Did God create quickly, or slowly?

nolidad · Apr 4, 2020

ReesePiece23 said:
The universe is 13.7 billions years old. Modern day humans are less than 100k years old - I can't imagine what God was up to for all those years, but I feel humbled and privileged that He thought to create me.

That's about as deep as I dare go on CF. I fear that my assassination is imminent as it is. Lol

The universe cannot be 13.7 b.y.o. You should not fear an assassination. Most of us would love to kill you with kindness! LOL

nolidad · Apr 4, 2020

SkyWriting said:
You can decide. Click on the "creation" words and decide for yourself.
Fast or slow?

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
25 God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds,
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image,
27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
10 And: “In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
13 Surely My own hand founded the earth, and My right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they stand up together.

Some passages indicate instantaneously (where it says and it was so) and some appear to say within the 24 hour period of that creation day!

thomas_t · Apr 5, 2020

ReesePiece23 said:
How can a day exist before the sun did? Time as WE know it is only so because we orbit a star. God's time must surely be gauged differently.

because you can't fathom how a day can exist without the sun... God can, I'm convinced. Just because our time today depends on the sun... the time span given in Genesis 1 ( the first day, second day, third day) before day 4 didn't necessarily vary indeed.
I see no reason to state the days within the 7-days-framework lasted longer/shorter than an actual day.

Mountainmanbob · Apr 5, 2020

Light_Conquers said:
As scripture says God created everything in six days.

That's what I read
and wish to read no more into it.

Don't wish to be taken to task by Him.
As we remember Job.

M-Bob

ReesePiece23 · Apr 5, 2020

nolidad said:
The universe cannot be 13.7 b.y.o. You should not fear an assassination. Most of us would love to kill you with kindness! LOL

The universe is probably timeless. In fact, I'm pretty sure it is. I know I gave a time, but that's only to cover my rear end against my fellow astrology fans. I think time is nothing more than an illusion. Like money.

thomas_t said:
because you can't fathom how a day can exist without the sun... God can, I'm convinced. Just because our time today depends on the sun... the time span given in Genesis 1 ( the first day, second day, third day) before day 4 didn't necessarily vary indeed.
I see no reason to state the days within the 7-days-framework lasted longer/shorter than an actual day.

Time is thoroughly abstract. We swear by it for the sake of consistency - when in essence, it's the most inconsistent thing out there. The universe exists in a quantum state. God, well, He does whatever He wants. Time might not even be a 'thing' to Him, for there was never a time when He didn't exist, nor will there ever be a time when He'll cease to exist. (You could say the same about us if you're that way inclined.)

As you can see, when conversation flows I start to become a little less black and white. Lol

nolidad · Apr 5, 2020

ReesePiece23 said:
The universe is probably timeless. In fact, I'm pretty sure it is. I know I gave a time, but that's only to cover my rear end against my fellow astrology fans. I think time is nothing more than an illusion. Like money.

Time is thoroughly abstract. We swear by it for the sake of consistency - when in essence, it's the most inconsistent thing out there. The universe exists in a quantum state. God, well, He does whatever He wants. Time might not even be a 'thing' to Him, for there was never a time when He didn't exist, nor will there ever be a time when He'll cease to exist. (You could say the same about us if you're that way inclined.)

As you can see, when conversation flows I start to become a little less black and white. Lol

So you believe in eternal matter, space and time then. An uncreated creation, that somehow had a bad case of gas and had a cosmic flatulence and started expanding 137 byago according to evolutionary hypotheses?

ReesePiece23 · Apr 5, 2020

nolidad said:
So you believe in eternal matter, space and time then. An uncreated creation, that somehow had a bad case of gas and had a cosmic flatulence and started expanding 137 byago according to evolutionary hypotheses?

No, no...

What I believe in goes WAY beyond any of that. I believe in a force that contains power several million times greater than every star, galaxy, supernovae, nebula, and black hole in the universe combined. (you can multiply the universe a couple of a million times as well.) That force, of course, being God.

People will say how awesome His power is - but I don't think that they understand that it's not awesome: it's monumentally staggering. We understand a rice grain amount of the infinity that we exist in - we're under the sole care of not just a creator, but an artist, a writer, a perfectionist, a story teller, and a father.

Creationism, is not the answer. Nor is evolution. God is a multifaceted kaleidoscope of colours you've never seen before, shining Red for creation, blue for love, and about another couple of a hundred trillion colours that we don't see.

