How does a person apply the righteousness of God and or the cleansing blood of Christ?

Behold said:

No person "applies" the grace of God. As to infer this, is to teach that the Grace of God is something you have, of yourself, that you do for yourself, like putting on a shirt.
Thats impossible.

The Grace of God, is God's Gift of the Blood Atonement.
He alone imparts it, or gives it, as its Christ alone, who is God, who offers it as a gift.

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So you believe in Unconditional Election and Unconditional Reprobation (Which is a part of Calvinism)?

If so, I already addressed the inherent problems of this kind of thinking within post #16 within this thread here.

Behold said:

Yikes.

So where is this blood? Do you have it in a cup? Are you talking about taking communion?

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While Romans 3:25 is one way to apply the blood, another second way to apply the blood is 1 John 1:7, too. Please read 1 John 1:7 and tell me what you think it says.

GoldenKingGaze said:

Knowing and gnosticism will not save the faithful.

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Not everyone is saved the same way. Jesus says


A baby who dies in the mother's womb did not even need faith to be saved. They were saved solely by God's grace.

If a person receives Jesus by faith as their Lord and Savior on their deathbed before they die, they will also be saved.


Notice this above verse. It says that he gave them power to become "the sons of God" for:


For what do you think happened in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee?

The Tax Collector was more justified than the Tax Collector because he cried out to God in either him first coming to the Lord for the first time over his old past life of sin, and or he was seeking to battle against sin and put it away out of his life by God's grace. In time, by God's grace, this will lead to the second process of salvation (Which is Sanctification, which is doing acts of righteousness, and living holy by the power of God working in a person) (Note: Sanctification can also include putting away known sin in a believer's life, too - See: Romans 8:13).

Anyways, the Pharisee did not do what the Tax Collector did. The Pharisee was trying to save themselves by their good deeds alone. Yes, we need good works as a part of the salvation process, but the Pharisee was focused on his good deeds alone without God's grace. The Pharisee was not thinking that he had to be saved by God's grace, and then allow God to do the good work through him. But the point here is that the Tax Collector was being saved not in anything that he did really but it was by God's mercy and grace that he was being saved by. Being saved by God's grace is the initially process of salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Romans 4:3-5) (Titus 3:5), and it is also foundational to our faith because if we stumble on rare occasion into sin (not intending to sin), we go to His grace, by confessing that sin to the Lord (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1-2) (Proverbs 28:13), and continuing to believe that He died for our sins, He was buried, and that He was risen three days later on our behalf (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

The gospel is: Believing that Jesus died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later for our salvation according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This is the gospel of salvation by faith in which we stand. We need this first. We need this primarily. This is what saves also. We do need faith to save and it is in the gospel. It is the power of God.


So yes. Having faith (a belief without any works) also does save. This does not exclude our acting upon faith in other things that God requires of us as a part of His plan of salvation for us.

We need a belief in God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ (Which is without the deeds of the Law but it is based on His mercy), AND we need Sanctification (living holy by God's power) as a part of salvation. It's not all one or the other. But we do need both. We cannot take away or de-emphasize either one.

The gospel does save. A person can die by accepting the gospel message and be saved by hearing that message alone without doing anything else.

You said:

Faith enables us to come to God humbly in sin and confess our sins, God is faithful. God by His hand or angels will apply the blood to the sinner as in the Old Testament. It is not visible but it is there, local to your presence. It makes the heart clean.

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I believe a man who has a barbaric language and is not highly educated in his own culture can be saved by at least understanding that Jesus is their Savior. They may not be able to read the Bible because it was not translated into their language, but I believe that this kind of man will be able to be saved by just trusting and believing that Jesus saves them from their sins.


Like John 1:12 says, "....gave he the power to become the sons of God... even to them who believe on his name."

But if a person lives out their faith and they do have a Bible that they can read and understand, I believe they are required to study God's Word (the Bible) to show themselves approved of unto God.


They will then know of their responsibility to accept Christ, seek forgiveness with Him, and they will know of the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and they will know of the Trinity, and they will know of how they must enter the Sanctification Process and live holy by God's power (after being saved by God's grace).

You said:

You can then share the meal remembering the last supper. Eat the bread, drink the grape juice, on a clear conscience.

By faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit you can have Jesus' sacred blood applied to you and even be filled with the blood. Covered locally, that is atonement, filled making your heart clean and just and healed for strength and sonship functions. Some use the term, "soaking".

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Of course the keeping of the Lord's supper is only symbolic and it is not for salvation. The keeping of the Lord's supper is not in reference to John 6 that talks about how we must eat of his flesh and drink of his blood as some believe today. A Christian will strive and seek to want to keep these ceremonies as a part of fellowship with other believers.

