MorkandMindy

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As I understand it the Free Market is (was) an efficient mechanism for running the economy. It needed some add-ons to avoid some of the population starving or freezing, but for most people in the US and many other countries it worked very well.

The idea is each person by pursuing their own self-interest buying the lowest priced items of suitable quality, the most efficient suppliers would grow and suppliers who really didn't know what they were doing would end up working for the more efficient companies, and everyone would benefit and learn and the economy would self-optimize and many countries benefited from this system.

Edit - changed word 'people' to 'suppliers'
 
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Albion

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The idea is each person by pursuing their own self-interest buying the lowest priced items of suitable quality, the most efficient suppliers would grow and people who really didn't know what they were doing would end up working for the more efficient companies, and everyone would benefit and learn and the economy would self-optimize and many countries benefited from this system.

I don't know where the idea might have come from that the free enterprise system depends on "people who really didn't know what they were doing."

But that aside, you're not describing "greed" anyway, although that was what the title of this thread called our attention to.
 
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MorkandMindy

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But sometimes what was true for many years is no longer true.

Now a customer in the US and in a number of Western countries buying the lowest priced items is just sending money out of the country to the Far East. There is no way US companies can compete under the present system.

Keep buying things in at the rate we are and after a few decades our country will end up with no money and all the money will be in China, some other countries in the Far East and Germany and not here.

Mechanisms like 'run the presses' won't work once we exceed our assets any more for us than they do for any other country. At some time the opportunity to change to another form of World Reserve Currency will appear and everyone will change over.
 
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Albion

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But sometimes what was true for many years is no longer true.

Now a customer in the US and in a number of Western countries buying the lowest priced items is just sending money out of the country to the Far East. There is no way US companies can compete under the present system.

Keep buying things in at the rate we are and after a few decades our country will end up with no money and all the money will be in China, some other countries in the Far East and Germany and not here.

Mechanisms like 'run the presses' won't work once we exceed our assets any more for us than they do for any other country. At some time the opportunity to change to another form of World Reserve Currency will appear and everyone will change over.

OK. Let's see if I get your message now. It's not that free enterprise is wrong per se but that it allows greed on the part of some producers.

I suppose that's right, but it's not an inherent part of the free enterprise system, not something that is necessary for the system to function. I thought at first that you were saying the opposite, especially by highlighting the word "greed" at the start.
 
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MorkandMindy

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It is Globalization that has changed the rules, the playing field is no longer inside the country but includes other countries as well, and all the footballs have ended up a long way away.

Well paid manufacturing jobs are disappearing and this is already leading to less money being available for the Middle Class, the whole country is losing money.

The owners and CEOs it is true to say are snagging more money for themselves, but the nation as a whole is running up debts and the party even for the top of the economy will soon come to an end.

The really troublesome element in the whole thing is the delays produced by people and the nation running up debts. People want to have all the good things in the American Dream while not doing the work. It's not that we don't want to do the work, just that the top of every company, for greed is buying in everything from the lowest cost supplier abroad. And the customers and citizens of the country are not just allowing them to but actually doing the same thing.

(continued)
 
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timewerx

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The idea is each person by pursuing their own self-interest buying the lowest priced items of suitable quality, the most efficient suppliers would grow and suppliers who really didn't know what they were doing would end up working for the more efficient companies, and everyone would benefit and learn and the economy would self-optimize and many countries benefited from this system.

Ironically, the evolutionary path you're describing will ultimately lead to fully self-sustaining automation and eventually AI (artificial intelligence).

These very two concepts will ultimately challenge the notion of free market as these things eventually can function totally without human intervention and even without money.

This type of automation where machines can secure resources, raw materials, even find sources of energy, repair and maintain themselves, manage themselves, etc. All without human involvement.

They can practically manufacture goods for free (zero expense).

If machines can make things for free, totally function without us. Then what would be the point of making money from then on? When at such point, it would become entirely feasible to eliminate all poverty on Earth, unless we become blatantly selfish even if have become entirely useless in the age of AI.
 
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MorkandMindy

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If running up debts was not the way we keep our 'American Dream' and we could only send as much money out of the country as we are bringing in, then as our money flowed out it would devalue and if other countries didn't also 'play games' artificially keeping their currencies down in value, then

our dollars would lose value until we cost less and our exports recovered, and theirs would go up and their prices would increase and it would all balance out.

