Is this injustice?

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Charlie24

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Of course it would be.

God's mercy is an act of grace, something we don't deserve.

He wants to give us mercy, but we must meet His conditions.

The reformed want to place all the responsibility on God and not take their own responsibility.

That's why they say, God chooses. It's all on Him not me.

That's not the way it works. You are responsible to meet His conditions.
 
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Hammster

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God's mercy is an act of grace, something we don't deserve.

He wants to give us mercy, but we must meet His conditions.

The reformed want to place all the responsibility on God and not take their own responsibility.

That's why they say, God chooses. It's all on Him not me.

That's not the way it works. You are responsible to meet His conditions.
If it’s conditional, it’s not grace. It’s merit.
 
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concretecamper

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God's mercy is an act of grace, something we don't deserve.

He wants to give us mercy, but we must meet His conditions.

The reformed want to place all the responsibility on God and not take their own responsibility.

That's why they say, God chooses. It's all on Him not me.

That's not the way it works. You are responsible to meet His conditions.
What a great answer!!!
 
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If he extended it to everyone, what wouldn’t we know about Him?

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean, if some were not condemned, then we wouldn't know that God is just? That does make some sense, if that is what you're getting at. But, if at the judgment it is shown that all are justly condemned, and then all receive mercy, then everyone knows exactly what has happened: A just God has extended mercy to the justly condemned, and not arbitrarily. Mind you, I'm not saying that will be the case. I don't know the limits of God's mercy. I'm just thinking through this scenario, which I haven't come across. Great post.
 
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Mark Quayle

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If they repented as a result of His mercy, it wouldn't be genuine repentance.
Now then, does "repentance as a result of His mercy" mean the repentance would be in gratitude for his mercy, but still entirely of their own volition? What about it meaning that God enabled them to repent --indeed CAUSED them to repent, and to deeply desire change. I have learned that my repentance, if it is only my doing, is no better than my "accepting" the Savior. It is GOD who works these things in us. Only he is adequate to make real, permanent change in us.

You are wrong, my friend. If the repentance is only by the will of the repenter, it is not genuine. It is no more real, nor reliable, than he is.

Learn from that the reason so many fear the coming of the Lord, since their conversion they take to be only the work of the flesh. They even find themselves in need of bolstering, and think it is lack of faith to doubt their salvation, since they believe their faith comes from themselves.

Faith is not the act of the will --It is the gift of God, resulting in the act of the will.
 
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Charlie24

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If it’s conditional, it’s not grace. It’s merit.

Paul didn't consider it merit to say, "if you will confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is into salvation."

That is His condition! It's not based on merit, it's based on a soul needing grace, and choosing grace.
 
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Charlie24

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Now then, does "repentance as a result of His mercy" mean the repentance would be in gratitude for his mercy, but still entirely of their own volition? What about it meaning that God enabled them to repent --indeed CAUSED them to repent, and to deeply desire change. I have learned that my repentance, if it is only my doing, is no better than my "accepting" the Savior. It is GOD who works these things in us. Only he is adequate to make real, permanent change in us.

You are wrong, my friend. If the repentance is only by the will of the repenter, it is not genuine. It is no more real, nor reliable, than he is.

Learn from that the reason so many fear the coming of the Lord, since their conversion they take to be only the work of the flesh. They even find themselves in need of bolstering, and think it is lack of faith to doubt their salvation, since they believe their faith comes from themselves.

Faith is not the act of the will --It is the gift of God, resulting in the act of the will.

When man hears the Gospel of Jesus Christ, he has to make a choice to accept or reject that Gospel, there is no in between.

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

It's not God's choice, it's yours!
 
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Paul didn't consider it merit to say, "if you will confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is into salvation."

That is His condition! It's not based on merit, it's based on a soul needing grace, and choosing grace.

That is not a condition of salvation, that is simply a statement of guarantee. Paul is not saying, "In order to be saved, you must confess and believe." He is saying, "If you confess and believe, then you can know you will be saved." Keep in mind that salvation, for Paul, is a future event. What we are being saved from is the future judgement of condemnation. Confessing and believing is not what will save us. God's grace secured through Jesus Christ is what will save us.

If you use that passage as a condition for salvation then you effectively eliminate all kinds of people who are not in a position to confess and believe, such as virtually everyone in the Old Testament. And if you make an exception for them, then your condition of salvation falls apart.
 
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Charlie24

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That is not a condition of salvation, that is simply a statement of guarantee. Paul is not saying, "In order to be saved, you must confess and believe." He is saying, "If you confess and believe, then you can know you will be saved." Keep in mind that salvation, for Paul, is a future event. What we are being saved from is the future judgement of condemnation. Confessing and believing is not what will save us. God's grace secured through Jesus Christ is what will save us.

If you use that passage as a condition for salvation then you effectively eliminate all kinds of people who are not in a position to confess and believe, such as virtually everyone in the Old Testament. And if you make an exception for them, then your condition of salvation falls apart.

I'm thinking that if you knew the difference between the old and new covenants you wouldn't say such things.

You would also know that for Paul salvation is here and now. As long as we hold on to our faith we are saved.
 
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Mark Quayle

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When man hears the Gospel of Jesus Christ, he has to make a choice to accept or reject that Gospel, there is no in between.

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

It's not God's choice, it's yours!

I agree there is no in between. That is why I say it must be God's doing. I am full of "in-between" I do not deny that man chooses, but I do say that only God can make man choose with any integrity. If God was to reveal to any of us how silly, flippant, treacherous we are apart from him, we would see it, and beg to die if we can't have his strength.

The Bible is clear that God has chosen his elect from the foundation of the world. I.e. LONG before we were born, or knew anything. It is only the presumptuous logic of man who desires to hold to the notion of absolute spontaneity from within himself, not needing God for making a valid choice for good. Well, apart from God, "within me there dwells no good thing." Christ says, "Apart from me you can do nothing".
 
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Charlie24

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I agree there is no in between. That is why I say it must be God's doing. I am full of "in-between" I do not deny that man chooses, but I do say that only God can make man choose with any integrity. If God was to reveal to any of us how silly, flippant, treacherous we are apart from him, we would see it, and beg to die if we can't have his strength.

The Bible is clear that God has chosen his elect from the foundation of the world. I.e. LONG before we were born, or knew anything. It is only the presumptuous logic of man who desires to hold to the notion of absolute spontaneity from within himself, not needing God for making a valid choice for good. Well, apart from God, "within me there dwells no good thing." Christ says, "Apart from me you can do nothing".

You are quoting Paul and I agree that there is no good thing inside me either.

When the Gospel is heard the Holy Spirit gives the faith to believe, He makes it real, there is no doubt that what you just heard is truth.

This is when man must choose, not God.

We are not very far apart in belief my friend!
 
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What if none repented?
Luke 13:1-5 (KJV) There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
 
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