You said:

Jesus taught that if we ask with the right motive or reason, and have no doubt, that we will receive. Then by faith, if we spend the time, we can ask for the blood of the risen Christ, alike saying come Holy Spirit. Trust He wants to come and can, of course that He is and that the blood is sacred, unlimited and powerful. Asking rightly, fully sure, and the blood falls on you, and justifies and cleans you, like King David in Psalm 51. You may be repenting at this time.

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There is a connection between God's grace (Jesus's blood) cleansing us of our sin when we confess of sin, and the work of the Holy Spirit working to change our hearts and minds. The heart pumps blood through the body. The heart of the whole Bible is the 4 gospels. Rip out the gospel of our salvation in Christ, and there is no life blood given to the rest of the Bible. Without Christ dying for our sins, being buried, and being risen again (three days later) for our salvation there is no hope or light of salvation. The heart has 4 parts to it. One side takes in blood from the rest of the body, and filters it and the other side pumps fresh new oxygenated blood through the rest of the body. Much like the Spirit oxygenates and breathes life into a person after they are cleansed by the blood of Christ.

"...according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" (Titus 3:5) (AKJV).

You said:

Jesus' blood is a life concept, blood nourishes, cleans, warms, clots... it makes you a child of your Father. When it is received as presence and not knowledge, it is effective.

When you heart is clean, you take action without thought for murder, adultery, fornication, theft or slander...

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Agreed.

I hope you are well today;
And may God's love and peace shine upon you greatly today.

GoldenKingGaze said:

I am not clear on this brother. Even a baby that dies goes back to God through Christ and His grace, to grow, and eat and drink in the Holy Spirit in Heaven. They take to faith and grace readily. Made clean if need be in Jesus' blood.

Believing Christ makes us put our faith and confidence in Him and leads to receiving Him, by faith. Faith is a kind of knowing, but climaxes in receiving and surrender. Knowledge is important, but itself is not salvation, this is one point I made, referring to the ancient Gnostic heresy.

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There is no faith after death. Angels surely do not have faith because they see God and His kingdom. Babies who die and go to God cannot have faith because they see God and His kingdom. What is faith?

Hebrews 11 says,

You said:

Luke 12:48 and if you receive Christ, more is expected of you that from a non believer, and again if your receive the anointing, or if God's love is poured into your heart, or like the woman at the well, after a time, once she received living water, more was expected of her.

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Again, I see "to whom much is given much is required" in Luke 12:48 as talking about how how each person or soul in this life is not always given the same amount of responsibility. A baby who dies in its mother's womb does not have the same responsibility as a Christian who lives out their faith here on this earth. The primitive man who lives in the jungle who only could receive the gospel message but not a bible in his own language does not have the same responsibility as the one who does have a bible and can understand it. The man in the jungle cannot study God's Word to show himself approved unto God according to 2 Timothy 2:15. A man who accepts Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior on his deathbed is not under the same obligation to live out their faith in obeying the Lord's commands in this life because they cannot do so. The thief on the cross was saved and he did not need to live out his faith in order to be saved. But the Christian who does live out their faith, they are called to be faithful and to live holy after being saved by God's grace.

The problem I see in your understanding here is that you think that you don't see salvation in two steps or stages. The 1st step of salvation is vital to understand and accept. The gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is believing that Jesus died for your sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on your behalf for your salvation. This is a belief. It is knowing alone. This saves you. If you don't accept it, then you don't accept the gospel as per 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Paul says this is the gospel upon which we are saved and stand upon. That does not mean that there are not other things that are required as a part of our salvation (as written in the New Testament), though (if we live out our faith). This does not mean that a person cannot be saved by just accepting Jesus as their Savior and they never got a chance to hear about the gospel (because they were about to die). But we can be saved by faith or a belief alone in Jesus. This is how we are initially saved. It is also foundational to our salvation. If we sin, what do we do? A good work to offset that sin? Surely not. We boldly come before the throne of His grace (Hebrews 4:16). We go to Jesus our advocate (1 John 2:1-2), and we confess our sins to Him, in order to be forgiven of Him (1 John 1:9) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14) (Psalms 51) (Proverbs 28:13).

GoldenKingGaze said:

Knowing about Jesus death and resurrection and believing it is faith.

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A thing that saves initially and foundationally, right?

You said:

Anyone who dies and goes into the light, must have faith to understand what they are seeing. Or they may expect to be reincarnated... In the light people report all knowing, but trusting the knowing is true takes faith.

