Will the Levitical Priests make Sacrifices during the Millennial Reign?

HARK! · Apr 8, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
Are the Yahudims followers of the Lord Jesus Christ? Are they born-again Christians?

Yahudim is plural. You don't have to add an 's'. There is only one way to the father, and that is through Yahshua. To answer your second question, I would need to know how you define "born again Christian." Would those of 'The Way' and of the 'Sect of Notsri', be "born again Christians; as the word "Christian" didn't come into use until later.

No need to answer. I want to keep this thread on topic.

DavidPT · Apr 8, 2020

HARK! said:
I'm not very strong in my prophecy studies. I have been studying this subject; and I had planned on putting forth an opinion. I've decided that instead of taking a tremendous amount of time building a strong foundation on my own; that I would put forth the question, to allow others to help expedite building my understanding.

I'll start the conversation with this verse:

(CLV) Ezk 44:15
Yet the Levitical priests, sons of Zadok, who kept the charge of My sanctuary when the sons of Israel strayed from on Me, they shall come near to Me to minister to Me, and they will stand before Me to offer to Me the fat and the blood, averring is my Lord Yahweh.

Thanks in advance to all who will participate; and remember, fight nice!

I would like to bring up the following in order to try and illustrate a point here.

Ezekiel 47:12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

I'll be the first to tell you, these Ezekiel temple chapters are difficult to interpret. Even so, but, if we compare these two passages, for example, how is it even remotely possible that the former is not referring to the latter? And if it is, why would that part fit with a future time after the 2nd coming, but nothing else in the Ezekiel temple chapters would?

Let's do some comparing of these two passages.

And by the river upon the bank thereof----And he shewed me a pure river of water of life----In the midst of the street of it

on this side and on that side----and on either side of the river

shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed----was there the tree of life

it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary----which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month

and the leaf thereof for medicine----and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Currently I reject the idea that there could be sin sacrifices continuing post the 2nd coming, while at the same time I do not reject that Ezekiel 47:12 is meaning post the 2nd coming, because it is meaning Revelation 22:1-2, and that Revelation 22:1-2 is meaning post the 2nd coming. Obviously, I am not interpreting these things in a consistent manner, then. Regardless what one thinks of the sin sacrificing, does anyone deny that Ezekiel 47:12 is meaning Revelation 22:1-2? And if yes, what would be your reasons for denying it? And if it's not meaning Revelation 22:1-2, what is it meaning, then?

If you instead agree Ezekiel 47:12 will be fulfilled and that it is fulfilled post the 2nd coming, then we are back to where we started from. That being, why would this part in the Ezekiel temple chapters actually be fulfilled post the 2nd coming, but nothing else in those same chapters will be fulfilled at any time whatsoever? Speaking for myself I don't have a satisfactory answer for this. I have to wonder if anyone does, meaning those that reject the idea that animal sacrificing resumes post the 2nd coming, while at the same time, not rejecting that Ezekiel 47:12 is meaning Revelation 22:1-22?

HARK! · Apr 8, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
You are making God out to be a liar

Before this discussion goes any further, I won't tolerate this type of language. Read the footnote of the OP, and read CF rules. I'm going to bold it in the OP now to make sure that everyone understands.

HARK! · Apr 8, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
The reality is: the promises of the perpetuity of the throne of David and the priesthood have been fulfilled in Messiah Christ. He made one final sacrifice for sin and made the temple eternally redundant. He sits on David's throne upon high today.

Are you suggesting that YHWH's promise to the Levites ended with Yahshua? If so I'm not buying it. His promise of David is fulfilled in Yahshua eternally. Malki Tzedek is not of Levi.

(CLV) Jer 33:20
Thus says Yahweh: If you could annul My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night so that daytime and night fail to come about in their proper time,

(CLV) Jer 33:21
then also My covenant could be annulled with David My servant, so that he should not come to have a son reigning on his throne, and that with the Levites, the priests, My ministers.

Night and day are still here.

sovereigngrace · Apr 8, 2020

HARK! said:
Are you suggesting that YHWH's promise to the Levites ended with Yahshua? If so I'm not buying it. His promise of David is fulfilled in Yahshua eternally. Malki Tzedek is not of Levi.