But instead our nation is running a big deficit and running up debts, and many people on fairly low incomes are running up credit card debts and those higher up the income ladder are still buying houses they can't afford, which I think is even more inexcusable, just because they want that 'Dream Home'.
 
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MorkandMindy

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Ironically, the evolutionary path you're describing will ultimately lead to fully self-sustaining automation and eventually AI (artificial intelligence).

These very two concepts will ultimately challenge the notion of free market as these things eventually can function totally without human intervention and even without money.

This type of automation where machines can secure resources, raw materials, even find sources of energy, repair and maintain themselves, manage themselves, etc. All without human involvement.

They can practically manufacture goods for free (zero expense).

If machines can make things for free, totally function without us. Then what would be the point of making money from then on? When at such point, it would become entirely feasible to eliminate all poverty on Earth, unless we become blatantly selfish even if have become entirely useless in the age of AI.

Very true, there are three ways ahead and it is possible the three will be followed not quite as alternatives but in sequence:

1 Andrew Yang has a plan for integrating automation into the existing economy

2 If people will just slow down on spending more than they have then the horrific (make of movie of this) scenario of the US going bankrupt can be avoided. I was worried when some candidates were talking about throwing many tens of Trillions of dollars at people to stimulate the economy, that greed would topple the economy before the automation saved it. Basically too much greed too soon.

And this was not an unrealistic fear, just look how close a big spender (many Trillions) got to becoming a candidate for President. I know heavily indebted people who really wanted their debts excused and higher pay, but the consequences of doing that right now would be very bad.

I have very little money but it is enough to live on. As Mohandas Gandhi said: there is enough for everyone's need but not enough for everyone's greed.

3 And then sufficient for everyone means people will no longer be grabbing as much as they can for themselves and people will be happy sharing and the overall demand on resources may actually go down.

My fear and I think most people have enough sense to avoid this, would be that greed would cause an accumulation of personal debt and trade debt sufficient to bring down the economy before the cavalry (automation) arrives.
 
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lsume

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As I understand it the Free Market is (was) an efficient mechanism for running the economy. It needed some add-ons to avoid some of the population starving or freezing, but for most people in the US and many other countries it worked very well.

The idea is each person by pursuing their own self-interest buying the lowest priced items of suitable quality, the most efficient suppliers would grow and suppliers who really didn't know what they were doing would end up working for the more efficient companies, and everyone would benefit and learn and the economy would self-optimize and many countries benefited from this system.

Edit - changed word 'people' to 'suppliers'
Please consider the logic behind what follows;
The Bible Says that the love of money is the root of all evil. The Word also States that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. I am praying that you will pray about this and that if it be God’s Will, He will open your eyes. There has been a fair amount of controversy over The Word of God that Speaks of material wealth. This response deals with a much weightier issue. Salvation is as you know a gift from God The Father and Jesus The Christ. Perhaps you have heard the interpretation of Mathew 19:24 explained as the eye of the needle being a difficult archway for camels to navigate through? Do you want to know The Truth? The question seems to have an obvious answer. However, if you have tried to practice Christ’s teachings for any significant time, you know that it’s more difficult than many know. There is one Truth in God’s Word. The only way to know that Truth is by being born again. God The Father will teach each and every child from the least to the greatest. Have you had the aforementioned experience in your life? Have you ever read a passage in The Word that you found to be difficult to abide by? When you as honestly as you can, seek The Truth, you will find The Truth. Right after Christ Spoke The Truth about rich men, the disciples ask “who then can be saved?” I do not think they would have asked that question were it about going through a difficult passageway. If you look up the quote in Strong’s Concordance KJV, you should find that the word needle came from sewing needle. You will probably find yourself rowing against the tide on this but if you seek the truth, you will find it. I’m praying you find it. Another example is in John 6. When Christ Said you must eat my flesh and drink my blood, He was Saying we must read or learn The Word of God for Christ was The Word of God made flesh. We must also be filled with The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was The Life Blood of Christ. The meaning of The Word is clear yet there is still controversy. God is not the author of confusion.

Matt.19
  1. [24] And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
 
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