The pale horse has come

ZNP said:

The Black Death is estimated to have killed 30% to 60% of Europe's population.[13] In total, the plague may have reduced the world population from an estimated 475 million to 350–375 million in the 14th century.[14] It took 200 years for Europe's population to recover to its previous level,[15] and some regions (such as Florence) did not recover until the 19th century.[16][17][18] Outbreaks of the plague recurred until the early 20th century.

I think this is an excellent example of what is possible. Yes, it killed a fourth of the people in Europe. No doubt it killed people in other parts of the world, but when it says the plague has power over a fourth of the earth that can be interpreted two ways -- plagues generally hit in certain regions. A worldwide plague is something quite special, perhaps only possible after the industrial revolution. So if "one fourth of the earth" represents a region of earth within that region you get death due to famine, sword, and plague.

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I don't think anyone has really considered the impact of this pandemic.

1. Insurance companies are hit with a double whammy, at the same time payouts are skyrocketing their investments are plummeting.

2. It is estimated that there is a loss of $350 billion in trade every quarter that this pandemic is in place. That also adds to bankruptcies which can have a domino effect.

3. Airlines and hotels are being especially hard hit.

4. Unemployment is skyrocketing, which in turn is dealt with by government programs which cause inflation. This of course has happened before, but worldwide, all at once? I think this has to be unprecedented in the speed and scope of this collapse.

5. Stock market collapse is staggering, especially for those who have retired. It is not simply the stocks but also bond yields will likely fall dramatically.

6. The Russel 2000 is an index of small businesses. Prior to this event many of them were not profitable, even operating at a loss. This could easily be a critical domino where we get a rash of bankruptcies, which would acerbate unemployment, inflation, and in turn push other businesses to the brink of bankruptcy.

Now imagine you are still trying to recover from hurricane Harvey, or the fires in Australia or California. Puerto Rico and the Bahamas are trying to recover from terrible storms, how is that going to work without any tourism? If this were a prize fight how many punches can you take before you go down?

oops, double entry

DamianWarS said:

population has exponential increase and if the pale horse can't do it in one fell swoop he'll be playing catch up for eternity.

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Hi damian,

No, not for eternity. How many people have lived over the last 2,000 years? How many have died over the last 2,000 years of all the various tools that the pale horse rider has at his disposal? Sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

You see, it's not just plagues. How many have died in wars? What about the famines that seem to be constantly bringing death in many African and Indian nations? Further, as the release of the pale horse rider is described, it may not be that a fourth of the people on the earth die. What it says is that 'they' were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by.... It's possible that what it really means is that a fourth of the land mass or total area of the earth will be subject to the power of these deadly forces.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

DamianWarS said:

population has exponential increase and if the pale horse can't do it in one fell swoop he'll be playing catch up for eternity.

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'What Every Person Should Know About War'

At least 108 million killed in wars in this last century.

Famines in the 21st century? It's not for lack of food

Famine killed at least 75 million this last century

Not so easy to estimate how many are killed by “plague”. Do you want to include yearly death toll to flu along with the Spanish flu? That would be about 55 million. How about cholera, malaria, ebola, H1N1, etc. Probably push the number up closer to 100 million.

So altogether I think a conservative number for the deaths in the last century is 300 million. On the other hand a conservative number of people would be an additional 5 billion. That is less than 10%, hardly one fourth.

There are two ways to reconcile this discrepancy that come immediately to mind.

1. The pale horse has power over one fourth of the earth is not the same as killing one fourth of the people.

or

2. Perhaps the difference, approximately 2 billion people will be killed at the end of the age.

miamited said:

Hi damian,

No, not for eternity. How many people have lived over the last 2,000 years? How many have died over the last 2,000 years of all the various tools that the pale horse rider has at his disposal? Sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

You see, it's not just plagues. How many have died in wars? What about the famines that seem to be constantly bringing death in many African and Indian nations? Further, as the release of the pale horse rider is described, it may not be that a fourth of the people on the earth die. What it says is that 'they' were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by.... It's possible that what it really means is that a fourth of the land mass or total area of the earth will be subject to the power of these deadly forces.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

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The same maths apply. If 1/4 wasn't taken during all these deadly forces then the horse will always be playing catch up due to exponential growth. If the horse did take 1/4 then why aren't we saying the horse has already come?

ZNP said:

'What Every Person Should Know About War'

At least 108 million killed in wars in this last century.

Famines in the 21st century? It's not for lack of food

Famine killed at least 75 million this last century

Not so easy to estimate how many are killed by “plague”. Do you want to include yearly death toll to flu along with the Spanish flu? That would be about 55 million. How about cholera, malaria, ebola, H1N1, etc. Probably push the number up closer to 100 million.

So altogether I think a conservative number for the deaths in the last century is 300 million. On the other hand a conservative number of people would be an additional 5 billion. That is less than 10%, hardly one fourth.