(CLV) Jer 33:20
Thus says Yahweh: If you could annul My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night so that daytime and night fail to come about in their proper time,

(CLV) Jer 33:21
then also My covenant could be annulled with David My servant, so that he should not come to have a son reigning on his throne, and that with the Levites, the priests, My ministers.

Night and day are still here.

You did not address one of my points.

HARK! · Apr 8, 2020

DavidPT said:
I would like to bring up the following in order to try and illustrate a point here.

Ezekiel 47:12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

I'll be the first to tell you, these Ezekiel temple chapters are difficult to interpret. Even so, but, if we compare these two passages, for example, how is it even remotely possible that the former is not referring to the latter?

I believe that they are one in the same.

DavidPT said:
And if it is, why would that part fit with a future time after the 2nd coming, but nothing else in the Ezekiel temple chapters would?

OK, I'm a bit confused by this question. Again, I'm not well studied in prophecy.

I'll explain my simple understanding of the timeline. Yahshua died and rose. He went to be with the Father. That puts us in a time of darkness. Trouble comes. 2 Witnesses are somewhere in there. Yahshua comes back. He prevails. He rules on earth for a time. An evil entity is released. There is another battle. The Earthly Kingdom moves to heaven. Yahshua turns all authority and power back to the father; and we are all one with the father, all in all, through Yahshua. I'm sure I missed some important details; but I suspect that I'm rather close in my estimation of the sequence of events.

DavidPT said:
Currently I reject the idea that there could be sin sacrifices continuing post the 2nd coming, while at the same time I do not reject that Ezekiel 47:12 is meaning post the 2nd coming, because it is meaning Revelation 22:1-2, and that Revelation 22:1-2 is meaning post the 2nd coming. Obviously, I am not interpreting these things in a consistent manner, then. Regardless what one thinks of the sin sacrificing, does anyone deny that Ezekiel 47:12 is meaning Revelation 22:1-2? And if yes, what would be your reasons for denying it? And if it's not meaning Revelation 22:1-2, what is it meaning, then?

If you instead agree Ezekiel 47:12 will be fulfilled and that it is fulfilled post the 2nd coming, then we are back to where we started from. That being, why would this part in the Ezekiel temple chapters actually be fulfilled post the 2nd coming, but nothing else in those same chapters will be fulfilled at any time whatsoever? Speaking for myself I don't have a satisfactory answer for this. I have to wonder if anyone does, meaning those that reject the idea that animal sacrificing resumes post the 2nd coming, while at the same time, not rejecting that Ezekiel 47:12 is meaning Revelation 22:1-21?

This part makes my head spin. You'll have to take baby steps with me. To my understanding Yahshua's earthly reign and the heavenly kingdom both come after Yahshua's second coming.

HARK! · Apr 8, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
You did not address one of my points.

I'm here to learn. If you can't answer the question; that's OK. Maybe someone more learned will address your points.

jgr · Apr 8, 2020

createdtoworship said:
I think most christian premillenialists that I know of don't look the reinstitution of jewish sacrifice as blasphemy, most view it as a symbolic action. After all Jesus himself will be on the throne of david as prophecied. I don't think they will go into the temple where Jesus is and try to sacrifice another atonement offering. There is only one atonement now, it's Christ's blood. Rather God is keeping his promise that the temple will be rebuilt and fully functional, and that involves the sacrifices. But just as you can burn incense and it can be a sweet smelling aroma, so too sacrifice is a pleasing thing to God. Especially when done by His people, and in a manner prescribed in the Bible.

Scripture disagrees.

Hebrews 10
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

jgr · Apr 8, 2020

createdtoworship said:
Rather God is keeping his promise that the temple will be rebuilt and fully functional, and that involves the sacrifices.

God has already rendered a singularly convincing verdict.

Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII

Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and opressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.

DavidPT · Apr 8, 2020

HARK! said:
I believe that they are one in the same.

OK, I'm a bit confused by this question. Again, I'm not well studied in prophecy.

