McConnell Agrees Trump Screwed Virus Response.

Kenny'sID said:

Seems to me nothing was forced, I asked for the information, and the information shows the opinion of a few people. So, yeah man, you got me there, but what you got ain't much. lol

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Can't squeeze blood from a turnip, as they say.

Opinion | Has Anyone Found Trump’s Soul? Anyone?

NYT opinion piece.

lasthero said:

It's not about knowing where it is, it's about knowing who has it?

Seriously - are you trying to argue that having a better idea of who does and doesn't have the disease wouldn't make it easier to control it? Because that's a silly argument.

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S Korea tested like crazy, but look how far and fast it spread anyway. I'm not saying we shouldn't test or it's a waste of time to do so. I'm saying it sounds like a lot of folks make it sound like testing is the major answer to keeping it from spreading. It's not and it's shown it's not. Look at the fact that there are a LOT if people running around with it who are either asymptomatic or have such mild cases they wouldn't be tested anyway.

The real answer to slow the spread is social distancing. So yes, it's important to know who has it. But it's certainly not the "oh my gosh we don't have enough tests, the world is coming to an end!" Kind of stuff we keep hearing.

rjs330 said:

S Korea tested like crazy, but look how far and fast it spread anyway.

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It's impossible to know what would've happened if they didn't test as much as they did, but even so, they're doing quite well in South Korea. Per capita, they've had relatively few deaths and cases. Far fewer than we have.

rjs330 said:

. I'm saying it sounds like a lot of folks make it sound like testing is the major answer to keeping it from spreading.

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It certainly helps. No one's claiming it's the end all, but it definitely helps.

Subduction Zone said:

LOL! A Christian magazine claims that Christians are following the rules better than others. Could you find a worse source?

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I have a little experiment for you. I want you to call all the churches in your area and ask them if they are still holding services. If they are ask them how they are doing it and if many people are showing up.

I know if one church that is doing it and having multiple services in a day where they allow only 10 people in the each service and they have them scattered way out. That's one way to practice the distancing. Our church is on line and has drive in church where people stay in their cars. You can't even use the facilities if you attend.

I believe, if your area has a shelter in place order, that the VAST majority of your churches are abiding by it.

This whole nonsensical idea that it's going to be Christians faults for spreading the disease is just Christian bashing.

camille70 said:

There is a whole thread on here several pages long, including a few CF members who say it's unconstitutional and unreasonable for the government to ask people to stop church services until this is under control. Are they the only group? No. Young folks think they are invincible and several others want to just be defiant or don't take it seriously and won't until everyone around them is dropping like flies.

I expect Christians to have wisdom and choose better, so it bothers me when I see the body of Christ behaving recklessly. The bible supports quarantine and isolation for infectious diseases.

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It's up to you to provide evidence of your claim. The "body" is not being reckless. There may be a few that are. There are ALWAYS bad apples in a bushel. But to claim the "body" and make it sound like Christians by and large are not abiding is completely misleading.

I challenge you to contact all your churches in your area and find out just how many are ignoring a no group gathering order. Let us know what you find.

rjs330 said:

I have a little experiment for you. I want you to call all the churches in your area and ask them if they are still holding services. If they are ask them how they are doing it and if many people are showing up.

I know if one church that is doing it and having multiple services in a day where they allow only 10 people in the each service and they have them scattered way out. That's one way to practice the distancing. Our church is on line and has drive in church where people stay in their cars. You can't even use the facilities if you attend.

I believe, if your area has a shelter in place order, that the VAST majority of your churches are abiding by it.

This whole nonsensical idea that it's going to be Christians faults for spreading the disease is just Christian bashing.

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Oh my you got quite a bit wrong. When did I "Christian bash"? I only pointed out that a very biased source was used to support a bogus claim.

But thanks for bringing up a valid concern. The only large group meetings today appear to be occurring at some, and nowhere near a majority, Christian churches in the US. I have heard of similar problems in non-Christian countries as well. The problem here is with some churches, not all. Those do deserved to be "bashed", but not all.

Finding that most churches are closed tells us that most,but not all, are obeying this order as well as strip clubs and casinos.

Kenny'sID said:

As I understood it, Trump said the virus was fake news at first and as much fake news as he has encountered against him, it was perfectly reasonable for me to think him saying that was completely understandable.

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So he also thought all the other countries reporting that people were dying was also fake news?

That moves beyond understandable skepticism and into denial for... reasons?

Trump is unfit to hold office. History will not be kind to him.

lasthero said:

On what do you base this on?

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And what basis do you or others have that Christians by and large are ignoring the orders and having large congregational gatherings any way. Where's the evidence of the claim?

Are some? Sure, there are people who make these kind of decisions from EVERY group. I believe Christians by and large are going to be just as if not more conscientious about following the guidelines and rules on this than the general public.

The claim was made in post 46 that Christians are to blame and want to spread the disease around. I want evidence of that claim. There was no caveat like "some churches are disobeying orders" or "a small minority if churches and Christians are ignoring orders." No there was a blanket statement saying

"It's Churches, other Christians who are failing to abide, or given exemptions so they can be continue to gather and infect themselves and others when they return to work or go shopping or visit their elders because FREEDOM.

