Church landlord changes locks after pastor said he'd continue holding services

Tinker Grey said:

People renting houses have laws preventing unfair leases. I don't know of a law that prevents a church for kicking out an entity renting its facilities -- particularly if the lease were drawn up to allow it.

You are welcome to demonstrate that the state in which this story takes place has such a law. And while you're at it, please demonstrate that circumstances such as these don't supersede those protections.

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cow451 said:

These people are not residents. Let ‘em sue.

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When a landlord needs to evict a commercial tenant, they are required to abide by the rules of the Forcible Entry and Detainer (FED) statute. The same eviction process can be used for commercial and residential tenants. If you are evicting a commercial tenant in Colorado, you should be aware that self-help evictions are not allowed.

This means that commercial tenants can only be evicted if there has been a default of the lease agreement, and they have been notified of the default and been given a chance to fix the problem. A three-day notice is the most common term for an eviction notice. These notices can either be delivered to the tenant personally or can be posted on the commercial property.

Most commercial lease evictions will follow the same basic steps:

• A notice will be provided to the tenant.
• Once the notice has expired, the landlord can file a complaint with the court, which will then issue a summons that starts the process of judicial eviction. A disinterested party must deliver the summons to the tenant.
• The tenant must respond to the summons based on the deadline within. They will need to explain why they are not at default. If the tenant does not respond, the court will usually judge that they can be evicted

Commercial Lease Eviction: Everything You Need to Know

Need answers said:

When a landlord needs to evict a commercial tenant, they are required to abide by the rules of the Forcible Entry and Detainer (FED) statute. The same eviction process can be used for commercial and residential tenants. If you are evicting a commercial tenant in Colorado, you should be aware that self-help evictions are not allowed.

This means that commercial tenants can only be evicted if there has been a default of the lease agreement, and they have been notified of the default and been given a chance to fix the problem. A three-day notice is the most common term for an eviction notice. These notices can either be delivered to the tenant personally or can be posted on the commercial property.

Most commercial lease evictions will follow the same basic steps:

• A notice will be provided to the tenant.
• Once the notice has expired, the landlord can file a complaint with the court, which will then issue a summons that starts the process of judicial eviction. A disinterested party must deliver the summons to the tenant.
• The tenant must respond to the summons based on the deadline within. They will need to explain why they are not at default. If the tenant does not respond, the court will usually judge that they can be evicted

Commercial Lease Eviction: Everything You Need to Know

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how many here saying that the tennant has a right were the same ones freaking out about churches being forced to have gay weddings, or not be able to fire a atheist or such.

loveofourlord said:

how many here saying that the tennant has a right were the same ones freaking out about churches being forced to have gay weddings, or not be able to fire a atheist or such.

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huh?

Need answers said:

When a landlord needs to evict a commercial tenant, they are required to abide by the rules of the Forcible Entry and Detainer (FED) statute. The same eviction process can be used for commercial and residential tenants. If you are evicting a commercial tenant in Colorado, you should be aware that self-help evictions are not allowed.

This means that commercial tenants can only be evicted if there has been a default of the lease agreement, and they have been notified of the default and been given a chance to fix the problem. A three-day notice is the most common term for an eviction notice. These notices can either be delivered to the tenant personally or can be posted on the commercial property.

Most commercial lease evictions will follow the same basic steps:

• A notice will be provided to the tenant.
• Once the notice has expired, the landlord can file a complaint with the court, which will then issue a summons that starts the process of judicial eviction. A disinterested party must deliver the summons to the tenant.
• The tenant must respond to the summons based on the deadline within. They will need to explain why they are not at default. If the tenant does not respond, the court will usually judge that they can be evicted

Commercial Lease Eviction: Everything You Need to Know

Click to expand...

Well done.

Now the legal questions are: 1) does changing the locks equate to eviction, and 2) are these rules superceded by state mandates.

Tinker Grey said:

Well done.

Now the legal questions are: 1) does changing the locks equate to eviction, and 2) are these rules superceded by state mandates.

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The question is, why not call the Police or the Health department instead of changing locks illegally.?

Need answers said:

The question is, why not call the Police or the Health department instead of changing locks illegally.?

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If changing the locks doesn't equate to eviction, was it illegal? But yes, calling in the authorities might have been a better course of action.

Tinker Grey said:

If changing the locks doesn't equate to eviction, was it illegal? But yes, calling in the authorities might have been a better course of action.

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Its illegal to change the locks unless the tenant has first been legally evicted.

Tinker Grey said:

If changing the locks doesn't equate to eviction, was it illegal? But yes, calling in the authorities might have been a better course of action.

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The action the landlord took, while legally questionable, was much more effective at heading the problems that a gathering would cause off than calling the authorities to disperse it after it had already started.

Need answers said:

Its illegal to change the locks unless the tenant has first been legally evicted.

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Neither of the articles you linked says that as best I can tell.

essentialsaltes said:

Landlord changes locks on California church after pastor said he'd continue to hold services

Members of a central California church found themselves locked out of the bulding after the pastor originally kept his doors open, saying the shelter-in-place orders violated his freedom to assemble.

But within the past week, the landlord of the Cross Culture Christian Center in Lodi, Calif. changed the locks, so congregants couldn't enter the building for Palm Sunday services. The landlord is Bethel Open Bible Church.