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Woah. Stop the horses. Reincarnated? Watchya talkin' about?
There is no such thing as reincarnation in the Bible.

GoldenKingGaze said:

Faith is a kind of knowing, or alternate to knowing. Followers of scientism want to know by testing and not trust or believe much. We can't know or prove to science that Jesus rose from the dead, but I have faith He did.

A person who does not have faith, may think if they appear in the entry to the light of life, that they are going to be reincarnated.

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I really do not know that the Earth is a globe or round, but it is the most logical conclusion based on eye witness accounts, photos, other methods of observable science, flight routes, what we see in the sky, etc.

Perhaps are observable senses could be lying to us and we are living some kind of super life like dream while our bodies are in a coma or our minds are plugged into some kind of virtual reality machine (while our real physical bodies are sitting in some kind of observation room). Granted, I do not believe this. But that is my belief. That is my faith. For the knowledge of things of God tells me that such a thing is not true.

Before you referred to knowing or knowledge and how having that alone is bad. Knowing or knowledge in the gospel by faith in God's Word is the basis for our salvation (Although there are other aspects of components of Scripture that are also included in God's plan of salvation).

What makes God's Word (the Bible) a faith that we can trust above all other faiths or religions? I believe because it is the "Truth" based on experience with God, and by the fact that His Word is based on tons of evidences. So while there is an element of faith, it is not a completely blind faith.

There are two kinds of knowledge. There is carnal knowledge that comes by studying the things of this world (like by scientific observation to build rockets, and computers), and there is spiritual knowledge that comes from trusting and obeying God's Word (walking with God). The knowledge we have in God's Word is in part by faith but it is not entirely a blind faith. We see God actively open our eyes to the truth, and speak to us in silent ways with His Word and the life that we walk. In fact, mankind as a whole is aware of God's existence by His creation.


The world also is convicted of their sin by the Spirit (in God's timing).


The wicked are condemned because they receive not the love of the truth. So people know that there is a truth because they are able to reject it, and be condemned for not accepting it.


So there is a truth that they are rejecting. They may not be fully aware of this truth in how it can change them and set them free, but many of them must have a rough idea about it. How can God condemn them about something they have no idea about whatsoever? Logic dictates that they have some rough idea of what they are rejecting. Unfortunately, they choose to have pleasure in unrighteousness (sin) instead of believing the truth of God's Word. I would even say that this applies to even man who profess they know Christ, as well. For there are many in the church who are still choosing the old man and having pleasure in unrighteousness and they reject the truth of those parts of Scripture that say things like, "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" (Hebrews 12:14).

GoldenKingGaze said:

Faith is a kind of knowing, or alternate to knowing. Followers of scientism want to know by testing and not trust or believe much. We can't know or prove to science that Jesus rose from the dead, but I have faith He did.

A person who does not have faith, may think if they appear in the entry to the light of life, that they are going to be reincarnated.

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Ah, so your reincarnation statement was a reflection of those people who do not believe the Bible. If that is what you are saying, I agree with you.

Behold said:

I believe that God so loved the WORLD, (not just the Elect), that He Gave His only begotten". John 3:16
And all who believe in Him, have Eternal Life, because they are BORN AGAIN.
Being Born Again, is the only proof you are a Child of God, "Saved". "Redeemed".
So, that's everyone given the offer of Redemption thru the Cross of Christ, as "the gift of Salvation".
Salvation is a free Gift, that was gained by the shedding of Blood on The Cross, thru God as Christ.
Tomorrow, 4-12-2020, the redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb, the Born Again, will celebrate their "gift of Righteousness".
That's Salvation.
Jesus saves you and keeps you saved.

Philippians 1:6

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Here is a...

Long List of Verses Refuting Eternal Security or OSAS
(Once Saved Always Saved):

• Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness (cf. Matthew 7:26-27, 1 John 2:3-4).

• Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.

• Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.

• Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.

• Matthew 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 - Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.

• Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.

• Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.

• Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.

• Mark 13:13 - But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally (Also see Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Colossians 1:22-23, 1 Timothy 4:16, Hebrews 10:35-39, Revelation 2:10)

• Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).

• Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?

• Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.

• John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).

• John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.

• John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.

• John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ.

• Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.

• Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.

• Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.

• Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.

• Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.

• Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.

• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.

• 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

• 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.

• Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by the Law of Moses (or Law Alone-ism), … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.

• Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

• Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

• Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.

• Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.

• Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
  
  
• … so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

• Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.

• Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

• Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.

• 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

• 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

• 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

• 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

• 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.

• Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.

• Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?

• Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

• Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.

• Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).

• Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).

• Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.

• Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.

• Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.

• Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.

• Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.

• Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (without which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.

• Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.

• James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.

• 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.

• 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.

