What does America even represent at this point

lordjeff

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In reviewing Oliver Stone's doc on The Untold History of the US, he makes some valid points which seem to be common to all of mankind-the need for empire-lands-resources. Let's just say that is innate. Mankind is fallible. On the other hand, everybody wants to come to America-be it for college, opportunity, welfare, better housing. We do have a high standard of living & a lot of that came from American ingenuity. Certain presidents along the way were able to persuade that we were either being threatened or we needed access to resources, what ever. We can't say that the US has actually wanted to conquer territory. But I don't buy into this idea that Americans are or should be altruistic. Just not humanly possible. E.g. for all those preaching the social justice bandwagon why then are the shelves bare of toilet paper. See everyone is stocking up to take care of their own family & that's the reality.
 
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Pommer

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But I don't buy into this idea that Americans are or should be altruistic. Just not humanly possible. E.g. for all those preaching the social justice bandwagon why then are the shelves bare of toilet paper. See everyone is stocking up to take care of their own family & that's the reality.

You seem to imply it’s the Social Justice Bandwagoners who descended like unto locusts, but “reality” suggests that it’s the Randians, “I got MINE, (and probably some of YOURS TOO)!” that emptied the shelves.
 
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iluvatar5150

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We can't say that the US has actually wanted to conquer territory.

The 19th century called, Mexico and Hawaii would like to register their objections to that statement.
 
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Kaon

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In reviewing Oliver Stone's doc on The Untold History of the US, he makes some valid points which seem to be common to all of mankind-the need for empire-lands-resources. Let's just say that is innate. Mankind is fallible. On the other hand, everybody wants to come to America-be it for college, opportunity, welfare, better housing. We do have a high standard of living & a lot of that came from American ingenuity. Certain presidents along the way were able to persuade that we were either being threatened or we needed access to resources, what ever. We can't say that the US has actually wanted to conquer territory. But I don't buy into this idea that Americans are or should be altruistic. Just not humanly possible. E.g. for all those preaching the social justice bandwagon why then are the shelves bare of toilet paper. See everyone is stocking up to take care of their own family & that's the reality.

America is an illusion. The illusion has successfully sold to humans for almost four centuries. Manifest Destiny was a Columbian/American entitlement that categorically took lands because the Columbians felt GOD gave them the right to conquer all land westward.

America is meant to fail, because it's failure is the alarm clock for a new world paradigm. Those who are culturally adherent to USA while ignoring all of the terrible things America did in the past (and does now) will cry when USA collapses, and will run aimlessly because they believed in a delusion at the expense of the lives of others. Many people who "get here" realize the American Dream is a farce - or they ignore enough of reality to truly believe it. No one in America makes it with $1 in their pocket FOB without MASSIVE connections, and possibly messing over a lot of people. People come to America because the illusion is attractive.

We were warned, but we like our systems and comforts too much to confront reality. The people (us) are to blame for our willingness to ignore and deny history in favor of cultural and financial security.

Mankind is fallible because we choose to be. We attack people that claim knowledge, and we wear agnosticism as a badge of intellectual honor - while claiming we want the truth. We think weakness is strength, and we restrict where "knowledge" can come from. Humans are Babylonian (confused) at best.
Humans chose this degeneracy we are in now: we scoff at anything that doesn't fit our manufactured reality while at the same time having the audacity to claim "we never knew".

The "apocalypse" is a consequence of the filth we have amassed as "humans". It is a "release valve" for this plane of existence. We have been through at least two (2) "apocalypse" events, and we still don't care to be better as humans.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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The interesting thing a about the US... it remains the one place everyone else wants to come to.

Still the greatest Country on earth.
Feeding more poor than anybody.
M-Bob
 
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lordjeff

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Arguably as I said mankind is far from perfect, America isn't either but still far above others. Dangers include the military-industrial complex, the willingness to split the population into identity boxes that then become victimization boxes. And all politicians think they can wave a magic wand. Still say the only check the people have on this is term limits. As much as we complain, people just will not vote out a person who has been entrenched forever thinking that somehow they'll sit down & make merry.
 
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Kaon

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Arguably as I said mankind is far from perfect, America isn't either but still far above others. Dangers include the military-industrial complex, the willingness to split the population into identity boxes that then become victimization boxes. And all politicians think they can wave a magic wand. Still say the only check the people have on this is term limits. As much as we complain, people just will not vote out a person who has been entrenched forever thinking that somehow they'll sit down & make merry.

Term limits are no more if they are enforced - the Patriot Act, NDAA and ACA made that a thing of the layperson imagination. This is why It is folly for Americans to act now, because they have allowed it to get to the point where they cannot do anything but play into the hands of their oppressors. If Americans do the same hackneyed things (like protest something they should have protested a decade ago) the authorities will be waiting - we make it too easy for them.

We should have protested when the act was released, but of course back then government take over and a badtardization of the constitution was considered conspiracy theory - so we allowed it to happen while we were continuously warned.