Christians are called to love one another and we have folks who want to spread disease to others instead."

It's a bogus and false claim.

Kenny'sID said:

In the end It's way off base to think he would downplay something he knew was a terrible thing like that. What do some of you people think, that he did that on purpose, knowing it was a real problem? Well of course you do.

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It’s not that he does these things on purpose (unless someone has defied him or been President of America while black).

It’s that he is unable consider the position of anyone else but himself. This is part of his NPD.

And he’s your man: a guy who is incapable of empathising with your good self.

This is why supporters of Mr Trump are often referred to as ‘cultist’. People on the outside are aghast and agog that his behaviour is continually awful But his approval just does not budge.

rjs330 said:

And what basis do you or others have that Christians by and large are ignoring the orders and having large congregational gatherings any way. Where's the evidence of the claim?

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I never made that claim. You’re the one making a claim. I’m asking what’s your basis for it.

Kenny'sID said:

Then Trump is or is not educated enough to be president?

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He is easily educated enough to be President. Of America.

rjs330 said:

S Korea tested like crazy, but look how far and fast it spread anyway.

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And from all accounts, South Korea got it under control pretty quickly. Unfortunately, they're having a second wave now, apparently because they relaxed things too soon, but still... knowing is half the battle, and all that.

I'm not saying we shouldn't test or it's a waste of time to do so. I'm saying it sounds like a lot of folks make it sound like testing is the major answer to keeping it from spreading. It's not and it's shown it's not. Look at the fact that there are a LOT if people running around with it who are either asymptomatic or have such mild cases they wouldn't be tested anyway.

The real answer to slow the spread is social distancing. So yes, it's important to know who has it. But it's certainly not the "oh my gosh we don't have enough tests, the world is coming to an end!" Kind of stuff we keep hearing.

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It's a pretty sad commentary on the state of the American medical system; allegedly the best in the world. End of the world? Not hardly. But certainly a sign that getting things "back to normal" maybe shouldn't be the goal...

Allandavid said:

But we aren’t welcome to our own facts........except in TrumpWorld, of course....

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Please let me know when you offer some facts

rjs330 said:

And what basis do you or others have that Christians by and large are ignoring the orders and having large congregational gatherings any way. Where's the evidence of the claim?

Are some? Sure, there are people who make these kind of decisions from EVERY group. I believe Christians by and large are going to be just as if not more conscientious about following the guidelines and rules on this than the general public.

The claim was made in post 46 that Christians are to blame and want to spread the disease around. I want evidence of that claim. There was no caveat like "some churches are disobeying orders" or "a small minority if churches and Christians are ignoring orders." No there was a blanket statement saying

"It's Churches, other Christians who are failing to abide, or given exemptions so they can be continue to gather and infect themselves and others when they return to work or go shopping or visit their elders because FREEDOM.

Christians are called to love one another and we have folks who want to spread disease to others instead."

It's a bogus and false claim.

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Every group has a few bad apples. The correct action is to remove them from the bunch. If you railed against those Christians that are meeting, spreading the disease, and looking like a death cult, I could respect that. I know it’s not all Christians but you seem more upset about people pointing out these bad Christians than stopping them yourself.

The full phrase is a few bad apples spoil the bunch. Instead of tossing the bad apples you are keeping them in the bunch in fighting against the non-Christians and thus spoiling yourself in the process. These bad Christians are a stumbling block to non-Christians and making your job to make believers of all nations harder. I would be upset with them if I were you but go ahead and complain about non-Christians, I’m sure that will convert a lot of souls to Christ while other Christians are showing non-Christians how much of a death cult you really are.

Larnievc said:

This is why supporters of Mr Trump are often referred to as ‘cultist’. People on the outside are aghast and agog that his behaviour is continually awful But his approval just does not budge.

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They treat him the same way the religious treat their deity. Nothing the deity says or does could be bad. All of it is to be defended as being good. It is non-believers who do not understand or just “hate God.” The parallels are frightening. When you aren’t allowed to criticize, you are walking into having to defend an atrocity. On a long enough timeline it is a matter of “when” not “if.”

GreatLakes4Ever said:

They treat him the same way the religious treat their deity. Nothing the deity says or does could be bad. All of it is to be defended as being good. It is non-believers who do not understand or just “hate God.” The parallels are frightening. When you aren’t allowed to criticize, you are walking into having to defend an atrocity. On a long enough timeline it is a matter of “if” not “when.”

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Cultists never think that maybe they’re in a cult until after they have left, which almost never, ever, happens.

Allandavid said:

Testing allows authorities to identify infection sites more comprehensively and to therefore place those in isolation more effectively.

My own country isn’t perfect, but we have one of the highest testing rates in the world and have a strong nationwide isolation process. Surprise, surprise...we have a very low infection rate and a very, very low death rate as a result...

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Perhaps, but the issue is that people who test positive have already been passing the virus around. By the time you get a test you have already infected others.

Allandavid said:

Donald dropped the ball early....and is now blaming the noise from the bleachers for his own clumsiness...

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Do you remember this?

FLASHBACK: Media Downplayed Coronavirus, Called It Less Serious Than Flu