There was no 'start'. God is a creator not a creation. I believe in infinity - and in everything that word represents. Infinite time, infinite space, infinite possibilities, infinite consciousness.

Infinite life.

CaspianSails · Apr 5, 2020

For me this is all I need to know and understand. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, creator of Heaven and Earth. I don't really need to know how He created only that He did create. From His Word it was created. He said let there be light and there was light. How awesome. Did it take six days? It certainly could have. If you can just speak and then it is, well

SkyWriting said:
You can decide. Click on the "creation" words and decide for yourself.
Fast or slow?

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
25 God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds,
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image,
27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
10 And: “In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
13 Surely My own hand founded the earth, and My right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they stand up together.

CaspianSails · Apr 5, 2020

There was no 'start'. God is a creator not a creation. I believe in infinity - and in everything that word represents. Infinite time, infinite space, infinite possibilities, infinite consciousness.

Infinite life.[/QUOTE]

An interesting and seldom expressed view that deserves much thought.

SkyWriting · Apr 5, 2020

IceJad said:
I can't tell but if we take it word for word the passages close with sequence of the day.

You can decide. Click on the "creation" words and decide for yourself.
Fast or slow?

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Jok · Apr 5, 2020

klutedavid said:
Was Genesis written for ancient people. Written in a format they could understand?

I’m a fan of the analogy where a parent tells a 6 year old child that the stork is bringing them a new brother or sister. Literal accuracy is not the point, but nor does it make sense to conclude that the parents are liars, or wrong, or ignorant.

SkyWriting · Apr 5, 2020

nolidad said:
Some passages indicate instantaneously (where it says and it was so) and some appear to say within the 24 hour period of that creation day!

That's an interesting idea. Let's see:

Genesis 1:9
HEB: וְתֵרָאֶ֖ה הַיַּבָּשָׁ֑ה וַֽיְהִי־ כֵֽן׃
INT: appear the dry and it was so

Genesis 1:11
HEB: עַל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ וַֽיְהִי־ כֵֽן׃
INT: on the earth and it was so

So how is that phrase used?

act (1), administered* (1), allotted (1), am (13), appeared* (1), apply (1), became (85), became his and lived (1), became* (1), become (221), becomes (13), becoming (1), been (90), been done (2), befall (1), befallen (2), being (7), belong (9), belonged (4), belongs (2), brought (1), came (358), came into being (1), came expressly (1), cause (1), caused (1), come (86), come to pass (3), comes (2), comes to pass (1), committed (1), consists (1), continue (6), continued (3), correspond (1), decided* (1), done (4), done* (1), ended* (13), endure (3), event* (1), exhausted (1), existed (3), exists (2), extend (3), extended (3), fall (4), fallen (1), fared (1), fell (1), follow* (1), followed* (1), form (1), gave (1), give (1), go (4), gone (1), grown (1), had (80), had not been (2), had been (1), had belonged (1), had...been (2), happen (11), happened (48), happens (4), has (19), has become (1), has had (1), have (90), have become (6), have...place (1), having (2), held (1), help* (1), indeed (1), keep* (1), lasted (1), lasts (1), lay (2), left (2), lies (1), lived* (1), lives (1), made (3), marry* (4), marrying* (1), numbered (1), occur (7), occurred (3), occurs (3), own (3), placed (1), possessed* (1), present (1), pressed* (1), qualify (2), ran (1), reach (3), reached (1), realized (1), receive (1), received (1), remain (9), remain* (1), remained (6), remained* (1), remains (1), rest (1), rested (1), resulted (1), running (1), seemed* (1), serve (3), show (1), sold (1), surely become (1), surely come (1), surely come to pass (1), sustains (1), take (1), take place (3), taken (1), taken place (1), time (1), took place (4), turn (1), turn* (1), turned (4), use (1), used (3), waited (1), wear (1), went (1).

I would say appeared* (1) could be instant.
am (13) would be even faster.
But all the rest are less than instant.