• 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.

• 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.

• 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

• 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.

• 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.

• 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.

• Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality

• Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.

• Revelation 2:10 - Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life (Also see Mark 13:13 above).

• Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).

• Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.

• Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

• Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

• Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.

• Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.

Behold said:

I believe that God so loved the WORLD, (not just the Elect), that He Gave His only begotten". John 3:16

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When you read John 3:16, you also have to read about the "Condemnation" in 1 John 3:19-21. In verse 20 it says,


Meaning, if a person is still doing evil, they hate the true light (or the true Jesus) of the Bible and they have created their own version of Jesus to fit the justification of their sin. Jesus never condoned sin and He even warned against how it can destroy our souls (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62). That's the Jesus of the Bible. Even Paul warned us that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Somebody that thinks that they are Once Saved Always Saved is going to naturally treat God's grace as a safety net to sin in some way (or they will in time not treat sin for the danger that it is). What they fail to see are the warnings from the brethren about how many different kinds of sins can destroy us (See: Galatians 5:19-21) (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) (1 John 3:10) (1 John 3:15) (Revelation 21:8).

You said:

And all who believe in Him, have Eternal Life, because they are BORN AGAIN.
Being Born Again, is the only proof you are a Child of God, "Saved". "Redeemed".

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While being born again includes believing the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, it also includes purifying one's soul in obeying the truth by the Spirit with unfeigned love of the brethren.

For Peter says,

You said:

So, that's everyone given the offer of Redemption thru the Cross of Christ, as "the gift of Salvation".
Salvation is a free Gift, that was gained by the shedding of Blood on The Cross, thru God as Christ.

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Life teaches us that the most gifts come with responsibilities (Especially those gifts that we hold with value).

Let me give you an example:

If Rick received a car as a free gift from his dad, does that mean he can run red lights, drive drunk, and hit pedestrians? No. If he were to do that, he would not have his gift for very long. Now, was his car any less a free gift because he had to do works of responsibility in possessing his free gift? No. Did Rick have to work at a job and get a loan to buy this car? No. It was a free gift from his dad.

Here is another example:

If Billy-Bob prayed for a wife for many years and he eventually received a wife from the Lord and consider her as a gift, then that does not mean Billy-Bob can cheat on her and or not love her and expect for her to stay with him. It is the same with God. Disloyalty to GOD means we do not really love GOD and we just love ourselves more than Him. GOD calls us to obedience to His Word. This was the problem that goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden. But men today want to say that we can break God's commands and they will not die. This was the same lie that the enemy was trying to sell Eve on. The serpent told her that she would not die if she ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Which was a violation of God's command).

You said:

Tomorrow, 4-12-2020, the redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb, the Born Again, will celebrate their "gift of Righteousness".
That's Salvation.
Jesus saves you and keeps you saved.

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Surely we cannot be saved without God's grace, but God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 3:5). Psalms 1:6 says, "...the way of the ungodly shall perish."

The apostle John says,
"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:7).

"it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints."
(Revelation 19:8) (ESV).

In the Parable of the Banquet in Matthew 22:1-14: I believe those who do not have on a "Wedding Garment" are Gentile believers who justified sin in this life or they treated God's grace as a safety net to sin in some way. I believe that if these kind of believers die thinking this way, they will go to the realm of the dead within the heart of the Earth for a time, and then one day when the Rapture happens, they will be taken up in the Rapture to the marriage of Christ; However, unfortunately, when they encounter the King (Jesus), He will ask them, "Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?" (Matthew 22:12) (ESV).

"And he was speechless" (Matthew 22:12).

Then said the king to the servants, "Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness;" (Matthew 22:13).

"there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 22:13).

"For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14).

You said:

Philippians 1:6

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Philippians 1:6 is true. It says:

What is helpful is reading the context.

"Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God." (Philippians 1:11).

Do you believe that your belief fits verse 11 for all believers who hold to your kind of belief? Most of the time, when I talk with Eternal Security Proponents they are always seeking to justify how they can sin and still be saved on some level. They wave around their misinterpretations of 1 John 1:8, Romans 7:14-24, Romans 3:10, Romans 3:23 as if to justify sin in some way. They tell me that no believer can stop sinning this side of Heaven. So they are saved by grace even if they sin. So how can such an individual be filled with the fruits of righteousness by Jesus Christ? Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit (See: Matthew 7:18).

Also, if you believe God forces you to do good, or He forces salvation upon you then why are we told to do the following things below in Scripture?

For...

We are told:


We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

These statements should not exist in Scripture if your view of "Sin and Salvation" was true, friend.

In any case, peace be unto you in the name of Jesus Christ;
And please be safe.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ J.

