Why no news about Climetgate ?

JacksBratt said:

My point exactly...

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Really? So you accept the fact manmade climate change although you doubted first?

VirOptimus said:

Really? So you accept the fact manmade climate change although you doubted first?

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No... You missed my point.

Someone here used the "I doubt" as an argument against my point... I commented by saying that "I doubt" has no weight as a retort against someones argument.. Just as many doubted that Trump would be elected.

Understand?


Climate change.... very real.... Has been happening since creation... Man made climate change from cows passing wind and such... is just a smoke screen (yuck yuck) to take your money and mine.

JacksBratt said:

You "doubt"... Yeah... sounds like a solid argument...

A lot of people "doubted" that Trump would win the election.

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I don't believe that you have ever used that argument in any situation that you agreed with the result.

I think you are dishonestly pretending to be uncertain because you don't like the results.

Care to prove me wrong? Should be easy if you can present a post of you claiming that there's no reason to accept evidence for something you believe in.

JacksBratt said:

No... You missed my point.

Someone here used the "I doubt" as an argument against my point... I commented by saying that "I doubt" has no weight as a retort against someones argument.. Just as many doubted that Trump would be elected.

Understand?


Climate change.... very real.... Has been happening since creation... Man made climate change from cows passing wind and such... is just a smoke screen (yuck yuck) to take your money and mine.

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I understod your ”point” just fine.

Its you who dont understand data and science.

Shemjaza said:

I don't believe that you have ever used that argument in any situation that you agreed with the result.

I think you are dishonestly pretending to be uncertain because you don't like the results.

Care to prove me wrong? Should be easy if you can present a post of you claiming that there's no reason to accept evidence for something you believe in.

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What....... are you even talking about?

Dishonestly pretending what?

Maybe try wording this a bit differently.

You want me to go back, through my personal posts, and prove to you that I what?.... said something like "Don't take my word for it"? or "This is the evidence that I believe but research it for yourself"?

Please don't accuse me, again, of being "dishonest".. I'm a little gunshy right now because I have been nitpicked by other posters and warned for saying things, just like that...

that these people, accusing me, have they themselves, and others, committed far greater forum wrongs... It's just that I don't report people just because they don't agree with me.. or insult me...

I full well understand that this is a world wide forum and people are going to disagree with me.. They are going to rage and have fits and spew hatred.... That's what happens..

However I ... that's right I... do something and they report me..

Right now I cannot use the little rating system at the bottom right... all because I called someone out on a political comment that a news media had presented as being total misinformation...

Why am I still banned.. Because I won't aplologise for something that I didn't do... I also was told that I should report the person that reported me.. I told the mods that I am far beyond grade school antics.

VirOptimus said:

I understod your ”point” just fine.

Its you who dont understand data and science.

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Funny... I work in applied science and my work and the economic feasibility of my clients depend on real science..Testable, observable and absolutely repeatable scientific factual results.

The stuff that makes planes fly and microwave ovens heat your food.. your car engine run, Velcro work, how we make alcohol from sugars. How oil is cracked, helmets are safe, Wifi works...

That kind of science...

Not hidden data, cherry picked numbers, bullying professors and those that fund the science grants and bursaries.

Not pseudo fabricated and skewed "science" of predicted nonsense like the "man made" aspect of natural and continual events like global climate change that has one purpose and one purpose only.. to take your money and my money. Just like the "Energy Crisis"..

Those that fall for it... will 3 decades later be deflected to some new catastrophic fabricated political agenda. Not to mention that all the players of this farce will be well into retirement or dead.

JacksBratt said:

Funny... I work in applied science and my work and the economic feasibility of my clients depend on real science..Testable, observable and absolutely repeatable scientific factual results.

The stuff that makes planes fly and microwave ovens heat your food.. your car engine run, Velcro work, how we make alcohol from sugars. How oil is cracked, helmets are safe, Wifi works...

That kind of science...

Not hidden data, cherry picked numbers, bullying professors and those that fund the science grants and bursaries.

Not pseudo fabricated and skewed "science" of predicted nonsense like the "man made" aspect of natural and continual events like global climate change that has one purpose and one purpose only.. to take your money and my money. Just like the "Energy Crisis"..

Those that fall for it... will 3 decades later be deflected to some new catastrophic fabricated political agenda. Not to mention that all the players of this farce will be well into retirement or dead.