I'll explain my simple understanding of the timeline. Yahshua died and rose. He went to be with the Father. That puts us in a time of darkness. Trouble comes. 2 Witnesses are somewhere in there. Yahshua comes back. He prevails. He rules on earth for a time. An evil entity is released. There is another battle. The Earthly Kingdom moves to heaven. Yahshua turns all authority and power back to the father; and we are all one with the father, all in all, through Yahshua. I'm sure I missed some important details; but I suspect that I'm rather close in my estimation of the sequence of events.

This part makes my head spin. You'll have to take baby steps with me. To my understanding Yahshua's earthly reign and the heavenly kingdom both come after Yahshua's second coming.

Maybe the following will help you to get on the same page with me, thus less head spinning on your part?

I'm Premil, which means that I take there to be a thousand year period after the 2nd coming. Except I currently reject the idea that animal sacrificing will be resuming during this time. While at the same time, I don't reject that Ezekiel 47:12 is meaning Revelation 22:1-2, though, and that that is post the 2nd coming.

There are also some, generally called Amils, that don't even believe there is a thousand years after the 2nd coming, therefore their interpretation alone doesn't allow for the idea of there being animal sacrificing post the 2nd coming. Yet, I'm betting that even some of them likely do not deny that Ezekiel 47:12 is meaning Revelation 22:1-2. We then have two groups of people in the same boat, so to speak, but in different ways.

One group is like me, where we believe there is a thousand years after the 2nd coming, yet reject the idea of animal sacrificing resuming during this time, while accepting that Ezekiel 47:12 is meaning Revelation 22:1-2, and that the former is post the 2nd coming because the latter is.

The other group being these Amils that reject that there is a thousand years after the 2nd coming, thus their interpretation doesn't allow for there to be animal sacrificing after the thousand years, while accepting that Ezekiel 47:12 is meaning Revelation 22:1-2, and that the former is post the 2nd coming because the latter is.

Which was one of the points I was trying to illustrate. Why would we think Ezekiel 47:12 would be fulfilled post the 2nd coming, but nothing else in the Ezekiel temple chapters will be fulfilled at any time whatsoever? I don't have a satisfactory answer for that. I simply can't picture animal sacrificing resuming post the 2nd coming, while at the same time, I can easily picture Ezekiel 47:12 being fulfilled post the 2nd coming.

sovereigngrace · Apr 8, 2020

HARK! said:
Before this discussion goes any further, I won't tolerate this type of language. Read the footnote of the OP, and read CF rules. I'm going to bold it in the OP now to make sure that everyone understands.

It is not my intent to cause unnecessary offense. So I have removed that line from my post. My apologies.

HARK! · Apr 8, 2020

jgr said:
God has already rendered a singularly convincing verdict.

Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII

Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and opressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.

Let's work on the presumption that this story is completely true as stated. That would include the presumption that this was an act of YHWH; even though it doesn't seem that YHWH told anyone that he did it.

Just because YHWH did not allow a temple to be built outside of his timing; does not mean that YHWH will disallow a temple to be built within his timing.

sovereigngrace · Apr 8, 2020

HARK! said:
Are you suggesting that YHWH's promise to the Levites ended with Yahshua? If so I'm not buying it. His promise of David is fulfilled in Yahshua eternally. Malki Tzedek is not of Levi.

(CLV) Jer 33:20
Thus says Yahweh: If you could annul My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night so that daytime and night fail to come about in their proper time,

(CLV) Jer 33:21
then also My covenant could be annulled with David My servant, so that he should not come to have a son reigning on his throne, and that with the Levites, the priests, My ministers.

Night and day are still here.

It was all fulfilled in Christ. He is our prophet, priest and king. That is why they have no more need of an old covenant priest or king. There is nothing greater emphasized in the New Testament than how Christ is heir to all the Old Testament promises and prophecies relating to the promised Messiah. Throughout it we repeatedly see it stated that Christ was here to fulfil a foreordained plan. He was indeed a man on a mission. Our Lord’s whole life from the cradle to the cross, and thereafter, was a catalogue of confirmations of Old Testament truth. Jesus continually stressed the importance of accomplished prophecy, by stating “It is written” or asking “Have ye not read?” He would then follow this preamble up with a quote from the Hebrew text in order to explain a truth, reinforce a point or prove a fulfilment.