GoldenKingGaze said:

Hebrews 4:2 mentions the need to mix the word, the Truth, with faith.

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Hebrews 4:2 (KJV) says,
"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it."

Hebrews 4:2 (BLB) says,
"And indeed we are those having had the gospel preached just as they did; but the message of their hearing did not profit them, not having been united with the faith of those having heard."

Hebrews 4:2 (BSB) says,
"For we also received the good news just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, since they did not share the faith of those who comprehended it."

I do not see the word "truth" mentioned in Hebrews 4:2. Granted, while you did not quote the verse accurately it is true that God's Word is truth (John 17:17), and that faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

I see saving faith as having both God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and Sanctification by the Spirit (living holy).

You said:

I focus on the need of the Spirit and the Blood to be actual and local to the believer.

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It depends on what a believer means by these things. Not all believers view the working of the blood and the Spirit in the same way. There are different interpretations of how a person may apply them both. In some cases, people's methods in applying the Spirit, and the blood to their lives may be unbiblical or outside of God's Word (the Bible).

You said:

In rare cases, non believers have been healed.

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Glory to God for any healings He does; But I am not sure what this has to do with any of the points we were talking about before. Some may see this as evidence that God's Word is true; If that is what you are getting at, then I agree. There are many things that point to how God and His Word is true.

You said:

John and Paul and maybe the other apostles dealt with the Gnostic heresy. Gnostics though that the source of all things was benevolent, but the things emanating from it, like matter, were evil by nature. So they denied Jesus had a real body. And they thought by special knowledge that they were saved. They did not show forth good works but thought themselves exempt. This meant work for the apostles.

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I am aware of gnosticism. You can be rest assured that this is something I am super strongly against. A family member of mine believes in Christian Science. They hold to the view that evil is just an illusion and it is not real. I believe 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10 are warnings to the brethren against the gnostic beliefs. 1 John 1:8 is basically telling the brethren that they should not say that "we have no sin" when they do happen to sin on rare occasion, but they should confess of their sins to the Lord to be forgiven of them (1 John 1:9) (cf. 1 John 2:1-2) (Proverbs 28:13) (Psalms 51). 1 John 1:10 is a person denying that they have never sinned ever in their past life. 1 John 1:8 is a denial of sin's existence while they sin in their present life or while they are currently sinning. In other words, sin does not exist for the gnostic. This is wrong of course.

Many today think they can sin in the flesh and yet they are forgiven of their sins in the spirit by the blood of Jesus; But this is not how things work. They have to read and believe 1 John 1:7 when it says "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin."

You said:

Today cessationists think that they need only know and believe Jesus died for them and that He rose and is glorified, so the blood covers them, like insurance. They do not actually receive it. Such as in the case of adultery, Jesus' powerful blood is needed, to cleanse and cover and take effect, for sanctification and honour... But they are not confident to ask for the blood or even for a healing. They have ineffectual knowledge.

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It's an overgeneralization to say that all Cessationists hold to the popular candy coated preaching of today that turns God's grace into a license for immorality in some way. There are many Cessationists who think that Sanctification (living holy by God's Spirit) or good fruit plays a part of the salvation process (after being saved by God's grace). Many today preach a sin and still be saved gospel. This is the popular church view (of which I do not agree with). Even those who say that a believer will live holy or be changed as a part of the regeneration will defend on some level that they can sin and still be saved in some small way. I know. I have been in that conversation more times than I care to count. There are believers who are for Eternal Security who deny believers justifying extreme forms of sin, but yet they do not think you have to do any works of any kind as a part of salvation. Yet, they contradict themselves and say that they will be changed and do good works.

Anyways, there are Cessationists who believe that salvation is both in God's grace and in Sanctification. I lean heavily towards Cessationism, but I will not say that Pentecostals or Charismatics are not operating by God's power because I do not want to condemn myself (Just in case I am wrong). But if there is one driving force in my life after the gospel of my salvation for people to hear it is preaching strongly against the majority church view that says that a Christian can sin and still be saved on some level. They just preach the blood, and or the cross, and or salvation in God's grace, but there is no requirement to live holy as a part of salvation. That would be works salvation to them (When in reality Paul was preaching against "Works ALONE Salvationism" via by the Old Testament Law of Moses without God's grace). In fact, one of my close brothers at work is a Pentecostal. We basically agree to disagree in love on the issue of Cessationism vs. Continuationism, and we talk about other Bible topics. We are both strongly against Eternal Security.

Actually, there are even Pentecostals or Charismatics who believe in Eternal Security.

Do any Pentecostals believe in eternal security?