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I get it, you cant support your "ideas" with real science so you rant.

Not impressed.

And stating that you will be shown to right.. just wait and see! - Hilarious!

VirOptimus said:

I get it, you cant support your "ideas" with real science so you rant.

Not impressed.

And stating that you will be shown to right.. just wait and see! - Hilarious!

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Those who laugh last.. as they say.

God bless.

JacksBratt said:

Kylie, I could sit here and type a whole string of retorts to your post and we could keep doing it for days.

However, it's plain that you are set with your view as am I.

I was fed the whole "energy crisis" when I was a kid. I also swallowed all the "ice age cometh" in my youth as well.

This will be just another garden path that the powers that be are leading all the sheep down. It's as real as the USA looking for "weapons of mass destruction" in the middle east.

So, don't hold your breath for oceans rising or the whole population of the world dying because of CO2 levels cooking us.

You can listen all you want to the poster children of academia regurgitating all the false numbers that you want..

In the end.. time reveals the truth. I'm not worried for this planet. I know how the story ends.

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I'm not set in my ways. You provide reasonable evidence - evidence that I can check and verify - and I'll believe it. I'm just asking you to present it.

I don't think that's unreasonable.

Now let me ask you: What evidence would change your mind?

Kylie said:

I'm not set in my ways. You provide reasonable evidence - evidence that I can check and verify - and I'll believe it. I'm just asking you to present it.

I don't think that's unreasonable.

Now let me ask you: What evidence would change your mind?

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What would change my mind? Certainly not some dude in a white coat with a big research grant or a tenure at some university... nope..

None of the "models" either. They can enter all the fake data that they want into them in order to give results to support their agenda.

Not any of the temperature data from NOAA either. They have weather data collection stations in parking lots, on street corners and even beside air conditioning discharge vents.

I have been fooled once, fooled twice and it's going to be a hard sell for me to ever accept that man made CO2 is causing something that happens naturally.


Even this guy states that once all of the light energy that causes the CO2 to heat up is absorbed... more CO2 will do nothing because there is no more light energy to absorb...

He also states that CO2 needed is exponential.. The amount of increase in CO2 levels, in order to raise our earth temp any more significantly would be huge.

So, Right now.. the only thing that would convince me... is time.. And, in that, I will hold to those that know that the sun has just exited a solar maximum and we are going to enter a solar minimum.. just like after the 30's and 40's...

This guy does hold to the "man made" idea.. which I disagree with.. but he presents some hard numbers for the crowd that says "CO2 is going to burn us all up"

JacksBratt said:

What would change my mind? Certainly not some dude in a white coat with a big research grant or a tenure at some university... nope..

None of the "models" either. They can enter all the fake data that they want into them in order to give results to support their agenda.

Not any of the temperature data from NOAA either. They have weather data collection stations in parking lots, on street corners and even beside air conditioning discharge vents.

I have been fooled once, fooled twice and it's going to be a hard sell for me to ever accept that man made CO2 is causing something that happens naturally.


Even this guy states that once all of the light energy that causes the CO2 to heat up is absorbed... more CO2 will do nothing because there is no more light energy to absorb...

He also states that CO2 needed is exponential.. The amount of increase in CO2 levels, in order to raise our earth temp any more significantly would be huge.

So, Right now.. the only thing that would convince me... is time.. And, in that, I will hold to those that know that the sun has just exited a solar maximum and we are going to enter a solar minimum.. just like after the 30's and 40's...

This guy does hold to the "man made" idea.. which I disagree with.. but he presents some hard numbers for the crowd that says "CO2 is going to burn us all up"

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So you basically discount science in its entirety, since there is no evidence that will convince you.

And you say you will only be convinced by time. Wait and see if it happens or not. And how long are you prepared to give it, hmmm? And what criteria will you accept as showing that you were wrong? How about if what happens in reality matches what the climate models predicted? Would you accept that as evidence that you were wrong?

JacksBratt said:

What....... are you even talking about?

Dishonestly pretending what?

Maybe try wording this a bit differently.

You want me to go back, through my personal posts, and prove to you that I what?.... said something like "Don't take my word for it"? or "This is the evidence that I believe but research it for yourself"?