Jesus reveals, in Matthew 13:17, that the old covenant prophets and righteous leaders longed for His day, asserting: “verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.” He was the long-anticipated deliver of Israel. Nathanael testified to Philip in John 1:45: “We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.” Our Lord accomplished every expectation that the Old Testament writers predicted.

Jesus famously rebuked the two downcast disciples on the road to Emmaus on resurrection day, stating: “O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?” (Luke 24:25-26). After this, he began to open their eyes to the meaning of the sacred pages. Luke 24:25 records: “And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.”

His intent was to confirm that He completed every demand that was made of Him from the ancient inspired pages. His life was the perfect realization of predicted Old Testament prophecy.

The New Testament writers were equally aware of the importance of Old Testament prophecy and its focus on the life and ministry of Christ. They often referenced the Hebrew text to reinforce the fulfillment of numerous Old Testament predictions pertaining to the life of Jesus. Matthew especially brings this out.

Matthew 1:22 records, “all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet.”

Matthew 2:15 says, “that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet.”

Matthew 2:23 declares, “that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets.”

Matthew 4:14 says, “That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet.”

Matthew 8:17 says, “That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet.”

Matthew 12:17 says, “That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet.”

Matthew 13:35 records, “That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet.”

Matthew 21:4 declares, “All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet.”

Matthew 26:56 says, “all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.”

Matthew 27:35 says, “that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet.”

But elsewhere statements are made by Christ proving His Messianic fulfilment. Jesus testified in Luke 18:31: “Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.”

Jesus said in Luke 22:22: “truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined.”

Jesus affirmed in Luke 22:37: “this that is written must yet be accomplished in me.”

Jesus tells us in Luke 24:46: “Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day.”

Jesus instructed in John 5:39: “Search the scriptures … they are they which testify of me.”

Acts 3:18 testifies: “those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.”

Acts 13:29 records: “when they had fulfilled all that was written of him.”

1 Corinthians 15:3 and 4 make two references to key elements of our Lord’s ministry, adding the suffix: “according to the scriptures.”

Daniel9v9 · Apr 8, 2020

Our Lord Jesus Christ reigns now; He is seated at the right hand of God and the Gospel is proclaimed throughout the world.

The Gospel does not allow for a third temple, because Christ - His body - is the new and true temple. In the words of our Lord:

"A time is coming when you will not worship the Father on this mountain or in Jerusalem. ... But a time is coming and now is here when the real worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for those are the kind of worshippers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth."

sovereigngrace · Apr 8, 2020

HARK! said:
Let's work on the presumption that this story is completely true as stated. That would include the presumption that this was an act of YHWH; even though it doesn't seem that YHWH told anyone that he did it.

Just because YHWH did not allow a temple to be built outside of his timing; does not mean that YHWH will disallow a temple to be built within his timing.

.. but for what purpose? Christ is the realization of the shadow, symbol, and type. He is the ultimate fulfillment. He is the eternal temple. Is He not enough? Is He not acceptable enough? Do you need something greater?

Hebrews 9:9-11 says of the old covenant, “for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building.”

The idea that Ezekiel is predicting a return to old covenant worship and the widespread slaughter of animals in a future millennium is preposterous and is dismissed by numerous explicit New Testament Scripture. Why would God restore animal sacrifices when He sent His Son to make one final all-sufficient sacrifice for sin? Jesus did away with any need or reliance upon the outward keeping of the old covenant religious system. The cross fulfilled forever God’s demand for a perfect once-for-all sacrifice.

HARK! · Apr 8, 2020

DavidPT said:
Maybe the following will help you to get on the same page with me, thus less head spinning on your part?

I'm Premil, which means that I take there to be a thousand year period after the 2nd coming. Except I currently reject the idea that animal sacrificing will be resuming during this time. While at the same time, I don't reject that Ezekiel 47:12 is meaning Revelation 22:1-2, though, and that that is post the 2nd coming.

There are also some, generally called Amils, that don't even believe there is a thousand years after the 2nd coming, therefore their interpretation alone doesn't allow for the idea of there being animal sacrificing post the 2nd coming. Yet, I'm betting that even some of them likely do not deny that Ezekiel 47:12 is meaning Revelation 22:1-2. We then have two groups of people in the same boat, so to speak, but in different ways.