[If I'm reading that correctly, the landlord is itself a church.]

A small gathering of congregants showed up Sunday; they had been poised to defy the shelter-in-place order. And they weren't pleased with the turn of events.

"I'm not thrilled in general with the restriction on religious liberties," said Jeremy Duncan, the pastor's brother. "Especially during what is Christian's most holy week."

His brother, Pastor Jon Duncan, had continued to hold in-person services despite the coronavirus outbreak.

“We’re going to meet as often as we can meet, and we do believe that this right is protected by the 1st Amendment and should be considered essential,” Duncan said in an interview with Fox 40 last week.

On March 25, Lodi police officers came to one of Duncan’s Wednesday services and told the pastor about county and state orders against public meetings, the LA Times reported

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The people who wish to defy the guidelines on social distancing by attending churches will of course protest that their rights have been taken away.

But this situation is not all about them. Social distancing measures were put in place to save thousands of people's lives in their community from a deadly virus.

They can help limit the spread of the virus, reduce the burden on hospital ITU's, and even reduce deaths, if they stop behaving recklessly and selfishly, thinking that they know better instead of following the advice that has been given.

Tinker Grey said:

Well done.

Now the legal questions are: 1) does changing the locks equate to eviction, and 2) are these rules superceded by state mandates.

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I'm not sure that blocking entry to the building would equate to eviction but would rather be considered that overcapacity of the building is a safety hazard. If a landlord knew that people being in the building could be hazardous to their safety and didn't take steps to keep them out the landlord would be in violation of the law. For example, there are capacity laws for buildings. Say a bar is legally given the capacity of 100 people for safety reasons and a landlord knows that an event is planned that will draw more than that capacity they could be held legally liable if they allowed the event to take place and people's lives are put at risk. Where there is a mandate put in place that disallows gatherings of more than say 10 people it seems to me that this is a similar situation.

Tinker Grey said:

Neither of the articles you linked says that as best I can tell.

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Well google it, i did and thats where i found answers.

Need answers said:

Well google it, i did and thats where i found answers.

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Well, in VA it is ok (though not recommended):Landlord Self Help: Can’t I Just Change the Locks on a Problem Tenant? — Wakefield Law

In commercial properties, the laws are slightly different. Virginia law does not specifically forbid self-help evictions for commercial properties, so it may be possible to evict a commercial tenant by changing locks or shutting off utilities. However, this practice is incredibly risky, and it is not recommended. First, the lease will control. If the lease specifies a procedure for eviction or specifically for
bids self-help eviction, the practice will not be permissible. Second, if there is not a valid claim for eviction under the lease, a court may end up siding with the tenant.

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In CA (where the Church in question is), only a 3-day notice is required: Evicting a Commercial Tenant in California | LegalMatch

So, a blanket "it's illegal" is not correct. Whether a church is bound by those laws, I haven't found out.

Tinker Grey said:

W
In CA (where the Church in question is), only a 3-day notice is required: Evicting a Commercial Tenant in California | LegalMatch

.

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Nope, it doesnt require a three days notice only. Thats just the first step.

What are the Steps for Tenant Eviction in California?

1. Send a “3-day notice”: Send a “3-day notice” to the tenant. This is a legal document that states that legal action will be taken in 3 days if the tenant continues not to pay rent or discontinue the lease agreement violation. The notice must include amount due and name of person in violation and notice of forfeiture of the lease if payment is not made within 3 days of the 3 day notice receipt.
2. Give the tenant opportunity to remedy the issue: The tenant has 3 full days after they have been served with the 3-day eviction notice to remedy the issue or they must leave the premise.
3. File an Unlawful Detainer Complaint: If the tenant still has not paid the rent due or stopped the violation of the lease agreement within the three days, the landlord now has the right to file an Unlawful Detainer Complaint.
4. Allow the tenants to move out: The commercial tenant will be served a Summons by a registered process server. Once the Summons is delivered and received by the tenant, the tenant has 5 days to vacate the property.

If the tenant still has not vacated the premises after you have successfully won the unlawful detainer, you must take the issue to trial. You cannot evict the tenant yourself by any forceful means in California.

But the case is not quite that of an eviction. What legal steps can a landlord take to abate an illegal use of his building besides eviction?

Speedwell said:

But the case is not quite that of an eviction. What legal steps can a landlord take to abate an illegal use of his building besides eviction?

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If its illegal call the cops, if its dangerous call the cops and the health department.

Need answers said:

If its illegal call the cops, if its dangerous call the cops and the health department.

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...or just change the locks to stop it before it starts.

Desk trauma said:

...or just change the locks to stop it before it starts.

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Or follow the law.

Need answers said:

If its illegal call the cops, if its dangerous call the cops and the health department.

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The cops had already been called and given the pastor the health department order not to hold services.

The pastor of the church which actually owns and uses the building for it's own services said,

“When the Public Health Officer issued an ‘Order Prohibiting Public Assembly’ we immediately took action to lock the building so that it would not be available for any public assembly." (emphasis added)

Here is the thing I just thought about, the church owner is liable for allowing someone to use their property in a ilegal way that could kill people.