Please don't accuse me, again, of being "dishonest".. I'm a little gunshy right now because I have been nitpicked by other posters and warned for saying things, just like that...

that these people, accusing me, have they themselves, and others, committed far greater forum wrongs... It's just that I don't report people just because they don't agree with me.. or insult me...

I full well understand that this is a world wide forum and people are going to disagree with me.. They are going to rage and have fits and spew hatred.... That's what happens..

However I ... that's right I... do something and they report me..

Right now I cannot use the little rating system at the bottom right... all because I called someone out on a political comment that a news media had presented as being total misinformation...

Why am I still banned.. Because I won't aplologise for something that I didn't do... I also was told that I should report the person that reported me.. I told the mods that I am far beyond grade school antics.

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I'll explain.

People have presented evidence for climate change and you deny it.

In one post you tried to bring even the concept of evidence into doubt.

I made a general comment that how irrelevant climate denialists find evidence seemed to coincide with how against them it is.

You explained that your comments would cover any and all views on this. Nobody has accurate enough data to really state anything.

Here's where the confusion seems to have happened. I doubted that you would ever bring up how weak evidence for anything is when you agree with.

My doubt wasn't about the evidence against climate change, it was against the consistency of application of your argument.

You responded to my statement with a dismissive comment that seemed, to me, to miss the focus of my comment.

Clearly I was insulted by the aggression in my reply. That is inappropriate and I apologise.

I had decided to to speak plainly and state that I think your argument is faulty, because you wouldn't apply it unless you were already invested in the opposite.
Then I requested you point out where you would bring up you doubt about evidence when you agreed with the conclusion.

Shemjaza said:

I'll explain.

People have presented evidence for climate change and you deny it.

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.

Stop there... This is false...It has been explained to be false hundreds of times. Not for me but the whole hoax...

This is how they perpetuate the farce.... Very few, if any, are saying that there is no "climate change".

It's the "man made" part.. It's the part that says New York is going to flood. It's the part that says that the polar bears will all die.....That is the unsupported, perpetuated and fabricated lie that scares all of the sheep into radical frames of mind. To the extent of being ridiculous.

Shemjaza said:

In one post you tried to bring even the concept of evidence into doubt.

I made a general comment that how irrelevant climate denialists find evidence seemed to coincide with how against them it is.

You explained that your comments would cover any and all views on this. Nobody has accurate enough data to really state anything.

Here's where the confusion seems to have happened. I doubted that you would ever bring up how weak evidence for anything is when you agree with.

My doubt wasn't about the evidence against climate change, it was against the consistency of application of your argument.

You responded to my statement with a dismissive comment that seemed, to me, to miss the focus of my comment.

Clearly I was insulted by the aggression in my reply. That is inappropriate and I apologise.

I had decided to to speak plainly and state that I think your argument is faulty, because you wouldn't apply it unless you were already invested in the opposite.
Then I requested you point out where you would bring up you doubt about evidence when you agreed with the conclusion.

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Let me clear it up for you then.

1/ The climate changes.. all the time.. always has, always will.

2/ Those promoting "man made" climate change... are driven by an agenda that is created to take your money and put it in the bank accounts of those that are perpetuating the lie.

3/ Nobody has accurate enough data to claim the minuscule temperature variations show any kind of pattern other than natural variation due to natural events of the sun, wind, cloud cover etc.

4/The scare mongering self proclaimed prophets of man made climate change... have so many things that never came to be.... that they are discredited and made to be "false" prophets. You are a fool if you listen to those who make predictions that never come true.

5/ There is evidence exposed and published that showed climate scientists trying to cover up the fact that the real data was counter to the predicted model.

6/ The hoaxters present data from the past and leave out large portions of data that counters their agenda.. and use weak and laughable excuses as to why it is not valid... when it proves them to be lying.

7/ I will go with the scientist.. that has nothing to gain and everything to lose.. by standing up to those promoting this hoax and actually going against the current, presenting real data and real explanations... all when they will end up ridiculed, discredited, fired, and have all their funding pulled and families threatened.

8/I work with applied physical and chemical science... I understand it very well. If fact, I depend on it.
Science like why airplanes fly, water boils, how soap works, and other real, testable, observable and repeatable science.

9/Others that I work with.. all think similar to me... we laugh at the presented ideas and have pity on those that are falling for this. They are just like we were when we were told that an ice age was coming and that we were running out of oil... in past decades.

