LDS James 1:5

Rescued One · Apr 8, 2020

A pet verse of Mormons is James 1:5. And when you read Paul, what will you say?

Do Paul and James disagree on justification by faith alone?

I've gone over this several times, but Mormons are opposed to what Paul taught as if he contradicts James.

He is the way · Apr 8, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
A pet verse of Mormons is James 1:5. And when you read Paul, what will you say?

Do Paul and James disagree on justification by faith alone?

I've gone over this several times, but Mormons are opposed to what Paul taught as if he contradicts James.

I am not opposed to what Paul taught. Here are some of those things:

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 6:1)

1 WE then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 11:15)

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
(New Testament | Ephesians 2:10)

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(New Testament | 2 Timothy 3:17)

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(New Testament | Titus 1:16)

16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
(New Testament | Titus 2:14)

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
(New Testament | Titus 3:8)

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
(New Testament | Titus 3:14)

14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Rescued One · Apr 8, 2020

He is the way said:
I am not opposed to what Paul taught. Here are some of those things:

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 6:1)
1 WE then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

IOW, you like some of what he said when inspired by God.

He is the way said:
(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 11:15)
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Poor Joseph Smith!

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Ephesians 2:10)
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

10 For we are his workmanship,

He is the way said:
(New Testament | 2 Timothy 3:17)
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Only men of God will have works that won't become stubble.

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Titus 1:16)
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Hypocrites are not Christians. They only pretended to be.

1 John 2
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Titus 2:14)
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Amen! All glory to God!

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Titus 3:8)
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

The reason is apparent:
Matthew 5:16
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

John 15:8
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

1 Peter 2:11-12
11Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; 12Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

JUSTIFIED BY FAITH

Romans 3
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Romans 4:1-8
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Galatians 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

He is the way · Apr 9, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
IOW, you like some of what he said when inspired by God.

Poor Joseph Smith!

10 For we are his workmanship,

Only men of God will have works that won't become stubble.

Hypocrites are not Christians. They only pretended to be.

1 John 2
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Amen! All glory to God!

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The reason is apparent:
Matthew 5:16
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

John 15:8
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

1 Peter 2:11-12
11Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; 12Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

JUSTIFIED BY FAITH

Romans 3
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Romans 4:1-8
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Galatians 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

View attachment 274484

We are saved by grace after all that we can do. It is our duty to do the works God has given to us to do. Without the atonement we can not be saved neither are we saved without works:

(New Testament | Luke 17:7 - 10)

7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Our duty is to keep God's commandments:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

What happens to the unprofitable:

(New Testament | Matthew 25:22 - 30)

22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

(New Testament | Hebrews 6:10 - 12)

10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Rescued One · Apr 9, 2020

Part of the good we do is to not follow the teachings of false prophets who disobey God and add to His word.

That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Rescued One · Apr 9, 2020

He is the way said:
We are saved by grace after all that we can do.

This quote from the Book of Mormon proves that the Book of Mormon is NOT God's word.

Jamesone5 · Apr 10, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
This quote from the Book of Mormon proves that the Book of Mormon is NOT God's word.

I really chose as my screen name James 1:5 more as to the way to the seek God's Truth through Wisdom rather that the Mormon view on this.

It is ridiculous, as I have found, that God will deliver all truth to you though the BoM. But, they keep trying to sell that to unsuspecting converts, as if it is the way God wants us to do it. They think that it can be a one-time deal and neglect the work that Christians do--to desire to be guided into truth through a long process.

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come

He is the way · Apr 10, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
This quote from the Book of Mormon proves that the Book of Mormon is NOT God's word.

(New Testament | James 2:24)

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Rescued One · Apr 10, 2020

He is the way said:
(New Testament | James 2:24)

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Before men! Men look at the outward appearance, God sees and gives a new heart.

He is the way · Apr 10, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Before men! Men look at the outward appearance, God sees and gives a new heart.

View attachment 274538 View attachment 274537

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

He is the way · Apr 11, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Part of the good we do is to not follow the teachings of false prophets who disobey God and add to His word.

That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

(New Testament | Hebrews 6:10 - 12)

10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Rescued One · Apr 13, 2020

He is the way said:
(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Exactly: The only good works are those done by God in us.

He is the way · Apr 13, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Exactly: The only good works are those done by God in us.

In order to do the good works it is necessary to accept Gods word and and do His will.

Rescued One · Apr 13, 2020

He is the way said:
Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

10 For we are his workmanship,

(not our own)

Rescued One · Apr 13, 2020

He is the way said:
In order to do the good works it is necessary to accept Gods word and and do His will.

So you have to obey so you can obey??? :scratch:

I never heard that before.

He is the way · Apr 13, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
10 For we are his workmanship,

(not our own)

We are not our own, we are bought with a price.

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 6:9 - 20)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

He is the way · Apr 13, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
So you have to obey so you can obey???

I never heard that before.

It is necessary to know the will of the Father so we can do His will, therefore without God we can do nothing:

(New Testament | Matthew 7:16 - 23)

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Rescued One · Apr 13, 2020

He is the way said:
In order to do the good works it is necessary to accept Gods word and and do His will.

Explain:
You have to obey so you can obey.

Rescued One · Apr 13, 2020

He is the way said:
It is necessary to know the will of the Father so we can do His will, therefore without God we can do nothing:

Are you suggesting that Christians don't know God's will?

2 Timothy 3:16

He is the way · Apr 13, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Explain:
You have to obey so you can obey.

Without God's word (commandments of LOVE) we could NOT do His will. God gave us commandments so we could know His will and do it. He has commanded us to LOVE Him and to LOVE our neighbor. That is what He expects us to do.

LDS James 1:5

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

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