People are predictable and exploitable - and they wear it as a badge of honour. That is why America is in the position it is in now (and, likely the magnitude is not understood simply because we think we are still in some sort of control, or have some sort of say.)

But I know for a FACT Americans want what comes next, because what sane entity would fight so hard for something that would be so offensive to their very existence? You should already be merry...
 
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Larniavc

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From wars started by false flags and motivated by greed and the military-industrial complex, etc., I don't really have much love for the USA governmentally speaking. Coming from the south & midwest, I feel like we are used and talked about like trash by people on the coasts. My college puts international students and rich kids above middle class Americans.

If you come to the US from another country, let's say Mexico, you can say you're Mexican-American. If I move to Mexico, the people won't consider me Mexican, I'd just be American. The same if I went to Japan, Germany, and so on. Basically, anyone with another home country has the option to pick whatever side they want when hard times come. The US is an empire, and Americans who have lived here for generations don't have a true nation. We are disadvantaged in the fact that we can't have our own culture, and people with another homeland will generally take sides with that country over America. I feel like I don't have an identity. Does anyone else feel like this?

By no means am I a 'white nationalist'. I'm not fighting or advocating for a skin color. I just hope thats understood. I'm honestly considering just leaving the US at some point. I'm a reasonable person so I mean no disrespect, I am just trying to figure out exactly what I am fighting for. Thanks.
Guns, God, Drugs and Regime change.
 
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ZNP

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Term limits are no more if they are enforced - the Patriot Act, NDAA and ACA made that a thing of the layperson imagination. This is why It is folly for Americans to act now, because they have allowed it to get to the point where they cannot do anything but play into the hands of their oppressors. If Americans do the same hackneyed things (like protest something they should have protested a decade ago) the authorities will be waiting - we make it too easy for them.

We should have protested when the act was released, but of course back then government take over and a badtardization of the constitution was considered conspiracy theory - so we allowed it to happen while we were continuously warned.

I teach forensics and decided to do a month long study of 911 with my class because it was our best example of forensic engineering and because I figured there would be the best and most thorough forensic analysis. Wow was I wrong.

1. The most critical evidence, the steel from the World Trade Towers was guarded by the US military, forensic engineers were not allowed to examine it, then it was sent to China to be melted down. That steel could have conclusively put to rest any conspiracy theory that the building was brought down by a bomb, or it could have confirmed it. Destroying critical evidence in a murder investigation is a heinous crime.

2. Evidence of thermite was found in the dust and debris around the World Trade Center. This could have been confirmed easily enough if they used a simple machine in the trunks of any ATF agent which would identify explosives. They were prohibited from doing this. (Others did test it which is why there are so many architects and engineers who dispute the official report).

3. In human history there are only 3 steel framed buildings that have ever imploded upon themselves and collapsed into their footprint due to fire. It is so extraordinary that most demolition experts thought such a thing to be impossible. Yet America believes that the two airplanes that struck tower 1 and 2 brought down the three skyscrapers at the World Trade Center (Buildings 1, 2 and 7). Many think that this was because the airplane strike was extraordinary. Actually there have been far more horrific fires in steel framed skyscrapers, fires that burned far longer, without any collapse. This is because steel can withstand the heat from a typical fire.

4. Even so the US has built an incredible center for studying fires. You can recreate a 3 story building which would have been sufficient for studying the floors hit by the plane with the fire. We use this building to determine if our theories on what happened during a fire were correct. One would certainly think that if there ever was a fire worth studying it was 911 but they would be wrong. Once again the theories that this was brought down by a controlled implosion using thermite could have been put to rest by doing a simulation in this building (or on the other hand they could have been confirmed) yet the US never felt the need to do that.

5. I have a close friend who is very highly placed in the US government, so I asked him about this and he sent me a study done by MIT which was the official "confirmation" of their theory. The paper has some higher level math and equations which probably confuse 90% of those that read it. But in essence what MIT said was this "the official theory is highly implausible, but if it is in fact true this is the math that would explain it". The paper also said the best way to confirm this theory would be to test it at the center designed for recreating fires. So the official "confirmation" essentially says we are afraid to directly contradict the government, so if there absurd theory is true this is how it would be explained, yet our math should be tested to truly confirm this theory.

6. Many people don't realize that the longest burning fire in history is 911, it took over a month to put out the fire which was burning at 2,000 degrees, even though jet fuel burns at 500 degrees and should have been completely consumed the day the airplanes struck the building.
 
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Ken Rank

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Is Mexico in Europe now? In no way did I say that people living in a second world country riven with cartel warfare wouldn’t want to come to America, of course they would. Just that the idea that every countries citizens dream of migrating to America is quite out of touch with reality these days.
I don't agree with you, that's all. No big deal.
 