10/ I have looked at the data. I have looked at the predictions. I have lived through scaremongering lies before. I have heard all the excuses.. "more snow is caused by climate change"... "less snow is caused by climate change", "weather is not climate"... "it's local temperatures"... blah.... blah blah.... blah blah....

11/ If all these people can claim things.. never have them actually come to be.. and people still hang on every word that they say... Then... do I not have the right to state... "In 20 or 30 years... they will be over this, without event... and on to some new world catastrophe that is "soon to come" if you don't pays some tax that miraculously makes it all go away"?

Kylie said:

So you basically discount science in its entirety, since there is no evidence that will convince you.

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Did you totally miss the part where once all the heat is absorbed... it won't matter how much CO2 there is as it will not have any effect? Did you totally miss that part?

The question always comes down to "is it man made?".. and.. I say it ain't.

Kylie said:

And you say you will only be convinced by time. Wait and see if it happens or not. And how long are you prepared to give it, hmmm? And what criteria will you accept as showing that you were wrong? How about if what happens in reality matches what the climate models predicted? Would you accept that as evidence that you were wrong?

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I don't have to give it any time... If the climate changes.. it changes.. Has been for centuries and we are still here.

What gives man the arrogance to 1/ Think that they can stop natural universal forces such as climate. 2/ take money from their citizens to try to stop it..

Unlike you, I have faith in a creator... I have no worries about such nonsense as the world ending due to cows passing wind.

People say "we have to do something now.... before it's too late"....

I say... the evidence is against any "man made" effects.. No matter how hard the people in power try to stop us from knowing and believing it.

JacksBratt said:

Did you totally miss the part where once all the heat is absorbed... it won't matter how much CO2 there is as it will not have any effect? Did you totally miss that part?

The question always comes down to "is it man made?".. and.. I say it ain't.

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When the vast majority of climate scientists say that human activity is accelerating climate change and you say otherwise, yeah, you are discounting science.

I don't have to give it any time... If the climate changes.. it changes.. Has been for centuries and we are still here.

What gives man the arrogance to 1/ Think that they can stop natural universal forces such as climate. 2/ take money from their citizens to try to stop it..

Unlike you, I have faith in a creator... I have no worries about such nonsense as the world ending due to cows passing wind.

People say "we have to do something now.... before it's too late"....

I say... the evidence is against any "man made" effects.. No matter how hard the people in power try to stop us from knowing and believing it.

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In other words, your mind is made up, and you aren't interested in a discussion.

I have to wonder why you bother coming to a discussion forum at all if you aren't interested in having a discussion...

Kylie said:

When the vast majority of climate scientists say that human activity is accelerating climate change and you say otherwise, yeah, you are discounting science.

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No, I discount the idea.
Again.... truth is not a democracy. There is science that contradicts their data.

Kylie said:

In other words, your mind is made up, and you aren't interested in a discussion.

I have to wonder why you bother coming to a discussion forum at all if you aren't interested in having a discussion...

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To present the other side. To show that not everyone is falling for all the things that the puppet are saying.

Look... I've seen them try to force this idea into the world of reality. I've seen too many failed predictions.
And I've seen lies exposed... That's enough.

JacksBratt said:

No, I discount the idea.
Again.... truth is not a democracy. There is science that contradicts their data.

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This alleged science is dismissed as incorrect by most of the experts who spend their careers studying this field.

If they can use their expertise to decide that it's wrong, why is it that you, with presumably no qualifications in a relevant field, can say that they have made a mistake?

To present the other side. To show that not everyone is falling for all the things that the puppet are saying.

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Oh, and you call them puppets to try to discredit them! Poisoning the well like this is a poor tactic and just shows how little you actually have.

Look... I've seen them try to force this idea into the world of reality. I've seen too many failed predictions.

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And I've already provided a source that many of the climate models from many decades ago have been validated by what's happened since in the real world.

And I've seen lies exposed... That's enough.

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You lower your standard of what counts as evidence when it comes to things you agree with, and you raise it unreasonably high when it comes to things you disagree with.

Kylie said:

This alleged science is dismissed as incorrect by most of the experts who spend their careers studying this field.

If they can use their expertise to decide that it's wrong, why is it that you, with presumably no qualifications in a relevant field, can say that they have made a mistake?



