Officials argue idaho stay at home order unconstitutional....

Allandavid · Apr 6, 2020

loveofourlord said:
what is wrong with people.

Stay-at-home order unconstitutional? North Idaho questions the governor

this is seriously annoying me...

As it should annoy you...

Allandavid · Apr 6, 2020

AvilaSurfer said:
We’re becoming sheeple, and losing rights and freedoms right and left. And believe me, I used to think people who talked like that were nuts. Until it happened.

What an incredibly selfish stance...

Allandavid · Apr 6, 2020

charsan said:
I don't think that many people understand how precious freedom is because they were taught that America is either bad or were not taught anything about what the founding fathers understood about freedom and how they were willing to die and sometimes did for freedom. Now the country has become so soft that freedom means little and safety means everything.

Your country is dying by the thousands every few days...

Kentonio · Apr 6, 2020

AvilaSurfer said:
We’re becoming sheeple, and losing rights and freedoms right and left. And believe me, I used to think people who talked like that were nuts. Until it happened.

Losing rights? Ok, which time in US history did people have more rights and freedoms than they do today?

Jonathan Walkerin · Apr 6, 2020

Kentonio said:
Losing rights? Ok, which time in US history did people have more rights and freedoms than they do today?

Probably before the Patriot act of 2001

Patriot Act - Wikipedia

AvilaSurfer · Apr 6, 2020

Kentonio said:
Losing rights? Ok, which time in US history did people have more rights and freedoms than they do today?

You don’t have the right to assemble.

iluvatar5150 · Apr 6, 2020

Jonathan Walkerin said:
Probably before the Patriot act of 2001

Patriot Act - Wikipedia

Gays didn’t have the right to marry then. Corporations didn’t have the right to spend unlimited amounts of money on elections.

TLK Valentine · Apr 6, 2020

Albion said:
Look at the Governor of New York, for instance, who has said he needs ventilators so he's simply going to steal/confiscate them from people and organizations that have them.

I believe the term is "commandeer." If the government can do it regarding real estate (see "eminent domain"), it would stand to reason that they can do it for any property.

These are not hoarders or anything like that; they simply have them. Oh, but he promises to pay for them (an unspecified amount at an unspecified time in the future)...or else return them, used, when he's done with them, Even Steven.

Again, it's the same principle behind eminent domain.

There has to be a point at which a state governor does not have the right to suspend the Constitution merely because--as that governor has explained--he needs them.

This might help:

Can Governments Commandeer Your Property During COVID-19? California Says Yes | Carlton Fields

Litigation to stop such emergency measures under the states’ police powers would be an uphill battle. Courts have long recognized a “public necessity” exception to the Takings Clause in the U.S. Constitution, leaving no recourse for owners whose property is damaged or destroyed for the public use in a time of urgent necessity. Supreme Court precedent requires “an actual emergency with immediate and impending danger” to support a necessity defense. See TrinCo Inv. Co. v. United States, 722 F.3d 1375, 1379 (Fed. Cir. 2013).

I would say that a pandemic certainly qualifies as "an actual emergency with immediate and impending danger" -- as would SCOTUS, no doubt, considering that even they're shut down for the duration.

loveofourlord · Apr 6, 2020

AvilaSurfer said:
You don’t have the right to assemble.

The right to assemble always has limits, maybe during a pandemic is a good time NOT to allow people to spread a deadly disease huh?

Albion · Apr 6, 2020

TLK Valentine said:
If the government can do it regarding real estate (see "eminent domain"), it would stand to reason that they can do it for any property.

Not to defend the seizure of property, allegedly by the right to invoke eminent domain, but the two are not really the same.

Albion · Apr 6, 2020

loveofourlord said:
The right to assemble always has limits, maybe during a pandemic is a good time NOT to allow people to spread a deadly disease huh?

When it is a good time to spread a disease? All my life people have done that and not gotten house arrest as a result.

Maybe the answer should start by you identifying exactly what the limits on the right to assemble are.

TLK Valentine · Apr 6, 2020

Albion said:
Not to defend the seizure of property, allegedly by the right to invoke eminent domain, but the two are not really the same.

True, there are different laws in place regarding them -- but the laws are in place, as evidenced by the link I provided.

TLK Valentine · Apr 6, 2020

Albion said:
When it is a good time to spread a disease? All my life people have done that and not gotten house arrest as a result.

All my life people have traveled to and from Germany.... not so much during WWII, however.

AvilaSurfer · Apr 6, 2020

loveofourlord said:
The right to assemble always has limits, maybe during a pandemic is a good time NOT to allow people to spread a deadly disease huh?

The reasoning is irrelevant. The government has taken away a constitutional right. Just one. So far.

TLK Valentine · Apr 6, 2020

AvilaSurfer said:
The reasoning is irrelevant. The government has taken away a constitutional right. Just one. So far.

Remind me again which Constitutional rights are absolute?

loveofourlord · Apr 6, 2020

AvilaSurfer said:
The reasoning is irrelevant. The government has taken away a constitutional right. Just one. So far.

And? It's one they are allowed to take away, your rights arn't absolute, your right to travel doesn't get to impede other peoples right to happiness, or survival.

loveofourlord · Apr 6, 2020

What I find funny is, all those complaining about rights taken away, while I'm more scared of those NOT taking the rights away, that seem to care more about greed and money and looking good then the lives of those they look after.

Albion · Apr 6, 2020

The "bottom line" to this whole thing is not how we can rejigger or make exceptions, etc. to our liberties, excusing--or not excusing--any temporary changes. It is that there is a terrible danger present that having our liberties will not be normal after the virus isn't such a threat as it is at present.

When liberties are taken away or limited because of some claimed emergency...they often remain taken away for good. No one who is talking casually now about how it's not a big deal will not be saying that after it's too late.

And depriving the people of their freedom in the long run becomes easier than ever for the governors to do after the people have, to some extent, become used to the change. They'll want it back in time, but then it will be (as in Cuba or some other places) much harder to accomplish.

iluvatar5150 · Apr 6, 2020

Albion said:
When liberties are taken away or limited because of some claimed emergency...they often remain taken away for good.

Examples?

TLK Valentine · Apr 6, 2020

Albion said:
The "bottom line" to this whole thing is not how we can rejigger or make exceptions, etc. to our liberties, excusing--or not excusing--any temporary changes. It is that there is a terrible danger present that having our liberties will not be normal after the virus isn't such a threat as it is at present.

When liberties are taken away or limited because of some claimed emergency...they often remain taken away for good. No one who is talking casually now about how it's not a big deal will not be saying that after it's too late.

And depriving the people of their freedom in the long run becomes easier than ever for the governors to do after the people have, to some extent, become used to the change. They'll want it back in time, but then it will be (as in Cuba or some other places) much harder to accomplish.

The real "bottom line" is the still unanswered question: Which of our liberties has ever been absolute and unconditional?

Well? Which ones?

Officials argue idaho stay at home order unconstitutional....

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