too ... yet anecdote to this understanding remains the same from the beginning.

Der Alte · Apr 9, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
....
So when God declares 'See I am making all things new', He is baptising the whole of creation in the divine presence, destroying the spiritual enemies of sin, death and hades in the blood of the Lamb that overcomes all. Glory der Alter, absolute and perfect. Time to rejoice.

As with all heterodox religious groups you quote bits and pieces of verses out-of-context trying to support false teachings. Let us read your proof text Rev 21:4,, in context.

Revelation 21:4-8
4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Although God said “no more death” vs. 4 “I make all things new” vs. 5 in vs. 8 eight groups of people are cast into the lake of fire, which is still “the second death”
Note in vs. 7 God specifies conditions “He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.” He does not say everyone shall inherit all things etc. The converse of that condition is, “He that does NOT overcome shall inherit NOT all things; and I will NOT be his God, and he shall NOT be my son.”

Justin [A.D. 110-165.] The First Apology. Chap. LII.
By Ezekiel the prophet it was said: “Joint shall be joined to joint, and bone to bone, and flesh shall grow again; and every knee shall bow to the Lord, and every tongue shall confess Him.” (Eze_37:7, Eze_37:8; Isa_45:24) And in what kind of sensation and punishment the wicked are to be, hear from what was said in like manner with reference to this; it is as follows: “Their worm shall not rest, and their fire shall not be quenched;” (Isa_66:24) and then shall they repent, when it profits them not.
Irenaeus [A.D. 120-202.] Against Heresies.Book I. Chap X. [Student of Polycarp, student of John]
1. the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His [future] manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father “to gather all things in one,” (Eph_1:10) and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, “every knee should bow, of things in heaven” and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess” (Phi_2:10, Phi_2:11) to Him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all; that He may send “spiritual wickednesses,” (Eph_6:12) and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, together with the ungodly, and unrighteous, and wicked, and profane among men, into everlasting fire;
Appendix to the Works of Hippolytus [A.D. 170-236]. XLVII.
Cleave to me, to whom every knee boweth, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth For all who have been negligent, and have not shown pity in well-doing there, have nothing else due them than the unquenchable fire. For I am the friend of man, but yet also a righteous Judge to all. For I shall award the recompense according to desert; I shall give the reward to all, according to each man’s labour; I shall make return to all, according to each man’s conflict. I wish to have pity, but I see no oil in your vessels. I desire to have mercy, but ye have passed through life entirely without mercy. I long to have compassion, but your lamps are dark by reason of your hardness of heart. Depart from me. For judgment is without mercy to him that hath showed no mercy.

FineLinen · Apr 10, 2020

"Without Easter, Good Friday would have no meaning. Without Easter, there would be no hope that suffering and abandonment might be tolerable.

But with Easter, a way out becomes visible for human sorrows, an absolute future: more than a hope, a divine expectation. " -Hans Urs von Balthasar-

The Great Deliverance

“In 1 Tim. 2: 5 & 6 we read, ‘For there is one God, and one Mediator of God and mankind, a man, Christ Jesus, Who is giving Himself a correspondent ransom for all (the testimony in its own eras).’

This scripture defines the purpose of God through the name Jesus. Thus God exalts His Son, so at the name of Jesus, the name which means that He is salvation, ‘every knee shall be bowing and every tongue shall be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord.’ Philippians 2:9-11.

The name of Jesus must not be held in contempt. It must be exalted. How could those who bow the knee and acknowledge Him as Lord ever thus dishonor the name of Jesus, which they would be doing if they were lost? It was Jesus who died to save them as He gave His life a correspondent ransom for all. God will exalt that precious name as He transports us all into the kingdom of the Son of His love.” -Guy Marks-

Jesus = Lesous = God is salvation

FineLinen · Apr 10, 2020

The Everlasting Gospel

“Col. 1: 16-20 teaches us the extent of the reconciliation made by Christ, namely, that it extends itself over the whole creation.

Therefore the fallen angels must also necessarily have their share in it, for they do incontestably belong to the invisible things created by Christ, and consequently to all things including the things in the heavens.