But a multiple hour time frame is valid, because the same phrase is used here:

Genesis 1:8
HEB: לָֽרָקִ֖יעַ שָׁמָ֑יִם וַֽיְהִי־ עֶ֥רֶב וַֽיְהִי־
INT: the expanse heaven and there was evening and there was

Genesis 1:8
HEB: וַֽיְהִי־ עֶ֥רֶב וַֽיְהִי־ בֹ֖קֶר י֥וֹם
INT: and there was evening and there was morning day

SkyWriting · Apr 5, 2020

Jok said:
I’m a fan of the analogy where a parent tells a 6 year old child that the stork is bringing them a new brother or sister. Literal accuracy is not the point, but nor does it make sense to conclude that the parents are liars, or wrong, or ignorant.

That varies a lot as you and they age.

Jok · Apr 5, 2020

SkyWriting said:
That varies a lot as you and they age.

I wouldn’t call it exactly apples to apples, meaning that the analogy isn’t to protect our innocence like that of the 6 year old, since the Bible clearly doesn’t pull punches, but more of an ignorance analogy to the 6 year old. Striving for literal accurate would totally overshadow the point. For creation to be grasped literally, God might have a minimum requirement to first get into algebra and advanced mathematics that has not yet been invented yet in Moses’ day, then bring them up to speed on Newton’s Laws of motion next, then graduate them to Relativity, start getting into the solution to the philosophical time & space conundrum, and then on top of all that there would be more things that would need to be added since we in 2020 are also very far from tying together the complete theory of everything. This might lead to an absurdity of a 14,000 page book of Genesis.

By contrast, if God skipped all the explanations and He just blurted out the technical means of creation it would probably sound even more confusing (and non-sensical) to all generations, including our current generation. We might still be several breakthroughs away from an accurate account of creation not sounding scientifically flawed.

CaspianSails · Apr 5, 2020

God created, He is eternal and He only shared a small glimpse with mankind as it regards the creation of the earth and life as we know it. Like you I don't see the value in the debate, only that God created all from nothing by the force of His Word alone. In terms of corporations, well God is not a corporation and therefor He is never obligated to share His secrets with us. But I would not compare Him in any way to anything made by man.

nolidad · Apr 6, 2020

ReesePiece23 said:
No, no...

What I believe in goes WAY beyond any of that. I believe in a force that contains power several million times greater than every star, galaxy, supernovae, nebula, and black hole in the universe combined. (you can multiply the universe a couple of a million times as well.) That force, of course, being God.

People will say how awesome His power is - but I don't think that they understand that it's not awesome: it's monumentally staggering. We understand a rice grain amount of the infinity that we exist in - we're under the sole care of not just a creator, but an artist, a writer, a perfectionist, a story teller, and a father.

Creationism, is not the answer. Nor is evolution. God is a multifaceted kaleidoscope of colours you've never seen before, shining Red for creation, blue for love, and about another couple of a hundred trillion colours that we don't see.

There was no 'start'. God is a creator not a creation. I believe in infinity - and in everything that word represents. Infinite time, infinite space, infinite possibilities, infinite consciousness.

Infinite life.

Amazing! And just where did you get this treasure trove of knowledge? You already admitted to a 13.7 billion year universe! and evolution. they are both scientifically impossible but hey what the heck! But where did you find all this mystic knowledge of God?

nolidad · Apr 6, 2020

SkyWriting said:
That's an interesting idea. Let's see:

Genesis 1:9
HEB: וְתֵרָאֶ֖ה הַיַּבָּשָׁ֑ה וַֽיְהִי־ כֵֽן׃
INT: appear the dry and it was so

Genesis 1:11
HEB: עַל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ וַֽיְהִי־ כֵֽן׃
INT: on the earth and it was so

So how is that phrase used?