There are two ways to reconcile this discrepancy that come immediately to mind.

1. The pale horse has power over one fourth of the earth is not the same as killing one fourth of the people.

or

2. Perhaps the difference, approximately 2 billion people will be killed at the end of the age.

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All the numbers still don't equal 2 billion. That's just the current 1/4 but if you factor cumulative growth the pale horse has catching up to do. I would think a catastrophic event would have to happen that would collapse society globally to cause that many to die. I also get the sense the pale horse indescriminatly takes so I don't think China will just blow up and the rest of us have to cope. Covid can be a start, if another virus that's more deadly appeared on the heels of covid that shut down the world again we have some pale horse potential then.

DamianWarS said:

All the numbers still don't equal 2 billion. That's just the current 1/4 but if you factor cumulative growth the pale horse has catching up to do. I would think a catastrophic event would have to happen that would collapse society globally to cause that many to die. I also get the sense the pale horse indescriminatly takes so I don't think China will just blow up and the rest of us have to cope. Covid can be a start, if another virus that's more deadly appeared on the heels of covid that shut down the world again we have some pale horse potential then.

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Those numbers were for the last 100 years, so the 2 billion was only for the last 100 years.

ZNP said:

Those numbers were for the last 100 years, so the 2 billion was only for the last 100 years.

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2 billion is for today not for the last 100 years. the 20th century had 10 billion births most of which is in the latter half as is expected in exponential growth (so most of which are still living). So for the 20th century alone 2.5 billion is a quarter. if the Pale horse hasn't taken 2.5 billion in the 20th century through whatever its methods are (famine, war, plague, etc...) then if we are using cumulative totals the next 100 years starts trying to play catch up. This is assuming that the pale horse made its quota the pervious 100 years, and the pervious before that.

I haven't checked it, but if there was a quarter of the earth's population taken in any century I suspect there would be strong claims the pale horse has already come. It's a bit of a lose-lose situation for the pale horse because if the pale horse is using cumulative totals than each century he misses leads to exponential loss he needs to make up making his target far greater than 2 billion (the current 25%), but if he hits the target of a quarter of the population for any century then there would be a claim that the pale horseman has already come (which there isn't) so the conclusion is... the pale horse has a steep climb.

The pale horse should give up cumulative totals if that's his aim because it's going to amount to a far greater percentage than 25 to make up all the losses through the centuries and if there was a century where it did reach 25% then why aren't we saying the pale horse has already come? He would be better to focus on the current 25% of the population... so 2 billion is the smaller number for the pale horse.

DamianWarS said:

The pale horse should give up cumulative totals if that's his aim because it's going to amount to a far greater percentage than 25 to make up all the losses through the centuries and if there was a century where it did reach 25% then why aren't we saying the pale horse has already come? He would be better to focus on the current 25% of the population... so 2 billion is the smaller number for the pale horse.

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I get that. But you are interpreting this verse as saying one fourth of the world's population will die. It definitely does not say that. It says "They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth." Right now corona virus clearly has power over one fourth of the Earth. It is going to (or has) kill by sword, famine, and plague and by wild beast. This plague will cause famine and war and we are even seeing wild animals running free in cities. This horse has power to kill over one fourth of the Earth, but it doesn't say that one fourth of the people will be killed.

ZNP said:

I get that. But you are interpreting this verse as saying one fourth of the world's population will die. It definitely does not say that. It says "They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth." Right now corona virus clearly has power over one fourth of the Earth. It is going to (or has) kill by sword, famine, and plague and by wild beast. This plague will cause famine and war and we are even seeing wild animals running free in cities. This horse has power to kill over one fourth of the Earth, but it doesn't say that one fourth of the people will be killed.

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that get's highly subjective then if it's only tethered power that the pale horse wields that he simply doesn't choose to release. We could say any famine, plague, war or wild animal, etc is the pale horse by that logic. I also don't think covid has demonstrated this kind of control either despite the whole world being on lockdown. I don't see famine, war and wild beasts really a part of the negative impact (yet?). Sure I get wild animals may be seen more but does this mean we are "plagued" by them? I get the US and China (and the US and the rest of the world) are not getting along as well but does this mean war is going to break out? and famine? probably the reverse as the earth as more positive environmental effects from this with less cars on the roads or factories running etc.

DamianWarS said:

that get's highly subjective then if it's only tethered power that the pale horse wields that he simply doesn't choose to release. We could say any famine, plague, war or wild animal, etc is the pale horse by that logic. I also don't think covid has demonstrated this kind of control either despite the whole world being on lockdown. I don't see famine, war and wild beasts really a part of the negative impact (yet?). Sure I get wild animals may be seen more but does this mean we are "plagued" by them? I get the US and China (and the US and the rest of the world) are not getting along as well but does this mean war is going to break out? and famine? probably the reverse as the earth as more positive environmental effects from this with less cars on the roads or factories running etc.