‘Jehovah is good to all: and His tender mercies are over all His works.’ Psalm 145:9

In this passage we are plainly told that the mercy of God, or His tender love, does not only extend itself to men, but universally towards all creatures that have their being and stand in need of mercy; and consequently also towards the fallen angels; which tender love of God must necessarily at last effect or bring about the restoration of all corrupt creatures, for it is not a weak or faint, but an almighty love.” -Paul Siegvolck-

“God’s purposes are so vast and glorious, beyond all guessing now, that when they are achieved and consummated, all our sufferings and sorrows of today, even the agonies that nearly break our faith, the disasters that well nigh overwhelm us, shall, seen from that fair country where God’s age long dreams come true, bulk as little as bulk now the pieces of a broken toy upon a nursery floor, over which, thinking that all our little world was in ruins, we cried ourselves to sleep.” -Dr. Leslie Weatherhead-

FineLinen · Apr 11, 2020

The God Of Unending Grace

“From the beginning God was and always will be a God of all grace. He purposes to be All in all of His creation; but every man in his own foreordained and previously marked out order. No doctrine is of God that does not include, ‘Having made known to us the secret of His will, according to His own benevolent design, which He previously purposed in Himself: that in the fullness of the ages He will gather together in one all in Christ, both those who are in the heavens and those who are on earth, even in Him.’

It is wrong to teach that this age of grace will soon end. In our redeemed bodies we will be righteous, and in the ages to come we will be teaching the grace of God to others.” -Sherwood Michael-

Jesus Reigns

“Christian tradition overlooks a key text that clearly quantifies the meaning of aion.

In 1 Corinthians 15:24, Paul tells us that Jesus will be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father. That’s not an eternal reign in any possible context. The clear statement that Christ ‘gives up’ the kingdom defines what the Greek noun aion must mean. Jesus is God’s mediator with mankind who reigns only until He gets the job done. That job is winning our conciliation with God.

Paul referred to Jesus as the eonian, not eternal God, and gave Jesus reign over specific time periods leading up to the conclusion of His reign. Clearly there is a progression of eons that have beginnings and endings. All eons end when Christ’s reign ends, after which what is eternal begins.” -Dusean Berkich-

Jesus Christ like Abba finishes what He begins!

FineLinen · Apr 11, 2020

“Of all the conceptions of the divine, of all the language Jesus could put on the lips of the God character in the story he tells, that’s what he has the Father say. “You are always with me, and everything I have is yours.” …

Millions of people in our world were told that God so loved the world, that God sent his son to save the world, and that if they accept and believe in Jesus, then they’ll be able to have a relationship with God…

But there’s more.

Millions have been taught that if they don’t believe, if they don’t accept in the right way, that is, the way the person telling them the gospel does, and they were hit by a car and died later that same day, God will have no choice but to punish them forever in conscious torment in hell…

A loving heavenly father who will go to extraordinary lengths to have a relationship with them would, in the blink of an eye, become a cruel, mean, vicious tormentor who would ensure that they had no escape from an endless future of agony… if your God is loving one second and cruel the next, if your God will punish people for all eternity for sins committed in a few short years, no amount of clever marketing or compelling language or good music or great coffee will be able to disguise that one, true, glaring, untenable, acceptable, awful reality… sometimes the reason people have a problem accepting “the gospel” is that they sense that the God lurking behind Jesus isn’t safe, loving, or good. It doesn’t make sense it can’t be reconciled, and so they say no… God create, because the endless joy and peace and shared life at the heart of this God knows no other way. Jesus invites us into that relationship, the one at the center of the universe… so when the gospel is diminished to a question of whether or not a person will “get into heaven,” that reduces the good news to a ticket, a way to get past the bouncer and into the club.

The good news is better than that.” -Rob. Bell (Love Wins}

Der Alte · Apr 11, 2020

To bad! None of these guys you quote are scripture, "Rob. Bell,""Dusean Berkich,""Sherwood Michael,""Hans Urs von Balthasar-"

FineLinen · Apr 11, 2020

“The theological function of hell … is to be a sacrament to the ultimate and real element of risk by which alone we can recognize a world ruled by love.

Universalism, as an overriding theological principle, is a false start.

On the other hand, if you ask whether there is in fact a hell - whether specific persons will actually go so far as to insist on a second death in the face of their resurrection by the supreme Lover himself - that's another matter altogether.” - Robert Farrar Capon-

The Restitution Of All Things

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Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Through him, in all things, more than conquerors.

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This is me about 1 yr. old.

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This is me about 1 yr. old.

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This is me about 1 yr. old.

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