act (1), administered* (1), allotted (1), am (13), appeared* (1), apply (1), became (85), became his and lived (1), became* (1), become (221), becomes (13), becoming (1), been (90), been done (2), befall (1), befallen (2), being (7), belong (9), belonged (4), belongs (2), brought (1), came (358), came into being (1), came expressly (1), cause (1), caused (1), come (86), come to pass (3), comes (2), comes to pass (1), committed (1), consists (1), continue (6), continued (3), correspond (1), decided* (1), done (4), done* (1), ended* (13), endure (3), event* (1), exhausted (1), existed (3), exists (2), extend (3), extended (3), fall (4), fallen (1), fared (1), fell (1), follow* (1), followed* (1), form (1), gave (1), give (1), go (4), gone (1), grown (1), had (80), had not been (2), had been (1), had belonged (1), had...been (2), happen (11), happened (48), happens (4), has (19), has become (1), has had (1), have (90), have become (6), have...place (1), having (2), held (1), help* (1), indeed (1), keep* (1), lasted (1), lasts (1), lay (2), left (2), lies (1), lived* (1), lives (1), made (3), marry* (4), marrying* (1), numbered (1), occur (7), occurred (3), occurs (3), own (3), placed (1), possessed* (1), present (1), pressed* (1), qualify (2), ran (1), reach (3), reached (1), realized (1), receive (1), received (1), remain (9), remain* (1), remained (6), remained* (1), remains (1), rest (1), rested (1), resulted (1), running (1), seemed* (1), serve (3), show (1), sold (1), surely become (1), surely come (1), surely come to pass (1), sustains (1), take (1), take place (3), taken (1), taken place (1), time (1), took place (4), turn (1), turn* (1), turned (4), use (1), used (3), waited (1), wear (1), went (1).

I would say appeared* (1) could be instant.
am (13) would be even faster.
But all the rest are less than instant.

But a multiple hour time frame is valid, because the same phrase is used here:

Genesis 1:8
HEB: לָֽרָקִ֖יעַ שָׁמָ֑יִם וַֽיְהִי־ עֶ֥רֶב וַֽיְהִי־
INT: the expanse heaven and there was evening and there was

Genesis 1:8
HEB: וַֽיְהִי־ עֶ֥רֶב וַֽיְהִי־ בֹ֖קֶר י֥וֹם
INT: and there was evening and there was morning day

Not a problem with me! I wasn't there so I cannot say absolutely exactly how fast things came to be when God called them forth in their own particular days of creation week.

ReesePiece23 · Apr 6, 2020

nolidad said:
Amazing! And just where did you get this treasure trove of knowledge? You already admitted to a 13.7 billion year universe! and evolution. they are both scientifically impossible but hey what the heck! But where did you find all this mystic knowledge of God?

I used the words "I believe" twice before I'd even finished writing the first line. No where am I making any claims that what I say is knowledge or known fact. (I like to think I'm free to do that once in a while. Isn't faith and belief kinda' the point?)

Anyway, if you're going to pipe up, make sure that you're at least in a position to listen. I can assure you right now, that winning a debate is not something I'm at all interested in. I'm an eternal student, not a master.

nolidad · Apr 6, 2020

ReesePiece23 said:
I used the words "I believe" twice before I'd even finished writing the first line. No where am I making any claims that what I say is knowledge or known fact. (I like to think I'm free to do that once in a while. Isn't faith and belief kinda' the point?)

Anyway, if you're going to pipe up, make sure that you're at least in a position to listen. I can assure you right now, that winning a debate is not something I'm at all interested in. I'm an eternal student, not a master.

Well from post # 2 on this thread written by you you di dnot say believe but declared the universe to be 13.7 billion years old and modern man to be 100k years old. Look up iwhat you said. I am disagreeing with what you simply said.

Now I await how you came to those conclusions of God that you said here:

ReesePiece23 said:
No, no...

What I believe in goes WAY beyond any of that. I believe in a force that contains power several million times greater than every star, galaxy, supernovae, nebula, and black hole in the universe combined. (you can multiply the universe a couple of a million times as well.) That force, of course, being God.

People will say how awesome His power is - but I don't think that they understand that it's not awesome: it's monumentally staggering. We understand a rice grain amount of the infinity that we exist in - we're under the sole care of not just a creator, but an artist, a writer, a perfectionist, a story teller, and a father.

Creationism, is not the answer. Nor is evolution. God is a multifaceted kaleidoscope of colours you've never seen before, shining Red for creation, blue for love, and about another couple of a hundred trillion colours that we don't see.

There was no 'start'. God is a creator not a creation. I believe in infinity - and in everything that word represents. Infinite time, infinite space, infinite possibilities, infinite consciousness.

coffee4u · Apr 6, 2020

I believe God created over 6 literal 24 hour days. I have often wondered why he took so long.

As to the age of the universe or the age of the earth that is a different topic, but the creation week was some thousands of years ago.

Did God create quickly, or slowly?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Blessings Collector

Goat Whisperer

The Peanut Buttery Member.

Well-Known Member

The Peanut Buttery Member.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

The Librarian

Well-Known Member

The Librarian

The Librarian

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

The Peanut Buttery Member.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads