Why do Many Christians Ignore YHWH's Moedim?

HARK! · Apr 4, 2020

expos4ever said:
And what does a literal translation give?:

And this day hath become to you a memorial, and ye have kept it a feast to Jehovah to your generations; -- a statute age-during; ye keep it a feast

Not forever, but for the appropriate "age".

Considering that the Moedim will be kept in the Millennial Kingdom; do you really want to make an argument that the age has ended?

I'm all ears.

visionary · Apr 4, 2020

SeventyOne said:
I wasn't interjecting anything. It was an example of how the original statement Paul made was generic, in that it could be applied to both those observing and those not observing.

NOT is not found and the idea that it is applicable is not available from the verse.

Der Alte · Apr 4, 2020

HARK! said:
Again, Paul was speaking to those who were, coming out of Paganism.
Don't let your Pagan family and friends judge you as you observe Sabbaths in obedience to YHWH.

Your conclusion is wrong.
[Col 2:16 KJV] 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
Pagan religious groups might have had holy days and they might have had some ritual associated with the moon but only Judaism had the "Sabbath." Therefore this entire passage refers to Jewish practices not pagan. Paul told the Colossians to not be judged in meat, drink, holy days, new moons and the Sabbath primarily Judaism but any source.

HARK! · Apr 4, 2020

nolidad said:
Simply? Because the feasts and festivals were ordered for the descendants of Abraham Isaac and Jacob or Jews! Gentriles are not Jews

Who are those descendants? Is it genetic, spiritual...?

How does your assertion relate to this passage?

They answered and say to Him, "Our father is Abraham." Jesus answered them, "If you are children of Abraham, did you ever do the works of Abraham?

(CLV) Jn 8:40
Yet now you are seeking to kill Me, a Man Who has spoken to you the truth which I hear from God. This Abraham does not do.

(CLV) Jn 8:41
Yet you are doing the works of your father." They say to Him, "We were not born o of prostitution! One Father have we, God!"

(CLV) Jn 8:42
Jesus, then, said to them, "If God were your Father, you would have loved Me. For out of God I came forth and am arriving. For neither have I come of Myself, but He commissions Me.

(CLV) Jn 8:43
Wherefore do you not know My speech? Seeing that you can not hear My word.

(CLV) Jn 8:44
You are of your father, the Adversary, and the desires of your father you are wanting to |do. He was a man-killer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, for truth is not in him. Whenever he may be speaking a lie, he is speaking o of his own, for he is a liar, and the father of it.

nolidad said:
these festivals are part of teh Mosaic Law and the law has been fulfilled and rendered void!

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of THE LAW to fall.

nolidad said:
People are free to keep them if they choose, but until the Messianic Kingdom, they are not for the Church in general

Do you have anything to support this opinion?

HARK! · Apr 4, 2020

Der Alter said:
What makes a translation literal? I have found that what most folks consider "literal" is a version which supports their assumptions/presuppositions.That "age during" is nonsensical. The only place the phrase can be found is in certain Bible translations.
.....Does "Olam" and "Ad" mean eternal or do they mean "age." I could quote the definition from Brown, Driver, Briggs Hebrew lexicon but you would probably say it is biased. I have been at this forum for over 2 decades. Since I am retired and have nothing but free time I decided a long time ago to see if the Bible defines these words.
.....Here are 36 verses where “Olam” is defined by other adjectives or adjectival phrases as “eternal.” While “olam” does refer to things which are not eternal, there are no verses where “olam” is defined as anything other than “eternal” as in these verses. Feel free to try to prove me wrong.

[1]Isaiah 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, [לעולם] and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
עולם/olam is paired with “shall not be abolished” It is defined as “eternal.”

[2]Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: [לעולם] nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
עולם/olam is paired with “nothing can be put to it nor anything taken from it” “Olam” is defined as “eternal.”

[3]Isaiah 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, [לעולם] and my righteousness shall not be abolished
עולם/olam is paired with “shall not be abolished.” “Olam” is defined as eternal.

[4-5]Isaiah 55:13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting [עולם] sign that shall not be cut off. Isaiah 56:5
עולם/olam is paired with “shall not be cut off.” “Olam” is defined as eternal.

[6]Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting [עולם] covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
עולם/olam is paired with “shall not depart from me.” “Olam” is defined as eternal.

[7]Jeremiah 50:5 They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant [עולם] that shall not be forgotten.
עולם/olam is paired with “shall not be forgotten.” “Olam” is defined as eternal.

[8]Psalms 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, [ינחם] Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
עולם/olam is paired with “will not repent.” “Olam” is defined as eternal

[9]Psalms 125:1 A Song of degrees. They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.[לעולם]
עולם/olam is paired with “cannot be removed.” “Olam” is defined as eternal.

[10]Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever,[עלם] and this is my memorial unto all generations.
[11]Exodus 30:21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever [עולם] to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.
[12] Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual [עולם] covenant.
[13] Exodus 40:15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting [עולם] priesthood throughout their generations.
[14] Leviticus 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever [עולם] throughout your generations:
[15] Leviticus 17:7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever [עולם] unto them throughout their generations.
[16-22] Leviticus 17:7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever [עולם] unto them throughout their generations.Lev 23:21, 24:3, 23:41, Num 10:8, Num 15:15, 18:23,
[23] Psalms 33:11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, [לעולם] the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
[24-29] Psalms 49:11 Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue for ever, [לעולם] and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names. Psalms 79:13, Psalms 89:1, 89:4, Psalms 102:12, Psalms 106:31
[30] Psalms 135:13 Thy name, O LORD, endureth for ever; [לעולם] and thy memorial, O LORD, throughout all generations.
[31-32]Psalms 145:13 Thy kingdom is an everlasting [לעולם] kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations. Psa 146:10
[33]Isaiah 34:17 And he hath cast the lot for them, and his hand hath divided it unto them by line: they shall possess it for ever, [עולם] from generation to generation shall they dwell therein.
.[34]Isaiah 51:8 For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, [לעולם] and my salvation from generation to generation.
[35]Lamentations 5:19 Thou, O LORD, remainest for ever; [לעולם] thy throne from generation to generation.
[36]Joel 3:20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, [לעולם] and Jerusalem from generation to generation.
In these verses עולם is paired with “throughout all generations”/”unto all generations.” “Olam is defined as “eternal.

I have some good notes on this subject; but I just added this post to my notes.

Good work!

HARK! · Apr 4, 2020

pescador said:
Why shouldn't they? I celebrate the Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, not the calendar.

The father asks you to celebrate him in his way. Why not follow his way? Why not follow Yahshua?

SwordmanJr · Apr 4, 2020

HARK! said:
In the 5th century, Socrates Scholasticus Church History book 5 states the fact that until Constantine imposed Dies Solis (Sungod Day) on humanity, most assemblies and believers across the world at that time still kept The Sabbath even as late as 5 centuries later after Yahshua! He clearly knew that this “Sunday” worship was based in Rome on “the account of some ancient tradition”!

"Nor is there less variation in regard to religious assemblies. For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this."

What does that mean.....to "keep the Sabbath?" How does one do that? Who is qualified to judge another on the basis of Sabbaths, given that Paul stated we do not need to concern ourselves with the words of those who do judge on that basis?

Jr

HARK! · Apr 4, 2020

Der Alter said:
In the mid 90s due to my job I had to move from the bay area to Orange county California. When I had cable installed the installer had a very distinct speaking voice. My wife never bashful said "You should use your voice for the glory of God." He said, "I do. I am the cantor at my synagogue." I had to explain to my wife what that was. A 15 minute cable install turned in to a 45 minute Christian fellowship.
His night job he was the radio voice for the San Diego Chargers. He knew that his salvation was based on faith in Jesus Christ but as a Jew he still observed all the feasts and festivals. Not as an obligation of the law but a celebration of his Jewish heritage.

Thus it is with all that YHWH commands us.

From YHWH, from Decalogue:

(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

From Yahshua:

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

From Yahshua's disciple:

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

SwordmanJr · Apr 4, 2020

HARK! said:
Again, Paul was speaking to those who were, coming out of Paganism.

Don't let your Pagan family and friends judge you as you observe Sabbaths in obedience to YHWH.

You must think Paul was incapable of saying what he meant, therefore the need for someone to come along and school us all on what the Greek actually says. Adding what isn't there is not an honest handling of the Bible.

Jr

SwordmanJr · Apr 4, 2020

HARK! said:
They were zealous for the Talmud. Yahshua rebuked them.

The context of Acts 21 gives us no such indication. Where do you get this stuff that isn't in the text nor the context?

The ger toshav (sojourner) are restricted from keeping Pesach for example, unless he is circumcised. Circumcision is an outward sign of the covenant of Abraham. The ger toshav were given only basic laws that would enable them to share table fellowship with Israel. They were to then, as it is written, hear the Torah every Sabbath, to learn the ways of Israel.

Another inconsequential in relation to us Gentiles. I eagerly look to the day when the natural branch is grafted back in.

These people were pushing the Talmud onto the new converts, ger toshav. Abraham came to faith before thew outward signs of that faith were manifested. This is Torah.

I hope you don't mind being more expansive in your meaning.

Jr

HARK! · Apr 4, 2020

Hammster said:
No, we just need to realize that we don’t need the types and shadows when we have Him who they point to. Christ has finished His work, He sat at the right hand of the Father, and we are there with Him.

It seems that Paul would disagree with you:

(CLV) Col 2:17
which are a shadow of those things which are impending—yet the body is the Christ's.

HARK! · Apr 4, 2020

Hammster said:
You really messed that up. You might want to go back and study and see how it ties in with the previous three chapters. Then you won’t make these glaring errors.