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Ken Rank

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That’s a very persistent idea, I don’t think it’s been true (to the extent it ever was, which is quite limited) for a long time though, maybe since early last century or thereabouts. I’m not sure why it persists. It might be true that some people in some poorer nations aim to get to the US, but that’s a very small percentage of everyone.
To be clear, when I say, "everyone" I am speaking only of those who seek to leave their country. It certainly would't be everyone. :)
 
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Ken Rank

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Really...??
I generally don't engage atheists because I am rarely treated very well by them. But, for the sake of this... when I said "everyone" I meant of those wanting to leave their country. And even then it isn't even "every one of those," but a great deal... this is still, or was before this virus happened (we don't know what we look like coming out) a highly desired place to live.
 
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Kentonio

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I don't agree with you, that's all. No big deal.

Not surprising considering you live in America and I live in Europe. To be fair though if it wasn’t for Trump being in power, I’d happily move to either California or Washington state. It would only ever be temporary though, I enjoy America but I certainly wouldn’t want to grow old there.
 
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ZNP

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Arguably as I said mankind is far from perfect, America isn't either but still far above others. Dangers include the military-industrial complex, the willingness to split the population into identity boxes that then become victimization boxes. And all politicians think they can wave a magic wand. Still say the only check the people have on this is term limits. As much as we complain, people just will not vote out a person who has been entrenched forever thinking that somehow they'll sit down & make merry.
And if these people are merely puppets does it really matter? As long as money is in the election process you give those with more money more of a voice. Having more elections simply gives the puppeteer more power.

Also, a politician who is in their last term is a "lame duck". Much of the power and influence a politician has to work out agreements and compromise are based on the fact that you expect them to be there for 5 or 10 more years.
 
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ZNP

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It used to be, and it still represents an attractive proposition for a lot of people, particularly from the second and third world. For Europeans however, the glamour has faded a lot in recent decades. When I was a kid most teenagers would have loved to move to America. Now it’s a lot, lot less. Bush and now Trump along with the wide spread of information via the internet has shown people a lot of the dark side, especially after the wars in Iraq.
That's the way it is supposed to be. After WWII we helped you guys get back on your feet with the hope and expectation that you would once again become a superpower on the world stage. That is good for world peace and for the world's economy.
 
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Kentonio

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That's the way it is supposed to be. After WWII we helped you guys get back on your feet with the hope and expectation that you would once again become a superpower on the world stage. That is good for world peace and for the world's economy.

That’s what the EU should become, although with the nonsense of Brexit and now Covid hitting the EU hard it’s difficult to see if it’ll actually come to pass anymore.
 
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ZNP

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That’s what the EU should become, although with the nonsense of Brexit and now Covid hitting the EU hard it’s difficult to see if it’ll actually come to pass anymore.
It already has come to pass. By any measure. Years ago you wanted to be like the US, well welcome, now you are.
 
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com7fy8

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I've wondered the same about America. It is certainly at odds internally.
It seems to me how there always have been major problems. But a new one gets the attention.

What you do is what matters.

there was plenty of violence between warring tribes.
oh-h-h . . . and certain ones taking scalps and torturing their enemies, by skinning them alive, I have been told.

But not all have done that. But there are things which get attention.

I'm only trying to think things out for myself, not hate others. Hope thats understood. I just feel that I've been thrown in this group without my choice
Well, if we have been convinced we should have a choice, this can put us in a hard condition . . . if we can't. What we do with things is what matters. There are people who so want choice, that they can kill people in order to have it.

But we can always love.

I just don't see how we can fix these core differences without fragmenting. Not everyone wants to give up their culture.
This world is not God's way, not God's kingdom. And a basic is people of Satan's kingdom will not deny themselves and take up their cross of loving any and all people while being sweetly pleasing to God >

"If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me." (in Luke 9:23)

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

So, because people won't do this, they can not get things right > "without Me you can do nothing." (in John 15:5)

I'm planning on traveling soon
People are right where you are. And the ones who know how to love are not trying to profit off of you being here or traveling. But if you travel, it can be you will be dealing a lot with the ones who want to make money off of your travel. So - - - right where we are, we can be with God and find out how to love with His people. And be His example of this.

God uses example.

And we can share as His family, anywhere.

So, I would say invest in finding out how to love and enjoy being with God's people, right where you are, so then if you travel you can do this wherever you go.
 
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com7fy8

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Jesus had everything going for Him, in Heaven. But what did He do?

But people can have our way of trying to get our own little heavens where we can stay away from people not like us.

And ones can so talk about how they would love to die and be with Jesus. But Jesus did not stay in Heaven, because He loves us. And our Apostle Paul understood he needed to stay here in order to help us >

"For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. Nevertheless, to remain in the flesh is more needful for you." (Philippians 1:23-24)

So, anywhere at any time, God can have us blessing people. And as we do this, ourselves, we discover who else is :)
 
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Kentonio

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It already has come to pass. By any measure. Years ago you wanted to be like the US, well welcome, now you are.

The EU is nowhere near a state yet unfortunately. I actually wish it was. Europe should be unified.
 
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