One group is like me, where we believe there is a thousand years after the 2nd coming, yet reject the idea of animal sacrificing resuming during this time, while accepting that Ezekiel 47:12 is meaning Revelation 22:1-2, and that the former is post the 2nd coming because the latter is.

The other group being these Amils that reject that there is a thousand years after the 2nd coming, thus their interpretation doesn't allow for there to be animal sacrificing after the thousand years, while accepting that Ezekiel 47:12 is meaning Revelation 22:1-2, and that the former is post the 2nd coming because the latter is.

Which was one of the points I was trying to illustrate. Why would we think Ezekiel 47:12 would be fulfilled post the 2nd coming, but nothing else in the Ezekiel temple chapters will be fulfilled at any time whatsoever? I don't have a satisfactory answer for that. I simply can't picture animal sacrificing resuming post the 2nd coming, while at the same time, I can easily picture Ezekiel 47:12 being fulfilled post the 2nd coming.

Thank you for taking the time to spell this out for me. It was very helpful.

In the past I have believed that the tree accounts were one in the same. I hadn't considered one being on earth, as a type and shadow of one in the final Kingdom. This gives me something to think about; as I get deeper into study on these subjects.

What I don't understand is how the tree, or trees, is relevant to the OP.

If by your estimation, which seems to be the majority opinion (if you think I subscribe to argumentum ad populum... well let's just say that I'm highly critical.), the sacrifices don't take place in either kingdom; to what do the prophets refer?

HARK! · Apr 8, 2020

Daniel9v9 said:
Our Lord Jesus Christ reigns now; He is seated at the right hand of God and the Gospel is proclaimed throughout the world.

The Gospel does not allow for a third temple, because Christ - His body - is the new and true temple. In the words of our Lord:

"A time is coming when you will not worship the Father on this mountain or in Jerusalem. ... But a time is coming and now is here when the real worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for those are the kind of worshippers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth."

When and where does this happen?

(CLV) Zch 14:16
And it will come to be that everyone left of all the nations coming against Jerusalem, they will also go up, as often as year by year, to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:17
And it will come, whoever shall not go up from the families of the earth, to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, then the downpour shall not come on them.

(CLV) Zch 14:18
And if a family of Egypt shall not go up, and will not come, then it will not be on them; there shall come the stroke with which Yahweh shall strike the nations which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:19
This shall be the sin of Egypt, and the sin of all the nations which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:20
In that day there shall be on the horse shades: Holy to Yahweh. And the pots in the house of Yahweh will be like the sprinkling bowls before the altar.

(CLV) Zch 14:21
And every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will come to be holy to Yahweh of hosts. And all who are sacrificing will come and take of them and cook in them. And not longer shall there be a trafficker in the house of Yahweh of hosts, in that day.

sovereigngrace · Apr 8, 2020

HARK! said:
When and where does this happen?

(CLV) Zch 14:16
And it will come to be that everyone left of all the nations coming against Jerusalem, they will also go up, as often as year by year, to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:17
And it will come, whoever shall not go up from the families of the earth, to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, then the downpour shall not come on them.

(CLV) Zch 14:18
And if a family of Egypt shall not go up, and will not come, then it will not be on them; there shall come the stroke with which Yahweh shall strike the nations which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:19
This shall be the sin of Egypt, and the sin of all the nations which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

(CLV) Zch 14:20
In that day there shall be on the horse shades: Holy to Yahweh. And the pots in the house of Yahweh will be like the sprinkling bowls before the altar.

(CLV) Zch 14:21
And every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will come to be holy to Yahweh of hosts. And all who are sacrificing will come and take of them and cook in them. And not longer shall there be a trafficker in the house of Yahweh of hosts, in that day.

Christ is the fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles, as Jesus delivered us from spiritual bondage, which Egypt symbolizes. There is no lapse back to abolished OT rituals, i.e. animal sacrifices. When people submit their lives to Him then blessing ensues. When they reject Christ then judgement ensues. That is all Zechariah 14 is saying. Simple!