Oh, and you call them puppets to try to discredit them! Poisoning the well like this is a poor tactic and just shows how little you actually have.



And I've already provided a source that many of the climate models from many decades ago have been validated by what's happened since in the real world.



You lower your standard of what counts as evidence when it comes to things you agree with, and you raise it unreasonably high when it comes to things you disagree with.

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Kylie, you and I see this from two opposite sides. That is the way this world works and that is what keeps the balance.

You are atheist, I am Christian... Due to that simple fact we are going to have varied views on what controls this universe. My basis for what I believe is opposite to what drives you to believe what you believe...

That is the way the world goes. We are not going to change each others view on this whole climate issue. You cannot see it my way and I cannot see it yours.

The continued banter is not getting us anywhere. We seem to be two of a handful even continuing this thread..

So, Good day. I'm moving on.

JacksBratt said:

Kylie, you and I see this from two opposite sides. That is the way this world works and that is what keeps the balance.

You are atheist, I am Christian... Due to that simple fact we are going to have varied views on what controls this universe. My basis for what I believe is opposite to what drives you to believe what you believe...

That is the way the world goes. We are not going to change each others view on this whole climate issue. You cannot see it my way and I cannot see it yours.

The continued banter is not getting us anywhere. We seem to be two of a handful even continuing this thread..

So, Good day. I'm moving on.

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Are you suggesting that Christians will typically see this issue the same way as you?

My husband is a Christian, and he doesn't see it that way at all.

Unlike you, he doesn't see God as some parent figure who will come and clean our room when we've made a mess of it. He sees that God gave use this world to protect and care for, so we'd better protect it and care for it.

Kylie said:

Are you suggesting that Christians will typically see this issue the same way as you?

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No and I never intended to suggest that.

Christians argue amongst themselves continually. My point was that you and I have two very different foundational beliefs... This will lead you and I to have totally different ideas about what can and cannot happen to this universe.

Kylie said:

My husband is a Christian, and he doesn't see it that way at all.

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Quite common..I'm not surprised at all.

Kylie said:

Unlike you, he doesn't see God as some parent figure who will come and clean our room when we've made a mess of it.

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Oh... I said that? Really?

In fact I hold to the concept of "choose to sin..... choose to suffer". We live with the mistakes we make.

This world, based on the biblical scripture.. is not going to explode by being hit by a meteor... Burn up from global warming.... be totally wiped out by a nuclear war...over taken by beings from some land far far away..... or any other fanciful conceptual end..

The bible quite clearly states that there will be a one world government.... making it mandatory to take a mark which you will need to buy or sell.... then rebellion of different factions ending in an epic battle at Armageddon That God will stop or there would be no life left alive....

It's not going to be a "man made climate catastrophe".

Kylie said:

He sees that God gave use this world to protect and care for, so we'd better protect it and care for it.

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I agree. Absolutely...

However, that does not mean allowing governments to create fabricated concepts of impending doom and tax it's people into poverty for things that will never come to fruition.

I drive a fuel efficient car. I recycle, compost, take electronics and metal to proper drop offs.. I put out very little waste to the landfill. I am a lover of nature and treat all animals with kindness. I don't dump harmful products into the environment... I heat, and cook with propane... I wouldn't even have an air conditioner if it wasn't for my wife demanding it.

If this world was really concerned about global warming.. They would stop the nonsense of things like TV's that last only 5 years, washers that last maybe 10, dishwashers, fridges, freezers that must go to the dump after a pathetic short life.. Toaster ovens, coffee makers, microwaves and other things that when a 5 cent part breaks.. you have to replace the entire unit.....

What ever happened to being able to take apart your toaster... popping in a $1.00 switch and having it last another 5 years? HUH?????

But they don't... The big business promotes a "throw away" society... Then they say we have to stop the "carbon footprint"...

It's nonsense... it's horse pucky..... They are liars and everyone just sits their in a comatose state nodding their heads and drinking their drinks out of throw away containers.. food in huge plastic containers... the list is endless.


They ...... don't ...... care.....

They just want your money...

So, don't assume anything about me..... you are wrong and have no basis for doing so..

I just totally disagree with "man made" climate change and I've seen enough evidence to see through their nonsense.

God is in control... I know how this story ends.

There is nothing in the bible about human extinction due to what they are predicting...