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If you don't see famine you aren't paying attention. I read an article that 40% of the dairy industry is with schools and restaurants, with them closed they are dumping their product. Another article on how this plague is affecting the california agriculture. Another one from a truck drive talking about the chaos that he has seen in shipping. The famine follows after the plague, give it a few months. If we won't send masks to Canada I'm pretty sure we won't send food to 3rd world countries.

As for war, give that a few months too. With the crash in the stock market and the oil market revenues to many of these despotic regimes is going to be drastically cut, they only way they prevent revolution is with a constant supply of money. When people are hungry they rebel, just ask the Chinese.

ZNP said:

If you don't see famine you aren't paying attention. I read an article that 40% of the dairy industry is with schools and restaurants, with them closed they are dumping their product. Another article on how this plague is affecting the california agriculture. Another one from a truck drive talking about the chaos that he has seen in shipping. The famine follows after the plague, give it a few months. If we won't send masks to Canada I'm pretty sure we won't send food to 3rd world countries.

As for war, give that a few months too. With the crash in the stock market and the oil market revenues to many of these despotic regimes is going to be drastically cut, they only way they prevent revolution is with a constant supply of money. When people are hungry they rebel, just ask the Chinese.

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You describe a developing crisis with the logistics of some food or with the rising tensions between countries that is only weeks old (specially for the US). Canada certainly isn't going to engage in war with the US and they are also quite vocal about continuing to help other countries (even with PPE) despite their neighbour withdrawing similar support.

Often times the US sees their problems in a vacuum but the rest of the world actually is still getting along and is still sharing. I'm a Canadian in living in Southeast Asia, things are under lockdown as they are everywhere else but I don't see the worst of people coming out but rather the best in people. I'm actually currently working on a project to help supplement loss of income where I live from a Canadian company to people in need. So my end of the spectrum is seeing something else than what you're seeing.

The pale horse is indeed coming one day, covid at best could be the start of a lengthy attack from the pale horse, but it alone, even with the other negative effects it has caused is not enough.

DamianWarS said:

You describe a developing crisis with the logistics of some food or with the rising tensions between countries that is only weeks old (specially for the US). Canada certainly isn't going to engage in war with the US and they are also quite vocal about continuing to help other countries (even with PPE) despite their neighbour withdrawing similar support.

Often times the US sees their problems in a vacuum but the rest of the world actually is still getting along and is still sharing. I'm a Canadian in living in Southeast Asia, things are under lockdown as they are everywhere else but I don't see the worst of people coming out but rather the best in people. I'm actually currently working on a project to help supplement loss of income where I live from a Canadian company to people in need. So my end of the spectrum is seeing something else than what you're seeing.

The pale horse is indeed coming one day, covid at best could be the start of a lengthy attack from the pale horse, but it alone, even with the other negative effects it has caused is not enough.

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Two weeks ago there were many posters on this forum saying that we were making too much of this, that it is no worse than the flu. Two weeks later they all admit they made a mistake.

Give it time, famine follows after plague. Wars follow after famine.

ZNP said:

Two weeks ago there were many posters on this forum saying that we were making too much of this, that it is no worse than the flu. Two weeks later they all admit they made a mistake.

Give it time, famine follows after plague. Wars follow after famine.

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If this is the time for the pale horse then I certainly can't stop it. If it worsen we will know when that happens but there are more optimistic projections than you are claiming.

It looks like a fig tree with a bunch of figs about to be shaken.

Comets Are Breaking Apart in Our Cosmic Backyard, and Astronomers Are Stoked

Comets Are Breaking Apart in Our Cosmic Backyard, and Astronomers Are Stoked

DamianWarS said:

covid won't be that pale horse killing 2 billion people.

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But do you think Covid can lead to the speeding up of a one world government, that paves the way towards the pale horse? The locust madness in Africa is pretty crazy too. A case can be made that the world is coming apart at the seams

Hazelelponi said:

It's representative in number, not literal.

Jeremiah 31:1-4

If anyone is not a "virgin" bride of Christ, they're not going to heaven...

2 Corinthians 11:1-2

We are adopted sons and daughters, to be presented without spot or blemish.. the language of Revelation is the language of all scripture presented in a picture.

in adoption you become a literal son and daughter, not a separate group.

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@Hazelelponi Good quotes, though I don't think the Jeremiah quote is referring to the church.

faroukfarouk said:

@Hazelelponi Good quotes, though I don't think the Jeremiah quote is referring to the church.

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It is.. the church is the church regardless of covanent.. and Jeremiah 31 specifically speaks of the New Covenant, which we are under..

Hazelelponi said:

It is.. the church is the church regardless of covanent.. and Jeremiah 31 specifically speaks of the New Covenant, which we are under..

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Well, I'm dispensational, anyway, post-Acts 2; cf. 1 Corinthians 10.32.