Christ’s appearance at His First Advent was the fulfilment of the Feast of Tabernacles. Christ has become our permanent resting place and covering (Hebrews 4). There is no need to introduce and old impotent system that Christ abolished in His person and ministry. Zechariah basically described spiritual truths pertaining to the new covenant period in terms he was familiar with. He was not blessed with a full revelation of atoning work of Christ. Whilst the OT saints had a veil over them in regard to the new covenant we today have the benefit of looking back and seeing that fulfillment in Christ. There is therefore no return to OT rituals or temple sacrifices in Zechariah 14 but rather a veiled prediction of what Christ accomplished at the cross.

Jesus said to the woman of Samaria, in John 4:21-24, “the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father ... But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

What Christ was teaching here was that a new economy was being introduced through His earthly ministry that would forever replace the old. No longer would the worship of the living God be restricted to a natural geographical land-mass or be centered upon a physical temporal brick building built with hands in earthly Jerusalem, rather, it would now be concentrated in a spiritual eternal temple (the redeemed Church) which is spiritual located within the heavenly New Jerusalem. That temple would not be restricted to one physical nation but would be situated throughout all the nations of the world.

jgr · Apr 9, 2020

HARK! said:
Let's work on the presumption that this story is completely true as stated. That would include the presumption that this was an act of YHWH; even though it doesn't seem that YHWH told anyone that he did it.

Those involved were certainly convinced that He did it.

I'm certainly convinced that He did it.

Whom do you think did it?

HARK! said:
Just because YHWH did not allow a temple to be built outside of his timing; does not mean that YHWH will disallow a temple to be built within his timing.

Those who wish to roll the dice may certainly do so.

I'm stocked up on popcorn.

HARK! · Apr 9, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
Christ is the fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles, as Jesus delivered us from spiritual bondage, which Egypt symbolizes. There is no lapse back to abolished OT rituals, i.e. animal sacrifices. When people submit their lives to Him then blessing ensues. When they reject Christ then judgement ensues. That is all Zechariah 14 is saying. Simple!

It's just that simple? Let's take a closer look.

When and where does this happen? Since you really didn't answer the question; I'm assuming that you're saying right now.

(CLV) Zch 14:16
And it will come to be that everyone left of all the nations coming against Jerusalem, they will also go up, as often as year by year, to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to celebrate the festival of booths.

Is the Sukkot nothing more than a ritual to you?

FEAST OF TABERNACLES (Booths / Sukkot)

And ye shall keep it a feast unto YHWH seven days in the year. It shall be a statute FOREVER in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.(Leviticus 23:41)

Why isn't everyone in the world celebrating it every year right now? Why is there no judgement right now?

(CLV) Zch 14:17
And it will come, whoever shall not go up from the families of the earth, to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, then the downpour shall not come on them.

Are these families not going to Jerusalem, or to heaven; and what is this downpour?

(CLV) Zch 14:18
And if a family of Egypt shall not go up, and will not come, then it will not be on them; there shall come the stroke with which Yahweh shall strike the nations which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

Strike the nations, individually....are there individual nations in heaven; or all we all one?

(CLV) Zch 14:19
This shall be the sin of Egypt, and the sin of all the nations which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.

If Egypt symbolizes spiritual bondage (Is there such a thing in heaven?) ; what do all of these other nations symbolize?

(CLV) Zch 14:20
In that day there shall be on the horse shades: Holy to Yahweh. And the pots in the house of Yahweh will be like the sprinkling bowls before the altar.

(CLV) Zch 14:21
And every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will come to be holy to Yahweh of hosts. And all who are sacrificing will come and take of them and cook in them. And not longer shall there be a trafficker in the house of Yahweh of hosts, in that day.

Why is the word sacrificing used here; what will this symbolize in heaven? Will there be sin there. Will the heathens need to be purified there? This doesn't seem quite so simple to me.

Will the Levitical Priests make Sacrifices during the Millennial Reign?

Will the Levitical Priests make Sacrifices during the Millennial Reign?

Yes

No

I don't understand the question.

שמע

Well-Known Member

שמע

שמע

Well-Known Member

שמע

שמע

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

שמע

Well-Known Member

†

Well-Known Member

שמע

שמע

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

שמע

Similar threads