Done, You can find my work here:

Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 1
Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 2
Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 3
Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 4
Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 5
Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 6
Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 7

HARK! · Apr 4, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
Conversely, your ignorance of the Bible is not a license to impose man-made burdens upon your brethren.

Are you asserting that the Torah is a fabrication of man?

HARK! · Apr 4, 2020

dqhall said:
I am not Jewish. Israel persecuted Christians. Many Jews hated Christianity. I do not need to celebrate your Jewish holidays or traditions.

They aren't my appointments. They're YHWH's; and I give no honor to Holly.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they/ shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

dqhall said:
Why don’t Jews observe Christmas and Easter?

(CLV) Dt 12:3
You will tear down their altars and break their monuments; their Asherah poles you shall burn with fire, and the carvings of their elohim you shall hack down; thus you will destroy their name from that place.
(CLV) Dt 12:4
Not so shall you do to Yahweh your Elohim.

(CLV) Jer 10:2
Thus says Yahweh: The way of the nations, do not learn, And by the signs of the heavens, do not be dismayed, Though the nations are being dismayed by them.
(CLV) Jer 10:3
Indeed concerning the statutes of the peoples, it all is vanity, For one cuts it down, a tree from the wildwood, The work of an artificer's hands with an adz;
(CLV) Jer 10:4
With silver and with gold he makes it lovely; With nails and with hammers they fasten it, so that it cannot quaver.

HARK! · Apr 4, 2020

dqhall said:
Check Acts 15. We are not bound to the curse of the law, sin offerings, false genealogies, made up stories etc.

Acts 15

20 but to write an epistle to them to be abstaining from ceremonial pollution with idols, and prostitution, and what is strangled, and blood."

Where did he get this? it sounds like it came from the Torah.

Oh. Here we go!

21 For Moses, from ancient generations, city by city, has those who are heralding him, being read on every sabbath in the synagogues."

Hmmm...James is talking about the ger toshav. What exactly did YHWH have to say about the ger toshav?

(CLV) Ac 15:20
but to write an epistle to them to be abstaining from ceremonial pollution with idols, and prostitution, and what is strangled, and blood.

Leviticus 17
7 No longer shall they sacrifice their sacrifices to hairy goat-demons after whom they have been prostituting. An eonian statute shall this become for them throughout their generations. 8 To them you shall say:Any man from the house of Israel or from the sojourners who sojourn in your midst who should offer an ascent offering or a sacrifice 9 and not bring it to the opening of the tent of appointment to offer it to Yahweh, that man will be cut off from his kinsmen. 10 As for any man from the house of Israel and from the sojourners sojourning in your midst who should eat any blood, I will set My face against the soul eating blood, and I will cut him off from among his people, 11 for the soul of the flesh, it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make a propitiatory shelter over your souls on the altar; for the blood, in the soul it makes a propitiatory shelter. 12 Therefore I say to the sons of Israel:No soul at all of you shall eat blood; nor shall the sojourner sojourning in your midst eat blood. 13 Any man from the sons of Israel and from the sojourners sojourning in your midst who hunt a game animal or a flyer which may be eaten will pour out its blood and cover it with soil, 14 for the soul of all flesh is its blood; as its soul is it. So I said to the sons of Israel:The blood of any flesh you shall not eat, for the soul of all flesh, it is its blood. Everyone eating it shall be cut off.

visionary · Apr 4, 2020

Der Alter said:
Your conclusion is wrong.
[Col 2:16 KJV] 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
Pagan religious groups might have had holy days and they might have had some ritual associated with the moon but only Judaism had the "Sabbath." Therefore this entire passage refers to Jewish practices not pagan. Paul told the Colossians to not be judged in meat, drink, holy days, new moons and the Sabbath primarily Judaism but any source.

Read what he said again.. People coming out of Paganism, into Messiah Yeshua's Judaism were not to be nitpikked by others as they learn. Those who had been doing their whole lives, were working on details, Paul was telling the initiates that are just learning to get the basics and not let the "experts' burden you with details like tithing the mints.

HARK! · Apr 4, 2020

pescador said:
What does that mean in English?

Shabbat shalom means Sabbath peace.

SkyWriting · Apr 4, 2020

HARK! said:
King James Bible
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

NKJV
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

King James Bible
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

You are skipping the passage saying it is obsolete
and has been replaced built on better promises.

HARK! · Apr 4, 2020

SkyWriting said:
The Old Testament is obsolete.

Get real.

The TaNaK hasn't even fully unfolded.

HARK! · Apr 4, 2020

SkyWriting said:
Paul never studied under Jesus.
He invented his own unique credentials.

If you don't trust Paul; that's OK so long as you trust in Yahshua.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of THE LAW to fall.

Why do Many Christians Ignore YHWH's Moedim?

שמע

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

This is me about 1 yr. old.

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Double-edged Sword only

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Double-edged Sword only

Double-edged Sword only

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Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

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The Librarian

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